Teller Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 Well, Gore DID have more votes than Bush. Mmmm...No. But, "don't...stop...thinking about yesterday!" :laugh: Seriously, there's a reason Gore didn't want the whole state re-counted. Why don't ya tell me what that is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 There's this pervasive sense that Rove cheated. He and the Republican Congress of Bush's first term and a half were a very mean, vindictive lot. You were with them or you weren't even American. I think it was that notion amongst all the other slime and mud that made him stand up as a villian. Jim Baker was disliked also, but he was also very well respected. There was something in the philosophy of Rove that the END was all that mattered which just grated. Unfortunately, you see that same quality throughout this government, though a lot of the worst culprits have been forced out or have left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teller Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 But didn't he also help lose the Congress for the GOP? Sounds like a major defeat to me. Mmmmkay....:laugh: I gotta go to bed, but this has been fun. At least it was a much needed break from the grief of losing our boy. Y'all take care. Hopefully I'll see most of you Sunday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS Posted November 28, 2007 Author Share Posted November 28, 2007 eh, if that were true, Hillary would have run.I know a lot of Democrats believed that 2004 would be easy, but the best-funded candidate who wanted the White House more than anything (Hillary) and the next-best-funded candidate who had a personal stake in defeating Bush (Gore) didn't even try ... in fact, Hillary basically gambled on Bush winning reelection so she could run in '08. The reason the Democrats had such weak candidates in '04 was because the best political people knew that it was going to be hard to defeat an incumbent wartime President with gay marriage amendments all over state ballots. The evidence, as 'hog points out, is on the scoreboard. It's sad that you believe Hillary represents the best politition among the Democrats.... I personally like what Will Rogers had to say on the subject....... "I don't belong to any organized political party, I'm a Democrat". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS Posted November 28, 2007 Author Share Posted November 28, 2007 Mmmm...No.But, "don't...stop...thinking about yesterday!" :laugh: Seriously, there's a reason Gore didn't want the whole state re-counted. Why don't ya tell me what that is? Gore did have more votes nationally than Bush, but still lost the electorial college vote. Gore didn't end up with more votes than Bush in Florida after all the recounts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_cavalierman Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 Mmmm...No.But, "don't...stop...thinking about yesterday!" :laugh: Seriously, there's a reason Gore didn't want the whole state re-counted. Why don't ya tell me what that is? http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0876793.html Popular Vote totals in 2000 GW Bush: 50,456,002 Al Gore: 50,999,897 Gotta hate those pesky facts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 Gore did have more votes nationally than Bush, but still lost the electorial college vote. Gore didn't end up with more votes than Bush in Florida after all the recounts. Denial isnt just a river in Egypt right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexey Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 Dems vs Reps is like herding cats vs herding idiots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjTj Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 It's sad that you believe Hillary represents the best politition among the Democrats....If not the best (which can only be determined at election time), she is certainly the most calculating, and it was pretty obvious that she didn't consider 2004 to be a cakewalk election.I personally like what Will Rogers had to say on the subject....... "I don't belong to any organized political party, I'm a Democrat".I do agree though that the Democratic Party never has a real overarching strategy like Burgold described ... there will probably never be a Democratic Karl Rove. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IHOPSkins Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 Well, Gore DID have more votes than Bush. Not in Florida... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butterfly_ballot Despite the Liberal media depressing the Republican Vote by declaring Gore a winner BEFORE POLLING PLACES CLOSED Hell Gore lost his HOME STATE...what does That tell you? Gore = Loser.....TWICE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 Gore also didnt win a mythical "popular vote". Because there is no such thing. What he can claim is that of the votes counted nationwide, he had more. That ignores though the fact that MILLIONS of votes go uncounted in states where they would not affect the outcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baculus Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 You have GOT to be kidding me. Karl Rove is actually saying that Congress pushed Bush to war? What a moron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baculus Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 About the Gore issue, there were some very fishy things that did happen, including a sudden switch of 45,000 votes from the Gore camp, as well a whole lot of Diebold issues. I have made previous posts about this issue, including a webpage that provided a copy of the Diebold GEMS tabulation program and how easy it is to chance the vote count. It was VERY easy to change the vote total count and "hack" an election in the Diebold GEMS program. Some of these tabulation machines were also connected by DUN modems, so they were not isolated devices, and nevermind the issues that related to memory cards that were used by these same machines. The means for voting fraud was present - there is no way that anyone can say that fraud couldn't have happened, because the systems simply were not secure, which violated election laws in several states. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IHOPSkins Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 About the Gore issue, there were some very fishy things that did happen, including a sudden switch of 45,000 votes from the Gore camp, as well a whole lot of Diebold issues. I have made previous posts about this issue, including a webpage that provided a copy of the Diebold GEMS tabulation program and how easy it is to chance the vote count.It was VERY easy to change the vote total count and "hack" an election in the Diebold GEMS program. Some of these tabulation machines were also connected by DUN modems, so they were not isolated devices, and nevermind the issues that related to memory cards that were used by these same machines. The means for voting fraud was present - there is no way that anyone can say that fraud couldn't have happened, because the systems simply were not secure, which violated election laws in several states. Baculus The Democrats always fight against COMMON SENSE reform for voter Fraud.... 1) Eliminating List members that do not vote in concurrent elections 2) Providing PROOF of Citizenship at the polls and they fight for legislation that INCREASES the chance of Fraud.... 1) Motor Voter (get a Drivers Licenses and you can vote too...funny how the Dems are pushing for Illegals to have Drivers Licenses) 2) Same day registration When the Dems start making it HARDER for voter Fraud to take place.....I'll start to listen to them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headexplode Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 Denial isnt just a river in Egypt right? Scraping the bottom of the barrell, huh? (Oh, ****, I used a cliche to answer a cliche. Isn't that a kick in the teeth? ****. I did it again. Damned if you do, damned if you don't . . . .goddammit.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_cavalierman Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 Contrary to popular republican belief Democrats who are not political hacks do not hate Karl Rove. Karl Rove did his job well in 2000 and 2004, but the democrats turned the table by capitilizing on Rove's mistakes and forcing him to stay busy defending himself in the CIA leak investigation during the congressional elections. Rove saying that Congress pushed the whitehouse into this war is comical at best and straight craziness at worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS Posted November 28, 2007 Author Share Posted November 28, 2007 Denial isnt just a river in Egypt right? I think what I said was factually accurate. Gore did get more votes than his rival but lost the electorial college vote, thus the election. Gore did not end up winning the Florida recount however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IHOPSkins Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 I think what I said was factually accurate. Gore did get more votes than his rival but lost the electorial college vote, thus the election. Gore did not end up winning the Florida recount however. And again I need to point out that REPUBLICAN VOTE COUNT was suppressed by Liberal Media reports of a Gore Victory The FLORIDA Polls had not closed yet and Dan Ratherbelying said Florida won it for Gore.....funny that "At approximately 7:50 pm EST on election day, 10 minutes before the polls closed in the largely Republican Florida panhandle, some television news networks declared that Gore had carried Florida's 25 electoral votes" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._presidential_election,_2000 How many republicans didn't even vote because of Dans Lies? (in Florida and the US at Large?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS Posted November 28, 2007 Author Share Posted November 28, 2007 If not the best (which can only be determined at election time), she is certainly the most calculating, and it was pretty obvious that she didn't consider 2004 to be a cakewalk election. I don't think that's accurate. I think Hillary's greatest weakness is her inexperience. That's now after she won re-election to the senate. In 2004 her inexperience was even more glaring, only ever having run and won in one election. I think Hillary's calculations had more to do with building her own experience and legitamacy than fear of Bush. Even so Hillary will be one of the weakest resumed Presidents ever if she is elected. If she wins she will need to thank George Bush and his unpopular policies as much or more than her own political instincts. It won't be as Bill Clinton achieved it. Taking on a President who was riding high in the polls only to be crushed by a superior campagne back in 1992. I do agree though that the Democratic Party never has a real overarching strategy like Burgold described ... there will probably never be a Democratic Karl Rove. Karl Rove is the flavor of the month. He won two Presidencial elections so he's a genus. Fact is the Democrates have had several multi time winners. James Carvel comes to mind. He sat out the 2004 elections. I also think Bill Clinton himself is a very gifted political strategist. I do believe Kerry's campagn manager in 2004 was over matched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_cavalierman Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 I think what I said was factually accurate. Gore did get more votes than his rival but lost the electorial college vote, thus the election. Gore did not end up winning the Florida recount however. You were accurate....according to the statement made (popular vote) he is in denial. http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0876793.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS Posted November 28, 2007 Author Share Posted November 28, 2007 Gore also didnt win a mythical "popular vote". Because there is no such thing. What he can claim is that of the votes counted nationwide, he had more. That ignores though the fact that MILLIONS of votes go uncounted in states where they would not affect the outcome. I've never heard that before.. What state doesn't count all their votes? Kilmer, I think the strongest argument in support of Bush is that he legitamately won the election as envisioned by the founding fathers. That he lost the national popular vote is trivia, and doesn't reflect the legitamacy of his election victory. Remember Kennedy almost lost the popular vote to Nixon. Benjamin Harrison(1888), Rutherford B. Hayes(1876), and Abraham Lincoln(1860) lost the popular vote, but won the electorial college just like Bush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS Posted November 28, 2007 Author Share Posted November 28, 2007 About the Gore issue, there were some very fishy things that did happen, including a sudden switch of 45,000 votes from the Gore camp, as well a whole lot of Diebold issues. I have made previous posts about this issue, including a webpage that provided a copy of the Diebold GEMS tabulation program and how easy it is to chance the vote count.It was VERY easy to change the vote total count and "hack" an election in the Diebold GEMS program. Some of these tabulation machines were also connected by DUN modems, so they were not isolated devices, and nevermind the issues that related to memory cards that were used by these same machines. The means for voting fraud was present - there is no way that anyone can say that fraud couldn't have happened, because the systems simply were not secure, which violated election laws in several states. Not only did the Diebold systems seem to allow voter fraud, we know the Republcians under Rove styfled voter turn out in minority areas. Remember everybody who shared a last name of a convicted fellon in Florida minority districts were denied the right to vote. Johnstons, Jeffersons etc.... That was a brilliant tactic which was ruled unconstitutionable by the coarts in 2004. Remember when Republicans sent letters to all the registered Democrates and then tried to block all the voters who's letters were returned in Ohio? Courts blocked them, but it's still amazing the Republicans tried it. Both Florida and Ohio seem to be rampant with voter fraud attempts and accusations. I would argue though that Democrates have famously employed similar tactics in winning elections in the past. Kennedy and Johnson come to mind. It's hard for Democrates to complain that the Republicans have just gotten better at voter fraud lately!!... Now from an American point of view it definitely is something to be worried about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toe Jam Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 Rove still has his head up Bush's ass. This would explain why he's an idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IHOPSkins Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 ....... I would argue though that Democrates have famously employed similar tactics in winning elections in the past...... In the present also......? I think Gore tried to suppress the Military Vote in Florida And Florida has a large military contingent due to favorable tax policy http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1571/is_47_16/ai_72275397 "Every vote should count" .....except the military and the heavy republican districts that Gore DIDN'T want a recount in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headexplode Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 In the present also......?I think Gore tried to suppress the Military Vote in Florida And Florida has a large military contingent due to favorable tax policy http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1571/is_47_16/ai_72275397 "Every vote should count" .....except the military and the heavy republican districts that Gore DIDN'T want a recount in Well, duh. I wouldn't want to count votes that weren't for me, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.