Kilmer17 Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 Very true. Never take the breath test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 If the police have reasonable suspicion -- which for a cop can mean a lie about you driving in an unsafe manner -- they can have you take the test. If you refuse, you will be charged with refusal. That means you must be taken to face the magistrate. No. You don't have to take it. Yes. You are off the roads if you don't. Either way, it works for me. I'm married to a lawyer, and I've had my share of pull overs, both as the driver and as the passenger. Trust me, I've played the angles :0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Murphaaay Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 Is a blood and urine test really gonna prove that the person is under the influence? These test will more than likely reveal that a particular drug is in their system, but will it tell them that the person was on that drug when they were pulled over, exactly? Some test may be able to, but i'm unsure about it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yomar Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 they could use the Twinkie test Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yomar Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phishhead Posted February 1, 2003 Share Posted February 1, 2003 Those twinkie pics are scary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarhog Posted February 1, 2003 Share Posted February 1, 2003 Originally posted by IAMBG There are already drugs out there for sale. Anyone can get them and easily afford them. I think we could rule out the availability issue as an incentive for the more impressionable, say, cowpie fans, as Yomar put it. WHile there could be a surge in new addicts at first, I think we would find the number of users would decline because the product wouldn't be forced on buyers/users anymore. I have to dispute your assertion IAMBG...I wouldn't know where to begin to look for drugs if I decided I wanted to get stoned tonight. And beyond that, I would suppress the urge instantly since I know my middle-aged @ss would undoubtedly lead me directly to an undercover cop on my first purchase attempt. However, I'd have no such difficulties or reservations were drugs legal. I don't see how you could argue accessibility is not an issue, its absolutely an issue (and it would be risk-free accessibility at that). I also can't believe some are arguing that 'natural' marijuana is harmless. Having smoked it a fair # of times in my youth, and experienced the mind-numbing effects that stuck with me for days, I think characterizing it as 'harmless' is a pretty dubious claim (or bald-faced rationalization). I have no problem with legalization to an extent, as I think most 'legal' drugs such as alcohol and nicotine (as already pointed out here) are just as detrimental if abused. But I don't think you can really argue recreational drugs are harmless anymore than you can assert alcohol and nicotine do no harm. If the position is 'do whatever you like as long as it doesn't impact anyone else', I generally agree. However, my experience has been that rarely do we do anything that does not impact those around us, and the 'impact' of drug use is not in my opinion a positive one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe Posted February 1, 2003 Share Posted February 1, 2003 I have not read everyone's opinion because after seeing Art's response, and having the paramedics restart my heart, I really feel compelled to respond. Licence legal drug users??!!! Art, you are going to have to turn in your conservative credentials right this minute. Talk about Big Brother. I have to believe that you were high when you typed that;) As for my own opinion. It is easier for my 18 year old daughter (and her 14 year old sister) to buy marijuana than for me to buy it. This has always struck me as wrong. It should be legalized, for all those over 25 and it should be taxed like cigarettes and alcohol. Big time federal and state taxes. It is not that I beleive that marijuana is not harmful, it is, but it seems to be no more harmful than alcohol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted February 3, 2003 Share Posted February 3, 2003 Originally posted by rellim Why would you tax to raise the price of a drug that is widely viewed and experienced as non-harmful (such as Marijuana) and not a product such as cigarettes and alcohol, which can cause death and destroy your system. I am not an expert on Pot, I have never tried it but I know of people who use it. Why do so many people say it is harmless? The people that I know that use it are total losers, they have no energy ( they are so freakin lazy they don't want to work any more), their intelligence has been diminished since they have been using it and they are just out and out gross people now, whereas they were not before. I'd say that is harmful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted February 3, 2003 Share Posted February 3, 2003 Joe, At heart I have many libertarian principles beyond just the natural gravitation toward conservativism that we all are born with . But, nothing about a license system for users of legal drugs is remotely close to Big Brother. You are essentially creating a system, if drugs are legal, that there is a greater issue of public welfare to consider. There is no quick and easy way to determine if a person is high behind the wheel. As a trade off for using drugs, people must allow such discovery. If not, then legalizing drugs will end up doing more harm to the general population than we could probably calculate here. However, I believe, like Yomar, that the moment any drug, including pot, is made legal, a national shift will occur that will attack it as unsafe and a killer. Hell, we're already seeing commercials that demonstrate how being high on pot impairs driving -- in a fictionalized series of commercials. But, no matter. I've never fully understood why drugs are illegal in the first place. If you make them available and cheap you remove the element of crime that is associated with drugs, and while you expose a greater number of people to the use, in the end, that just makes the world easier for those who don't use . I don't fully appreciate the arguments that the prohibition on drugs in general are any different than that on alcohol that caused great crime and avoidance of the law. If the savages want to kill themselves, why should we interfere . Perhaps that's what I mean . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yomar Posted February 3, 2003 Share Posted February 3, 2003 Originally posted by codeorama I am not an expert on Pot, I have never tried it but I know of people who use it. Why do so many people say it is harmless? The people that I know that use it are total losers, they have no energy ( they are so freakin lazy they don't want to work any more), their intelligence has been diminished since they have been using it and they are just out and out gross people now, whereas they were not before. I'd say that is harmful. Code, you are exactly right, I've seen the same thing, but you could argue that junk food, TV, video games, alcohol and the opposite sex if over done can have the same effect to varying degrees Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted February 4, 2003 Share Posted February 4, 2003 Originally posted by Yomar Code, you are exactly right, I've seen the same thing, but you could argue that junk food, TV, video games, alcohol and the opposite sex if over done can have the same effect to varying degrees :laugh: Very true... Anyone can be a truly gross person for a wide variety of reasons. I guess I have just never seen any benefits that would make me want to try it. I would rather waste my money of video games or musical instruments..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckydevil Posted February 4, 2003 Share Posted February 4, 2003 Imagine the amount of money that could be made by the legalization of drugs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex Posted February 5, 2003 Share Posted February 5, 2003 All in favor of legalized drugs go watch the movie THX 1138 and think again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted February 6, 2003 Share Posted February 6, 2003 The way I look at it, folks who burn and are unmotivated losers, were losers to start. You only notice the losers. There are people in your work places that do just as good as you do in your field that you don't even know gets high. Could be your boss. Drug tests can be beat, and if the person is a casual smoker (once or twice a week) it's very easy to keep clean for testing. Fact is, the vast majority of burners are in fact not losers, but your co-workers, bosses, lawyers, firefighters, sister inlaw, neighbor Bob, reverend, and you don't even know it. I hope they never legalize anything. Uncle Sam is already bending over a minority group with unfair tax to benifit everybody. Smokers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins Trumpet-Man Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 yeah, just pot. easily taxed. medical uses. yada yada Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 a pack of Weed Cigs....... $15 actual cost to make? less that $1 amount the Government gets from each pack? how about somewhere around $10. Dang, they could make so much off of that, it would be sicky. They could afford to go after the hardcore drugs for the next 100 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 Originally posted by Pete The way I look at it, folks who burn and are unmotivated losers, were losers to start. You only notice the losers. There are people in your work places that do just as good as you do in your field that you don't even know gets high. Could be your boss. Drug tests can be beat, and if the person is a casual smoker (once or twice a week) it's very easy to keep clean for testing. Fact is, the vast majority of burners are in fact not losers, but your co-workers, bosses, lawyers, firefighters, sister inlaw, neighbor Bob, reverend, and you don't even know it. I hope they never legalize anything. Uncle Sam is already bending over a minority group with unfair tax to benifit everybody. Smokers You are probably right, but I only have my experience to go by. The 3 or 4 guys I know that do it were no losers before the started, only since. That's where I based my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratoman Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 Originally posted by Art anyone who wants to use drugs -- whatever list we come up with can be discussed later -- has to register themselves as a legal drug user. We should charge for the license to use legal drugs. So would you be apposed to people who drink alcohol or take prescription medication, registering themselves as a legal drug users? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canyonero! Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 Originally posted by stratoman So would you be apposed to people who drink alcohol or take prescription medication, registering themselves as a legal drug users? I think Art's point here was that people who want to use drugs would have to go with this trade-off. Alcohol is already legal for those of us 21 and older, and there's no push to re-criminalize it, so why would they need to start a new system to register people for alcohol? As for my opinion on the whole matter; while I love to disagree with Europeans as much as possible, I feel that the legalization (or at least decriminalization) of tier 1 drugs (hash, pot, etc) would have many more positives than negatives. Taxing drugs would clearly help many states out of their current financial woes, it would reduce the money spent on the war on drugs, and it would reduce the number of people in prison. The biggest reason I'm for legalized pot is the ridiculous mandatory-minimum laws that many states have on the books. These laws force judges to sentence drug users to terms that are unjustified to me, instead of getting them treatment. I think a lot of people underestimate how many of their friends and co-workers smoke pot. Pot isn't just for teenagers and slackers you know. Getting drugs legalized and talking about getting drugs legalized are 2 very different things though. I really wish the federal government would let states have their own drug laws. Nevada held a referendum 2 years ago on legalizing pot. It failed, but it wouldn't have mattered anyway since the Federal law takes precedence over states ones. I believe that after Canada legalizes/decriminalizes pot in the next 3-4 years, there will be a lot of pressure for our country to do the same. I just worry that our leaders will look at how much we've spent on the "war on drugs", and say we can't just give up. That's a huge mistake, and they should know that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG Posted March 12, 2003 Author Share Posted March 12, 2003 Originally posted by Canyonero! As for my opinion on the whole matter; while I love to disagree with Europeans as much as possible, I feel that the legalization (or at least decriminalization) of tier 1 drugs (hash, pot, etc) would have many more positives than negatives. Taxing drugs would clearly help many states out of their current financial woes, it would reduce the money spent on the war on drugs, and it would reduce the number of people in prison. I Now the real meat and potatoes of this issue. Why has this not happened? Why won't this happen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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