Are the Fans here who want Campbell back in ASAP serious?

[Ghost of]

Thats not even a fair statement McPimpin. Your telling me that two or three extra years whether on the bench or starting means nothing? Thats just inaccurate. Yeah i follow football and ive heard time and time again how Romo sits to pee does well because he's been around, he had the opportunity to be on winning teams that had good quarterback play.

As for the other statement that Jason had all americans around him and thats why he won, go look up some you tube videos of jason's college career. He has a pro arm, he is an intellegent qb.

I didn't make that statement about All Americas around him, so I'll let that poster answer that.

BUT, your point about his success at other levels proves my point in the first part of your response. Romo sits to pee got to see good QB play? Huh? Bledsoe? Bledsoe wasn't the worst QB around but he got pulled for a reason. Romo sits to pee went on to almost immediately play very well, then faded a bit at the end.

Time on the bench may be helpful but in this league you PLAY. At some point, there are things you have to learn and SHOW by PLAYING. Romo sits to pee sat on the bench because he was a late or undrafted pickup. Campbell was a first rounder who 'won at every level.' Well, why the hell is campbell behind Romo sits to pee's progress, behind Derek Anderson's progression, etc if he is the more highly touted and successful guy who ALSO sat on the bench of a year and a half?!?!

That's the fact. I'm not giving up on Campbell but it's ridiculously stupid to suggest that we should bench a QB who went 4-0 (assuming we do) for a guy who lost his last several games INCLUDING choking away several games by not 1)Connecting with Lloyd vs. GB 2) Overthrowing Moss vs. Dallas and throwing a pick 3)Throwing two picks vs. Tampa while driving

Nope, sorry. You play to win the game, not to hope someone gets experience and if we win out, you reward the guy who got you there and not HOPE that the guy who DIDNT works out.

[BoondockSkin]

Maybe. But would Campbells decision making process have thrown the ball to those places? Or would he have possibly taken a sack or forced the ball into an INT? Having the arm strength means nothing if you don't make the right decision, and quickly.

I totally agree with you. However, I think that its too "every play is different" in the NFL, so both of our postulations may have proven false if the QBs were flip-flopped.

That notwithstanding, I'm under the impression that we judge campbell's decision making negatively based upon a few (albeit glaring) bad decisions/throws. Maybe I'm really, really wearing the glasses, but TC and JCs reads seemed to be similar with one major difference: Collins is quite good at getting the quick ball/hot read out (Betts' TD last week, Yoder's long gain this week) whereas Jason hesitates.

Am I way off?

[Papabear]

My dad said it best. Why not have Campbell play until they reach the redzone and then put Todd in to get the offense a score.

OH SNAP!

[Ghost of]

TC wins against a lousy/awful Bears team and a Gints team that dropped what...nearly 10 passes...and TC is somehow playing magnificant ball? gimme a break...his LONE advantage is that he appears to protect the ball better. his passing percentage...as we saw last night.....is horrendous.

Excuses, excuses. I've seen TC complete plays and show poise in the pocket (odd how the pressure just isn't as bad now, eh?) and step up that JC had started to slowly lose.

As for passing percentage, you really count last night and think that directly translates?

So ELi (for whatever his flaws) is really the record setter for incompletions on his own merit, nothing to do with the wind?

Those DROPS, fan62, some of them at least, were due to the wind also. There's a reason the passing offense of both teams looked so bad. But the Skins, oddly enough, made the plays they needed to through the air.

Jason's 5 victories. Like that momentous 16-13 vs. an epic-awful Miami team? requiring OT?

The games that MATTERED, the games that would have put this team in position to cruise instead of exert itself beyond physical norms WERE the games he helped blow.

Did he help put together some drives? Certainly. But one wonders if these would have been necessary but for his propensity to put the team behind the 8-ball with turnovers and poor and inaccruate passes.

Our receivers simply do not run after the catch with him at QB (other than TEs.) They have to jump and stretch and twist for his balls, even intermediate and short passes.

[ttr77]

I totally agree with you. However, I think that its too "every play is different" in the NFL, so both of our postulations may have proven false if the QBs were flip-flopped.

Agreed. Just as many of our postulations about whether TC or JC is better for this team right now will probably be proven false as well. No one knows.

Either way, 'postulation' is a fun word to use

[thehogs]

)

Campbell hasn't won a game in at least a month and Collins as won 2 games(back to back) against playoff teams from last year!

Well, yes. Unfortunately, both teams totally suck at this point. Given all our on and off-field problems and we still somehow beat these teams?! I could only watch the first half last night before heading to bed at 3am before work a few hours later. I thought the Giants were awful. The Bears last week were awful. The Dallas game against Philly earlier in the evening - man, how could Dullass be 12-1 (as they were pre game). They got out of jail last week and were dreadful last night. As for the Eagles-Giants game last week - man! how bad is this division?!

Yeah, I'll take the win as you always do but this division is deteriorating as the season goes on. Lets go with the old timer for the future, he beats crap teams.

[gortiz]

I could never understand why everyone thinks Campbell is just going to be so good. He's smart, has a big arm, he has a good demeanor for a QB, he's mobile, and he works hard.

he had all-americans all around him at Auburn, and even then did not run a pro-style passing attack. So are you only supposed to pick players that didn't have all americans around them? I'm sure there are some good players in the NFL that didn't have a "pro-style passing attack" :doh:

he has ZERO fourth quarter comebacks. he has lost a second half lead numerous times. So you can put this all on him? It has nothign to do with play calling, bad defense, drop balls, and fumbles from players around him? YOU LOST ALL CREDITBIITY HERE ...

Tony Romo sits to pee has as much experience as Campbell does- and 9 out of 10 times outplays him. I just don't see how anyone can be confident that JC will ever become a top QB in the NFL Romo sits to pee is a diamond in the rough, a one of kind, and complete blind luck find for the Cowboys, HORRIBLE EXAMPLE

[Papabear]

Excuses, excuses. I've seen TC complete plays and show poise in the pocket (odd how the pressure just isn't as bad now, eh?) and step up that JC had started to slowly lose.

As for passing percentage, you really count last night and think that directly translates?

So ELi (for whatever his flaws) is really the record setter for incompletions on his own merit, nothing to do with the wind?

Those DROPS, fan62, some of them at least, were due to the wind also. There's a reason the passing offense of both teams looked so bad. But the Skins, oddly enough, made the plays they needed to through the air.

Jason's 5 victories. Like that momentous 16-13 vs. an epic-awful Miami team? requiring OT?

The games that MATTERED, the games that would have put this team in position to cruise instead of exert itself beyond physical norms WERE the games he helped blow.

Did he help put together some drives? Certainly. But one wonders if these would have been necessary but for his propensity to put the team behind the 8-ball with turnovers and poor and inaccruate passes.

Our receivers simply do not run after the catch with him at QB (other than TEs.) They have to jump and stretch and twist for his balls, even intermediate and short passes.

But he's young and black. Isnt that the reason JC is our starting QB and all the players like him?

[ttr77]

That notwithstanding, I'm under the impression that we judge campbell's decision making negatively based upon a few (albeit glaring) bad decisions/throws. Maybe I'm really, really wearing the glasses, but TC and JCs reads seemed to be similar with one major difference: Collins is quite good at getting the quick ball/hot read out (Betts' TD last week, Yoder's long gain this week) whereas Jason hesitates.

Am I way off?

All I know, from a personal standpoint, is that I had a decidedly stronger feeling of doom when Jason went back to pass than I do now with Todd.

If nothing else, perhaps the QB change will add some years onto my football watching life.

[Ghost of]

Maybe I'm really, really wearing the glasses, but TC and JCs reads seemed to be similar with one major difference: Collins is quite good at getting the quick ball/hot read out (Betts' TD last week, Yoder's long gain this week) whereas Jason hesitates.

Am I way off?

I don't think you're way off NECESSARILY. The problem is, I think TC's reads are quicker, which is of enormous importance in any offense but especially this one. Also, he's more decisive and he has a quicker release.

The pass to Betts was an example of how IMPORTANT it is to read the blitz or find that outlet fast. If we don't score there, the game is different. Maybe that's why we struggle to score TDs.

To me, that doesn't mean we're giving up on Jason. But I think it would be a mistake to take a guy who knows what he's doing, even if he is physically limited, out of the game for someone who doesn't or waits for guys to 'be open' and then throws the ball high, not allowing them to run for yardage.

And honestly, last night, we played the best pass rushing team in the league. Did TC's lack of mobility really matter or show itself to any great degree?

So how important is it?

[dfbovey]

I think the main difference between the 2 is that Romo sits to pee was an UDFA, meaning his initial contract was much more cap-friendly. Campbell, as a 1st round pick, really needs to start earning his salary earlier in his career. Sitting him for 3 years was not an option.

That point wouldn't have anything to do with my point that Romo sits to pee has more experience. Whether the two years were spent on the bench learning or actually playing... he's been in the league longer and is further ahead in his development because of it.

I understand that Campbell didn't have that luxury due to draft status and the money he made comparatively. But it's still an advantage Romo sits to pee had and it's a big reason why he's successful now.

[SearchHorizon]

JC's record would have been even better had it not been for the miscues by others (e.g., Green Bay) that directly led to losses. JC lost 2 games with late picks - games we would noit have been in, btw, without drives he engineered.

No question. But the complaint is that good/great quarterbacks would have pulled out wins for us.

TC wins against a lousy/awful Bears team and a Gints team that dropped what...nearly 10 passes...and TC is somehow playing magnificant ball? gimme a break...his LONE advantage is that he appears to protect the ball better. his passing percentage...as we saw last night.....is horrendous.

You know very well this is not an accurate characterization of the Giants game.

If your point is that TC's praise is premature, you are probably right. It is just that what I have seen of him confirms my suspicion TC is a good QB.

[InsaneBoost]

Man I don't give a damn, I just want to win.

A lot of people gave Campbell to much of a hype, he's a decent QB, but I don't think he'll be anything close to what he was in college.

Sorry.

I wouldn't put Campbell in till next year, whether we make the playoff's or not.

He needs to be healthy.

He CAN'T pull a Doug Williams this year, impossible.

[ttr77]

But it's still an advantage Romo sits to pee had and it's a big reason why he's successful now.

Maybe. Or maybe he's just a better QB in an offensive scheme that appears be be better suited to his strengths.

[BoondockSkin]

Agreed. Just as many of our postulations about whether TC or JC is better for this team right now will probably be proven false as well. No one knows.

Either way, 'postulation' is a fun word to use

I know, it makes the work day go by faster if I think I'm smart.

[Skinsfan1311]

I think we keep Todd in as long as he is still playing well. He seems to be playing much better the Jason right now, its just the truth. He is more accurate, gets the ball off faster, and doesn't fumble every time he is hit.

Jason is definately the starter for next year.

But the point of an NFL team is to win games, not get a young quaterback practice...

Agreed.

Thank you for putting into words, exactly what I was thinking.

JC will be our starter, but as long as Collins is hot, keep him in.

[ross3909]

Good post but I want our kid back out there.

There is a reason that Collins has been a reserve for 10 years.

Do you think its a conspiracy against him?

He has done a great job coming in for us. JC is our QB though.

I have heard this knock on Collins many times now and I dont buy it. When you are a QB in this league that is not a big name first rounder with his first team, the best way to get on the field and get a shot is to be a back up. As a rookie, TC didnt light the world on fire and was replaced in Buffalo. Then he went to KC and backed up TGreen which never missed a game due to injury...until the year that TC left. Is it possible that TC is a quality QB that was hidden and unnoticed on the KC depth chart until he came here? I think it is, and if he leads us to the playoffs it will be us who discovered him. It is rare to find a diamond in the rough, when other teams find them we kick the dirt and say, why couldn't we find someone like that...(enter the preferred knock on our scouting/GM setup). However, when we get one everyone is quick to dismiss it and say, it must be a fluke, and we should get rid of him. I say lets get behind this guy and see what we have before we dismiss it. Seriously, what do we have to loose?

[Ghost of]

I do, and as an educated football fan I understand that there is a benefit to having a quarterback sit and learn the way Romo sits to pee did. As a fan who follows football closely, I understand that it gives Romo sits to pee an advantage and puts him much further ahead of Campbell from a developmental standpoint.

Were you actually attempting to be condescending?

No, I was responding to your condescension.

Romo sits to pee, as pointed out a multitude of times, had more to learn and more adapt to. Simply put, not as much was ever expected of him--he was UNDRAFTED. Campbell was a first round pick. Exactly how long is he expected to sit as opposed to playing and learning?

And he's ahead of Jason's development after a similar number of starts.

All of this is irrelevant to the question of whether you pull Collins if we win out and go to the playoffs. The answer is that you're a moron if you pull the guy who went 4-0 for a guy known for producing turnovers when it matters most.

Check NFL.com. His two minute drive and 4th quarter stats are NOT good.

[Passizle]

While I do not want JC back before he is ready...

Since when is 8 out of 25 for 166 "winning a game for us"? He produce 0 pints. Thats ZERO, ZILCH, NADA, GOOSEGG. How do we win with no points?

People really need to look at things objectively. There is no one sole single reason for our losses this year. Some games people think JC chocked. they tend to forget that he helped our offense get a good amount of points. Why does the defense get a free pass?

JC gets blamed for fumble form getting jacked up on his blind side. If you were looking the other way, and I punched you from behind in the back of the head, would you be able hold on to your coffee... let alone remain concious?

Collins is an interim manager. Trust me... if our run game gets stuffed next week, WE WILL LOSE TO MINNY. I'll bet my avatar on it!

[dfbovey]

Maybe. Or maybe he's just a better QB in an offensive scheme that appears be be better suited to his strengths.

We can go through a list of maybe or what if scenarios. Right now there's no doubt that Romo sits to pee is the better QB. But he also sat and learned for 3 full seasons. If he was better from the get go he wouldn't have been sitting.

[ttr77]

Trust me... if our run game gets stuffed next week, WE WILL LOSE TO MINNY. I'll bet my avatar on it!

Well, the Skins only had 33 yards rushing against Chicago, and they were able to win. So TC is able to win without an effective running game.

The bottom line is that they are 2-0 under TC, with all other things being pretty equal. TC should keep playing as long as they are winning,

[skinfan2k]

TC had poor 2 min execution too. We failed twice inside the redzone yesterday.

I guess that means TC is still a better qb that JC lol

[Ghost of]

We can go through a list of maybe or what if scenarios. Right now there's no doubt that Romo sits to pee is the better QB. But he also sat and learned for 3 full seasons. If he was better from the get go he wouldn't have been sitting.

McNair sat for a long time too, it's because he played at Alcorn State and was not in as structured a system as he'd need to succeed in the NFL.

There's a difference between sitting because you are BEHIND the curve and sitting to 'get experience' and you know it.

Put Romo sits to pee aside.

Answer me Derek Anderson with Cleveland. He came out in the same year as Campbell.

[BAFGA]

'Harder to learn' does not mean 'better'. The Skins may have the hardest offense in the world to learn, but the Cowboys offense is 10x better right now.

Personnel has a lot to do with it in terms of Dallas vs. Redskins.

Dallas has an O-Line up until recently has been injury-free. The Redskins O-Line is patchwork at best.

Dallas has a QB who I can't stand, but does have some ability to get out of trouble and find open receivers. The Redskins QB situation is a young QB learning on the job, gets hurt, and the old crusty vet comes in and wins a couple of games.

Dallas has big receivers who have speed and can get open. The Redskin receiving corps is small, fast, and has a case of the injuries.

Dallas has a TE who is one of the best in the league, at best equal to Cooley.

I would take Portis/Betts over Barber/Jones, though. I think Barber/Jones might have better numbers is the fact that their O-Line has been healthy.

Add in a bunch of luck and some favorable calls by referees, and you have a formula for a 12-2 record. As far as the Redskins? Horrible luck, bad calls from refs, and a 7-7 record.

[skinfan2k]

There is still a problem that exists even with TC in the game. We dont throw between the hashes. This stems from Brunell, Campbell and TC.

The Yoder pass, the 3 moss catches near the sidelines.