moviedude25 Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 Whoa, Riddle me this?What exactly does moviedude25 mean? Get off the drugs son, it'll do you good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 riddle me this Gibbs haters..." name one GREAT KC WR during Saunder's tenure?" Even without any decent WR's, KC QB's STILL threw for 4000+ yards regularly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 riddle me this Gibbs haters..." name one GREAT KC WR during Saunder's tenure?" Even without any decent WR's, KC QB's STILL threw for 4000+ yards regularly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tone_dubbz Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 Saunders is an overpaid waste who's hurt this team more then he's ever helped it. In 2005 when we marched into the playoffs that was JOE GIBBS smash mouth football. Then the next season we had Saunders who supposedly has an 800 page playbook who only runs worse plays then when Gibbs was calling the plays. I want to dump Saunders because he's done nothing but bring distrations and disappointments to this team since arriving. Yeah but the offense was still wasn't good enough. Gibbs basically made the Skins impose their will on the opposition. The victory over the Bucs in the 1st round wasn't because of the offense, and the loss to the Seahawks exposed our weakness in offensive production. Saunders was suppossed to add another dimension to this team to put up points and not always rely on the defense. The Offense is still in its developmental stage, and I think AS will get the offense going sooner or later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tone_dubbz Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 Saunders is an overpaid waste who's hurt this team more then he's ever helped it. In 2005 when we marched into the playoffs that was JOE GIBBS smash mouth football. Then the next season we had Saunders who supposedly has an 800 page playbook who only runs worse plays then when Gibbs was calling the plays. I want to dump Saunders because he's done nothing but bring distrations and disappointments to this team since arriving. Yeah but the offense was still wasn't good enough. Gibbs basically made the Skins impose their will on the opposition. The victory over the Bucs in the 1st round wasn't because of the offense, and the loss to the Seahawks exposed our weakness in offensive production. Saunders was suppossed to add another dimension to this team to put up points and not always rely on the defense. The Offense is still in its developmental stage, and I think AS will get the offense going sooner or later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 No way. The offense had all the same problems before Saunders got here. If anything, Gibbs is holding Al back. Because this is clearly not the same scheme Al was running in KC where no matter what, he would attack, attack, attack. That said, if Joe is going to keep meddling, he should just fire Al and run things himself. Too many cooks may be worse than one cook with an antiquated scheme. gibbs hasnt run a good offense since 1992 and hes not gonna start now. i bet saunders is fuming right now that he is handcuffed to gibbs' idea of what a good offense is. saunders has proven he can run a #1 offense in the modern nfl multiple years, with less talent than we have. sure our oline is banged up right now, but al saunders is literally calling the same 15 plays a game. joe gibbs is still acting like hes got the hogs and we can just outmatch everybody on any given down. we arent taking shots downfield because gibbs is scared about turning the ball over. every QB that takes shots throws picks, just the name of the game. we run a no risk offense, and teams know it. no risk = no reward. were ranked 25th in offense right now, and it isnt al saunders fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 No way. The offense had all the same problems before Saunders got here. If anything, Gibbs is holding Al back. Because this is clearly not the same scheme Al was running in KC where no matter what, he would attack, attack, attack. That said, if Joe is going to keep meddling, he should just fire Al and run things himself. Too many cooks may be worse than one cook with an antiquated scheme. gibbs hasnt run a good offense since 1992 and hes not gonna start now. i bet saunders is fuming right now that he is handcuffed to gibbs' idea of what a good offense is. saunders has proven he can run a #1 offense in the modern nfl multiple years, with less talent than we have. sure our oline is banged up right now, but al saunders is literally calling the same 15 plays a game. joe gibbs is still acting like hes got the hogs and we can just outmatch everybody on any given down. we arent taking shots downfield because gibbs is scared about turning the ball over. every QB that takes shots throws picks, just the name of the game. we run a no risk offense, and teams know it. no risk = no reward. were ranked 25th in offense right now, and it isnt al saunders fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moviedude25 Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 Maybe you need to come to the realization that the players just aren't that good. It's the talent at this point. All the coaches are seasoned and have proven systems. Suddenly its their fault when they come to DC? Get real. Sure that's a fine arguement as long as you'll say that the players on this team were the ones that the coaches choose over other players. We could have a Shawn Merriman here right now but they thought that another player was better. We traded 2 picks for Brandon Lloyd because the coaches thought he was worth it. These bad players on the team are here today because these COACHES thought they were the answer. If they are BAD players then its the COACHES fault and no one elses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moviedude25 Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 Maybe you need to come to the realization that the players just aren't that good. It's the talent at this point. All the coaches are seasoned and have proven systems. Suddenly its their fault when they come to DC? Get real. Sure that's a fine arguement as long as you'll say that the players on this team were the ones that the coaches choose over other players. We could have a Shawn Merriman here right now but they thought that another player was better. We traded 2 picks for Brandon Lloyd because the coaches thought he was worth it. These bad players on the team are here today because these COACHES thought they were the answer. If they are BAD players then its the COACHES fault and no one elses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 al saunders likes to exploit defenses be it deep,intermediate or short.joe gibbs likes to play conservatively on offense. is our offense trying to exploit weaknesses of the defense or are they trying to play conservatively. it's only a matter of time before we lose 2-3 games in a row cause of gibbs closevest philisophy. The problem with conservative is that in the 80's, you could get away with it. Get a lead and sit on it. Nowadays, the entire game is geared to more offense because the fans like offense and the NFL wants the ratings. EVERY RULE CHANGE in the past 10 years has been to increase offense. You cant sit on a 1 score lead because the other team IS GOING to score. The Skins take advantage of that less than any team in the league (except the Jets). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 al saunders likes to exploit defenses be it deep,intermediate or short.joe gibbs likes to play conservatively on offense. is our offense trying to exploit weaknesses of the defense or are they trying to play conservatively. it's only a matter of time before we lose 2-3 games in a row cause of gibbs closevest philisophy. The problem with conservative is that in the 80's, you could get away with it. Get a lead and sit on it. Nowadays, the entire game is geared to more offense because the fans like offense and the NFL wants the ratings. EVERY RULE CHANGE in the past 10 years has been to increase offense. You cant sit on a 1 score lead because the other team IS GOING to score. The Skins take advantage of that less than any team in the league (except the Jets). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselPwr44 Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 we arent taking shots downfield because we have no Oline . Fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselPwr44 Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 we arent taking shots downfield because we have no Oline . Fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenegadeTK Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 Saunders had a good line in KC, a seasoned QB and strong RBs.Neither Saunders or Gibbs are the ones blowing assignments. Neither Saunders or Gibbs are the ones dropping easy catches. Neither Saunders or Gibbs are the ones missing tackles. Maybe you need to come to the realization that the players just aren't that good. We read articles and get all excited about them, Snyder gets them to sign a lucrative contract, but when push comes to shove, maybe they're just flashes in the pan. Just because they're starters on our team doesn't make them the best in the league. It's the talent at this point. All the coaches are seasoned and have proven systems. Suddenly its their fault when they come to DC? Get real. very well put..... the problem is in execution and injuries. when we had a legit oline for the first 2 weeks, the problem was our team executing plays. with our makeshift oline, we have had to alter our gameplans... i have faith in our talented coaching squad to make the necessary adjustments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenegadeTK Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 Saunders had a good line in KC, a seasoned QB and strong RBs.Neither Saunders or Gibbs are the ones blowing assignments. Neither Saunders or Gibbs are the ones dropping easy catches. Neither Saunders or Gibbs are the ones missing tackles. Maybe you need to come to the realization that the players just aren't that good. We read articles and get all excited about them, Snyder gets them to sign a lucrative contract, but when push comes to shove, maybe they're just flashes in the pan. Just because they're starters on our team doesn't make them the best in the league. It's the talent at this point. All the coaches are seasoned and have proven systems. Suddenly its their fault when they come to DC? Get real. very well put..... the problem is in execution and injuries. when we had a legit oline for the first 2 weeks, the problem was our team executing plays. with our makeshift oline, we have had to alter our gameplans... i have faith in our talented coaching squad to make the necessary adjustments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
earl Posted October 23, 2007 Author Share Posted October 23, 2007 No way. The offense had all the same problems before Saunders got here. If anything, Gibbs is holding Al back. Because this is clearly not the same scheme Al was running in KC where no matter what, he would attack, attack, attack. That said, if Joe is going to keep meddling, he should just fire Al and run things himself. Too many cooks may be worse than one cook with an antiquated scheme. I recall the chiefs running sweeps and screens to Priest Holmes behind the best line in football, not attacking deep. I recall Tony Gonzales catching the ball exactly how cooley is but Tony is a more explosive athlete that would hit the home run more regularly. as for the rams, as mentioned above, if you ask 10 football pundits who is responsible for "the greatest show on turf" i would bet all 10 would say Mike Martz. I also recall the "fun bunch" and "the posse". I wonder if they felt held back by joe's "conservative" play calling? Truth be told I think everyone on this board, myself included, is a little right about somethings, but mostly wrong about everything. Just saying have some faith in Joe Gibbs. He will right the ship, and if there is one thing i'm certain of is Joe wants to win, and he will not let his ego stand in the way of winning. In Joe I trust! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
earl Posted October 23, 2007 Author Share Posted October 23, 2007 No way. The offense had all the same problems before Saunders got here. If anything, Gibbs is holding Al back. Because this is clearly not the same scheme Al was running in KC where no matter what, he would attack, attack, attack. That said, if Joe is going to keep meddling, he should just fire Al and run things himself. Too many cooks may be worse than one cook with an antiquated scheme. I recall the chiefs running sweeps and screens to Priest Holmes behind the best line in football, not attacking deep. I recall Tony Gonzales catching the ball exactly how cooley is but Tony is a more explosive athlete that would hit the home run more regularly. as for the rams, as mentioned above, if you ask 10 football pundits who is responsible for "the greatest show on turf" i would bet all 10 would say Mike Martz. I also recall the "fun bunch" and "the posse". I wonder if they felt held back by joe's "conservative" play calling? Truth be told I think everyone on this board, myself included, is a little right about somethings, but mostly wrong about everything. Just saying have some faith in Joe Gibbs. He will right the ship, and if there is one thing i'm certain of is Joe wants to win, and he will not let his ego stand in the way of winning. In Joe I trust! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 Saunders is an overpaid waste who's hurt this team more then he's ever helped it. In 2005 when we marched into the playoffs that was JOE GIBBS smash mouth football. Then the next season we had Saunders who supposedly has an 800 page playbook who only runs worse plays then when Gibbs was calling the plays. I want to dump Saunders because he's done nothing but bring distrations and disappointments to this team since arriving. marched? we were 5-6 and all we did was run down everyones face and have a great defense. our offense was hardly awesome during that stretch, our D and portis getting a billion carries took us to the playoffs. and in the playoffs, our o was historically bad in tampa, and completely exposed in seattle. gibbs has just leaned on our defense and last year he couldnt, and we went 5-11. hes still leaning on our defense, our gameplan for the cardinals was "lean on our defense". its retarded. if saunders was calling the plays, we'd be doing much better. hes got a proven system that has been ****ized by gibbs and his 1980s mentality. this isnt the 80s. we dont have the hogs. defenses are faster than they were then. we cant just rely on outmatching the opposition. saunders offenses were putting up insane numbers when he was in charge, and dont tell me trent green is a beast, or that any of his receivers were great. weve got a TE just as good as gonzalez and we have him blocking for gods sake. and he was blocking in the first game of the season when we had a healthy oline as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 Saunders is an overpaid waste who's hurt this team more then he's ever helped it. In 2005 when we marched into the playoffs that was JOE GIBBS smash mouth football. Then the next season we had Saunders who supposedly has an 800 page playbook who only runs worse plays then when Gibbs was calling the plays. I want to dump Saunders because he's done nothing but bring distrations and disappointments to this team since arriving. marched? we were 5-6 and all we did was run down everyones face and have a great defense. our offense was hardly awesome during that stretch, our D and portis getting a billion carries took us to the playoffs. and in the playoffs, our o was historically bad in tampa, and completely exposed in seattle. gibbs has just leaned on our defense and last year he couldnt, and we went 5-11. hes still leaning on our defense, our gameplan for the cardinals was "lean on our defense". its retarded. if saunders was calling the plays, we'd be doing much better. hes got a proven system that has been ****ized by gibbs and his 1980s mentality. this isnt the 80s. we dont have the hogs. defenses are faster than they were then. we cant just rely on outmatching the opposition. saunders offenses were putting up insane numbers when he was in charge, and dont tell me trent green is a beast, or that any of his receivers were great. weve got a TE just as good as gonzalez and we have him blocking for gods sake. and he was blocking in the first game of the season when we had a healthy oline as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rellascout Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 Eddie Kennison & Johnny Morton had some good years under Saunders. I also remember some guys names Holt, Bruce, Hakim & Proehl who also played under Al's system. They put up some pretty good numbers. Saunders O has never done well the first year it is installed. When he as with Vermill they always talked about a 3 year plan. IT happened that way in St. Louis and KC. It is not Suanders ability it is what is happening on the field with players and with injuries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rellascout Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 Eddie Kennison & Johnny Morton had some good years under Saunders. I also remember some guys names Holt, Bruce, Hakim & Proehl who also played under Al's system. They put up some pretty good numbers. Saunders O has never done well the first year it is installed. When he as with Vermill they always talked about a 3 year plan. IT happened that way in St. Louis and KC. It is not Suanders ability it is what is happening on the field with players and with injuries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enter Apotheosis Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 Saunders has never really coached an offense that was overshadowed by the team's defense. Couple that with the fact that Jason Campbell is not yet a pro-bowl calibur QB and I wouldn't doubt that Saunders is having an easy time buying into Gibbs' conservative philosophy. You also have to remember that Santana is no Tory Holt, El is no Isaac Bruce, and Cooley is not quite as good as Tony Gonzalez. So why risk mistakes on offense when your defense can hold down the fort? Well, truthfully, our defense has shown that they can't hold down the fort if the offense doesn't at least move the chains. We can't seem to do that with a run-oriented approach when other teams stack the box, either... and I think Saunders and Gibbs are both slowly becoming aware of this fact. In short, both are equally to blame and we will not do well down the stretch unless they realize that we're in a position that we need to pass to set up the run and stretch the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enter Apotheosis Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 Saunders has never really coached an offense that was overshadowed by the team's defense. Couple that with the fact that Jason Campbell is not yet a pro-bowl calibur QB and I wouldn't doubt that Saunders is having an easy time buying into Gibbs' conservative philosophy. You also have to remember that Santana is no Tory Holt, El is no Isaac Bruce, and Cooley is not quite as good as Tony Gonzalez. So why risk mistakes on offense when your defense can hold down the fort? Well, truthfully, our defense has shown that they can't hold down the fort if the offense doesn't at least move the chains. We can't seem to do that with a run-oriented approach when other teams stack the box, either... and I think Saunders and Gibbs are both slowly becoming aware of this fact. In short, both are equally to blame and we will not do well down the stretch unless they realize that we're in a position that we need to pass to set up the run and stretch the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chow184 Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 we arent taking shots downfield because we have no Oline . Fixed. yeah...right.... our pass protection has been average at best our ground game has been god awful though teams are dropping 8 in the box and daring us to put the ball in campbells hands but ol' joe refuses to throw the ball down field. he's rather take the safer,less rewarding conservative path. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chow184 Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 we arent taking shots downfield because we have no Oline . Fixed. yeah...right.... our pass protection has been average at best our ground game has been god awful though teams are dropping 8 in the box and daring us to put the ball in campbells hands but ol' joe refuses to throw the ball down field. he's rather take the safer,less rewarding conservative path. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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