Is the NFL a Quarterback's League?

[BKSkinsFan]

Would Brady be as good as he is without Moss and Welker? That one has been proven to be true as he's won Superbowls with less talent at WR.

However, would he be as great without the protection he's had pretty much his entire career? The Colts were able to get to him pretty well actually, and when that happened, he looked human once again. Even a great QB will not look good with poor to mediocre offensive line play.

Jeff Garcia was mentioned here, did anyone see him play in Cleveland? He was constantly getting hammered and running for his life on a weekly basis. There is no way to play consistently well when you are under constant pressure.

Sure it is a QB's league, he gets the spotlight when things are going well, but more people need to realize that the o-line are the unsung heroes, which is why QBs and RBs have always bought gifts to show their appreciation to these guys. This actually does seem to be something GMs are realizing even more as well, seeing that left tackles and great run blocking guards are getting larger and larger contracts.

[Bryan81]

Yes the NFL is a QB League. Just look at all the rules that protect the QB.

[Oldfan]

Because 50% of his supporting cast were not any good? Because he was not all that good either? who knows, probably a bit of both in fairness. His "2nd coming" with the Eagles was more about the talent of the other 10 people on that team than Garcia. I would think at least half the starting QB's would have put up his numbers had they been inserted into his position there.

Why is this thread specifically about Garcia anyway?

If you read the OP again, more carefully, you will discover that you are essentially agreeing with me and that this thread is not about jeff Garcia.

[50yrSKINSfan]

Can you say with a straight face that you can't imagine Romo sits to pee, Brady or Favre folding under pressure?

Our QB did fold and the diff is that the good QB can move in the pocket when he sences pressure and make a play. Watch BIG BEN or Romo sits to pee. They are mobile in the pocket. That is what you should be. As far as saying the NFL is a QB league it def is. Just look at the top 6 or 7 teams and you will see they have one thing in common. A very good QB. You also cant compair the old QB's with todays as those old QB's did not play with todays passing rules that favor the passing game. Sonny, Marino, Bradshaw would all be better today. Cheers.

[zoony]

No doubt the quarterback is the most important position in football. But I don't know if any quarterback can singlehandedly lift a team from mediocrity to contender. Other pieces have to be in place. The classic case is Sonny Jurgensen, who would throw up 35 points a game and watch as his D would give up 48.

A side argument is how much a quarterback makes his team look better vs. how much a team makes the quarterback look better. Roethlisberger is an interesting case. His rookie year the consensus was that his role was simply to not make mistakes and let the team carry him. Now he seems to have emerged as a top tier quarterback who can make plays on his own. But would he have the same individual success now on a less talented team than the current Steelers? How would Big Ben fare behind center in Atlanta?

This argument comes up often in these debates, and while it is true, I think it misses the point.

I'll use an analogy with commercial airlines. Obviously, the most important part of running a successful airline is landing your plane on the runway, and hiring pilots who can successfuly take off and land, attendants who know the safety routine, and baggage handlers who can lift 50 lbs, etc. Nobody is denying that these are all very, very important, perhaps even most important.

BUT... those things are a given. ALL airlines do that. The playing field is level in that regard.

What seperates one experience from another from airline to airline are by and large the little things, ceterus peribus. Customer service, legroom, rewards programs, etc.

Now... would anyone with a straight face say that frequent flyer miles are more important than landing your planes on the runway? Absolutely not! However... in an industry where parity rules and the playing field is level, ironically enough it is these little things which customers base their buying decisions on.

So... is QB more important than having 21 other guys who can do their job, perform as a team, and execute a scheme on Sunday?

Of course not. But this is the NFL. Professional football. Teams are ON this level. Parity rules.

The difference nowadays? Having that guy behind center.

-There's a reason that teams draft a QB every year tops in the draft.

-There's a reason why the Colts, Eagles, Patriots, Packers, and Cowboys locked up their signal callers to long-term deals worth hundreds of millions.

-There's a reason that good QB's, by and large, aren't available thru Free Agency. (with the exception of Drew Brees, largely because San Diego has an idiot driving the ship)

-And there's a reason why the Washington Redskins haven't found success in the salary cap era, despite bringing in successful coaches, pro bowl corners, pro bowl linebackers, running backs, wide receivers, etc.

-There's a reason why HOF coaches look terrible without a franchise QB behind center. (and not just Gibbs.)

-There's a reason why once every 5 years a team makes it on defense... but EVERY year playoffs are filled with franchise QBs.

...

[Oldfan]

Would Brady be as good as he is without Moss and Welker? That one has been proven to be true as he's won Superbowls with less talent at WR.

Except for the foregoing quote, your opinion seems to agree with mine as expressed in my Post One.

In the above, though, you are establishing the premise that all Super Bowl winners are equal. I don't think that's true. This Pats team is outperforming previous teams, and adding to Brady's super reputation, even if it falters somewhere and doesn't win the Super bowl.

[eljeasel]

League officials want it to be a QB league, or at least a stars league.

Every monday night you hear "Watch Brett Favre take on Ben Rothlisberger" or something like "Can Matt Leinart find a way to get past Brian Urlacher and the Bears."

Which just seems silly to me. Everyone kinda knows whos on which team, why hype it up as a one on one competition then later call football the "ultimate team game"?

[Loxley]

If you read the OP again, more carefully, you will discover that you are essentially agreeing with me and that this thread is not about jeff Garcia.

That is how I read it, you asked a question and answered it and then asked everyone else. I understood the point about Garcia but didnt know if there was something specific about him.

A better example might be "Why is Anderson lighting it up this year when he was fair to average last year". The 2 major changes are line upgrades and a new OC. Chudzinsky (sp?) has had a profound effect over there.

I do not think that the league is ALL about the QB but he accounts for at least 50% of the effectiveness of a team.

[CGSKINS]

Campbell folded like a cheap suit at the end of the 4th quarter. I love the guy, but facts are facts.

Who here has doubts that Romo sits to pee, Brady, Manning, or Favre would NOT have marched their team up the field for a score?

JC's O-line folded like a cheap suit.

And if joe gibbs had a time out left he would have challenged that pass play to K Mac, because that looked like a catch to me. And that was a pass that was made in the clutch.

Dont forget, JC drove us the skins down the field against the Giants only to have his coaches let him down.

We can go all day with " IF and BUTS". Bottom line we should not have been in those situations. We need to put teams away early.

[Oldfan]

As far as saying the NFL is a QB league it def is. Just look at the top 6 or 7 teams and you will see they have one thing in common. A very good QB.

Would those "very good" QBs look very good if they weren't playing for one of the top six or seven teams?

You are trying to prove your point by assuming your conclusion to be true.

[zoony]

JC Oline folded like a cheap suit.

I agree, it's the Oline's fault

-David Carr

[Oldfan]

I do not think that the league is ALL about the QB but he accounts for at least 50% of the effectiveness of a team.

Defense 50%, Offense 50%

If the QB is 50%, his ten teammates on the offense and his coaches are at zero in value.

You need to revise your estimate

[Geoff_K]

Of all the positions to have a superstar, QB is the one most teams would probably take.

A good passer with the ability to quickly read the D is a dangerous player.

[eljeasel]

A better example might be "Why is Anderson lighting it up this year when he was fair to average last year". The 2 major changes are line upgrades and a new OC. Chudzinsky (sp?) has had a profound effect over there.

And Jamal Lewis

[BKSkinsFan]

Except for the foregoing quote, your opinion seems to agree with mine as expressed in my Post One.

In the above, though, you are establishing the premise that all Super Bowl winners are equal. I don't think that's true. This Pats team is outperforming previous teams, and adding to Brady's super reputation, even if it falters somewhere and doesn't win the Super bowl.

I'll conceed to that point, he is obviously putting up ridiculous numbers with his new WRs, I could never argue against that. My point was more to show that he has been very successful with average WRs.

I do believe you could make a case that even with the additions at WR, if he is not given the time in the pocket he's been getting, there offense looks much more average.

They have the stars aligned in New England, a future hall of fame pocket passer, an incredible pass blocking offensive line, great playmakers at WR, and an offensive system designed to maximize their strengths.

You take the WRs away and replace them with average guys, they've shown to still be capable of putting up solid numbers. You take Brady away, I'm sure you'd see a huge drop in production. You take the o-line away and insert average guys, you will also see a huge drop in production.

[zoony]

What's the highest paid position in the NFL?

Or, let's look at it another way.

5 best records in the NFL

Colts

Steelers

Patriots

Cowboys

Packers

Who is the highest-paid player on each team? And is there a trend?

So is it really a 50-50 split? And is QB really just 11/50 of the offense? If so, it should be no problem pointing that out when examining a teams' payroll.

[eljeasel]

New England's success is due to a great and healthy O line, a great defense, and patience from Brady.

Add in 3 wideouts and you got yourself a squad

[voicekiller]

The real question is...Is the NFL a healthy OLine league? Without a good OLine none of these QB's would have the success they are having

[Oldfan]

I'll use an analogy with commercial airlines...

So... is QB more important than having 21 other guys who can do their job, perform as a team, and execute a scheme on Sunday?

Of course not. But this is the NFL. Professional football. Teams are ON this level. Parity rules.

The difference nowadays? Having that guy behind center.

If "parity" meant that all NFL teams were exactly equal in other respects, aside from the QB position, this analogy of your would make sense. Obviously, that isn't what it means.

Do most first round QBs fail to make the grade because their teams made poor selections or because they were selected by poor teams? This isn't a question that can be answered by producing stats.

I have it this way: In order to win consistently in the NFL, a grade B quarterback needs better coaching and a better supporting cast: offense, defense, and special teams than a grade A quarterback. But, grading QBs is not as simple as looking at his stats and listening to the guys in the broadcast booth.

[Dan T.]

This argument comes up often in these debates, and while it is true, I think it misses the point.

I'll use an analogy with commercial airlines. Obviously, the most important part of running a successful airline is landing your plane on the runway, and hiring pilots who can successfuly take off and land, attendants who know the safety routine, and baggage handlers who can lift 50 lbs, etc. Nobody is denying that these are all very, very important, perhaps even most important.

BUT... those things are a given. ALL airlines do that. The playing field is level in that regard.

What seperates one experience from another from airline to airline are by and large the little things, ceterus peribus. Customer service, legroom, rewards programs, etc.

Now... would anyone with a straight face say that frequent flyer miles are more important than landing your planes on the runway? Absolutely not! However... in an industry where parity rules and the playing field is level, ironically enough it is these little things which customers base their buying decisions on.

So... is QB more important than having 21 other guys who can do their job, perform as a team, and execute a scheme on Sunday?

Of course not. But this is the NFL. Professional football. Teams are ON this level. Parity rules.

[Etc.]

...

Zoony, I don't disagree with this. In today's NFL, it seems like there's a bunch of teams, right behind the elite 2 or 3, that are pretty equal week to week. Small things determine wins and losses among these teams fighting for playoff spots. Those are the teams where a good quarterback can raise them above the pack. Green Bay is a good example this year. Favre's presence has lifted them from the pack.

My earlier point was that even a top tier quarterback can't bring a bottom dwelling team up to contention. But a good quarterback can help a decent team rise to contention.

[zoony]

Do most first round QBs fail to make the grade because their teams made poor selections or because they were selected by poor teams? This isn't a question that can be answered by producing stats.

A good QB will shine eventually, no matter the situation.

We heard it for years about David Carr... that if he could "just get an oline" he would be a premier QB

And on the flip side, you see guys like Tony Romo sits to pee and Tom Brady take the reigns of a struggling team, and all of a sudden they win ball games.

On a side note, funny how protection was an issue with Bledsoe, but it dissapeared magically when Romo sits to pee started taking snaps. Protection has 70% to do with a QB's release. But you still hear people say... "Gee, the Cowboy's Oline sure is playing a lot better! :dunce: "

We saw the Colts pretty much have their way with the Patriots offensive line. But for the most part, Brady was able to get the ball out before the rush could get there. The Patriots have the most over-rated line in the history of the NFL. Their QB has perhaps the fastest release of any QB to ever play.

[Oldfan]

What's the highest paid position in the NFL?

Or, let's look at it another way.

5 best records in the NFL

Colts

Steelers

Patriots

Cowboys

Packers

Who is the highest-paid player on each team? And is there a trend?

So is it really a 50-50 split? And is QB really just 11/50 of the offense? If so, it should be no problem pointing that out when examining a teams' payroll.

Your opponents in this little debate have already granted that the QB position has more value than the others on the team. Why are you making arguments to prove this?

[zoony]

Your opponents in this little debate have already granted that the QB position has more value than the others on the team. Why are you making arguments to prove this?

I thought you told someone to revise their numbers.

What are your numbers? Just curious. And if its NOT a QB's league, why would you say that the QB position has the most value on a team, yet continue to argue otherwise?

[zoony]

Tell you what Oldfan. We'll play NFL GM.

I'll build my team around Tom Brady. You can have, say... David Carr.

We'll fill the remaining positions on each other's teams with money left over.

Now I want you to go on record... who wins more games?

[Oldfan]

We heard it for years about David Carr... that if he could "just get an oline" he would be a premier QB

And on the flip side, you see guys like Tony Romo sits to pee and Tom Brady take the reigns of a struggling team, and all of a sudden they win ball games.

Here, you are exagerrating a molehill of evidence in trying to prove your point. In order to even roughly isolate the QB's performance from the other factors, you need to use the same QB over a reasonable length of time to increase the sample size.

We saw the Colts pretty much have their way with the Patriots offensive line. But for the most part, Brady was able to get the ball out before the rush could get there. The Patriots have the most over-rated line in the history of the NFL. Their QB has perhaps the fastest release of any QB to ever play.

The QB and RB can make any O line look better. And the O line can make any RB or QB look better. No argument here.