Packers fan comments on ST during ESPN "Winners" chat...

[Enter Apotheosis]

What are you saying ... you answer to a higher power?

Exit apotheosis.

I'm shocked... no one has ever made use of that one prior to you. Granted, it seems like most people don't even know what apotheosis means without looking it up

[Om]

I'm shocked... no one has ever made use of that one prior to you. Granted, it seems like most people don't even know what apotheosis means without looking it up

Philistines.

[bubba9497]

how many other safety's would have made that play

[Om]

how many other safety's would have made that play

That's easy ... all of them.

ST's the only one who would have bitten on the fake in the first place and HAD to make a spectacular play to recover.

[DCsportsfan53]

Ah, a trend. Dare I ask you to quantify that blanket statement?

As in, out of the last 25 equally adept play-action fakes, how many has he "bitten on" to the extent he had to use his athleticism to get out of trouble?

And, is that trend constant over his career, or has it fluctuated as the unit and circumstances around him have changed?

And, of course, what are we comparing those numbers to? Ed Reed's? Polamalu's? If so, how do Sean's quantified numbers compare to theirs?

You get the drift.

Is it ground-breaking anlysis? Of course not... but its an excellent reminder to the general population that ST has a lot of work to do from a play-recognition standpoint even despite the freakish nature of his abilities. Granted, I've gotten lambasted for critiquing ST's play in the past so I'm mostly just glad that someone took the time to show what it is that I've talked about.

Not sure I've ever seen anyone say Sean Taylor has never bitten on a play fake.

Ask and ye shall receive.

On this play, Carter gets pressure and clobbers Kitna, we can assume the hurry caused the overthrow. Furrey was behind Taylor, though, and this was on a play action late in the first quarter. I remember remarking at that time that it could be a much different game if he hits that. It may not have gone for a TD but it surely would've been a huge play. Now of course, the pressure our DL got (that they didn't get last year) is a huge factor but Detroit's line is terrible. Great example of the coverage and pressure working hand in hand. You're not beat if the pressure's there. However, I just have to question again, with the more complete, better blocking, able to run teams we have coming up on the schedule, do these plays start bouncing the other way at some point? I'm not here to admonish the D or Taylor, I'm just playing a little devil's advocate and wondering out loud if we can shut teams as well as it looks at first glance or if we're going to slip some and the offenses we've been playing have helped us out. I don't pretend to know the answer, it's just a question I wonder about and think is pertinent. I'm not really trying to compare him to Reed or Polamalu, I'd rather have Taylor on my team personally.

Unfortunately, they didn't give a replay of this particular play that showed the whole feel, the only replayed Kitna eating copious amounts of grass at the hands of Carter ( ). If you want more, I know I saw a few more in the GB game but you'll have to wait until I get home tonight and rewatch the game in its entirety. The one I posted was the only one I remembered where it was in the game enough that I could find it quickly. I'll gladly post any others I find, along with any plays I thought stood out in the other direction, if you guys so wish.

[DCsportsfan53]

how many other safety's would have made that play

Few if any, it was an amazing play.

That's easy ... all of them.

ST's the only one who would have bitten on the fake in the first place and HAD to make a spectacular play to recover.

Come on, Om, let's not exaggerate my position or pretend like it isn't something that could bite us later. I'm just saying, especially as much Cover 2 as we're playing this year, that was an awfully, awfully risky way to play that and we got lucky Favre messed up the throw. That's it, that's the totality. Hopefully, assuming I don't blow up my computer instead given my lack of talent with them (nuts and bolts >>>>>>>>>>> electricity , computers suck) I'll have the video clip of it up in here shortly, too.

[Oldfan]

Oldfan, don't think that the 'cracks' you've recieved have anything to do with your opinions. There are plenty of people on this board who write less-than-stellar opinions of the Redskins, myself included, that don't take the greif you do.

When you open a contrarian post with 'do any of you actually watch football?' you are the one setting the tone for the responses you get. Closing your arguement with the same level of condescention only guarantees that this cycle will continue. As long as you blame the rest of the world for the level of civility of the threads you join, that level will always be the same.

We are not that far apart in our assessment of Taylor. I think he has been overrated in the past, but not so much this year. Obviously the jury is still out, but I'd rather be optimistic than scour the web for negative opinions of the guy. (Or positive opinions of others that exclude him.) That's pretty much it.

Keep raging against the machine, you old rebel.

Henry, I opened this thread with condescending humor as a response to Om's humorous call out. Here's the opening (note the laughing smilie):

Quote:

Originally Posted by Om

Oldfan, pick up the white courtesy phone.

Do you people know anything whatsoever about the game called "football?":laugh:

You're blaming me for the lack of civility when I'm involved in a thread as though it doesn't happen on all the controversial threads in this forum? Like, I deserve it? Man, you're breaking me up.:laugh:

[Om]

Come on, Om, let's not exaggerate my position or pretend like it isn't something that could bite us later.

I can see where you'd think my comment was aimed at you--honestly, it wasn't.

Just playin' around. This one got WAY to serious.

[DCsportsfan53]

I can see where you'd think my comment was aimed at you--honestly, it wasn't.

Just playin' around. This one got WAY to serious.

to - preposition

1. (used for expressing motion or direction toward a point, person, place, or thing approached and reached, as opposed to from): They came to the house.

2. (used for expressing direction or motion or direction toward something) in the direction of; toward: from north to south.

too - adverb

1. in addition; also; furthermore; moreover: young, clever, and rich too.

2. to an excessive extent or degree; beyond what is desirable, fitting, or right: too sick to travel.

[Om]

53,

Thanks for the pretty Lions game pictures too. As you note, perhaps if we ever find out what Sean's assignment was on that play, and whether it was his fault or someone else's dude got open deep, we can add play #2 to your Great Sean Taylor Is Over-rated Pictorial Expose.

Kidding.

Just please, if you're going to go home and dig up some more plays where we can find Taylor behind a receiver, be sure to find at least an equal number of plays where he does his job so well the WR shies away from the route (it's a trend), gets alligator arms, drops a ball because he hears footsteps, or, best of all, the ball never goes anywhere near him because the QB has to look elsewhere.

Balance, baby.

*

Edit -- edited to fix a grammatical error. Their bad.

[Enter Apotheosis]

Just please, if you're going to go home and dig up some more plays where we can find Taylor behind a receiver, be sure to find at least an equal number of plays where he does his job so well the WR shies away from the route (it's a trend), gets alligator arms, drops a ball because he hears footsteps, or, best of all, the ball never goes anywhere near him because the QB has to look elsewhere.

Balance, baby.

Everyone on this site has all of those plays memorized already

[DCsportsfan53]

53,

Thanks for the pretty Lions game pictures too. As you note, perhaps if we ever find out what Sean's assignment was on that play, and whether it was his fault or someone else's dude got open deep, we can add play #2 to your Great Sean Taylor Is Over-rated Pictorial Expose.

Kidding.

Just please, if you're going to go home and dig up some more plays where we can find Taylor behind a receiver, be sure to find at least an equal number of plays where he does his job so well the WR shies away from the route (it's a trend), gets alligator arms, drops a ball because he hears footsteps, or, bets of all, the ball never goes anywhere near him because the QB has to look elsewhere.

Balance, baby.

Absolutely, I said as much in the other post, too. There's no question he causes the types of plays you're talking about and there's no question that his range and hitting factor into the over and under throws because the QB knows just how quickly that window can close with him and just how headless his WR can be if he doesn't put it in just the right spot. This is just something I've noticed and I wanted to point out because, really, there's no reason to be biting on PA against and team that can't (and hadn't to that point in the game) run the ball successfully (ESPECIALLY in Cover 2, of all things) and that will cost us against better teams. Also, if he's going to bite against non running teams, what are we to expect when we play teams that CAN run the ball? Just a concern I have because we're going to need him to be pretty close to flawless in a game like the one coming up in two weeks if we're going to win (and I truly believe we can and WILL win that game).

[DCMONEY]

S.T. lead the Skins in tackles last season because our front 7 wasn't up to parr. This season he's being allowed to stay back more. I never had a question about him in coverage. I've said it before, he can lay WR out more now and have chance to pick off more passes.

[Om]

Honestly, I fully expect Tom Brady to try to sucker Sean a few times in 2 weeks. He'd be a fool not to since, as everyone knows, Taylor tends to bite on play fakes.

What will be fun to watch in that one is just how far Sean has come since the disaster of last year took him completely out of his comfort and effectiveness zone trying to do too much.

My guess is Tom Terrific will win one or two of those battles ... but I'd not bet money against Mr. Taylor winning a couple as well. Interestingly, it might not be Brady paying the price for those so much as guys running around in the secondary wearing numbers in the 80's.

[DCsportsfan53]

Honestly, I fully expect Tom Brady to try to sucker Sean a few times in 2 weeks. He'd be a fool not to since, as everyone knows, Taylor tends to bite on play fakes.

What will be fun to watch in that one is just how far Sean has come since the disaster of last year took him completely out of his comfort and effectiveness zone trying to do too much.

My guess is Tom Terrific will win one or two of those battles ... but I'd not bet money against Mr. Taylor winning a couple as well. Interestingly, it might not be Brady paying the price for those so much as guys running around in the secondary wearing numbers in the 80's.

I expect you're right, we will win and lose a few of those battles with them, I can't wait to see it. All things considered, I think we match up better with them than any other defense out there. We may even hold them to a season low 24-27 points :laugh: (which would be a small miracle). I'm very confident in this D (as I have been since before the draft) and I think they will make their plays and that game will come down to the offense. Can we avoid the drops, fumbles and missed plays that were there to make on offense? That'll be the deciding factor in that game. We have to make the plays that are there instead of constantly leaving them on the field as we have up to this point.

[Enter Apotheosis]

Honestly, I fully expect Tom Brady to try to sucker Sean a few times in 2 weeks. He'd be a fool not to since, as everyone knows, Taylor tends to bite on play fakes.

What will be fun to watch in that one is just how far Sean has come since the disaster of last year took him completely out of his comfort and effectiveness zone trying to do too much.

My guess is Tom Terrific will win one or two of those battles ... but I'd not bet money against Mr. Taylor winning a couple as well. Interestingly, it might not be Brady paying the price for those so much as guys running around in the secondary wearing numbers in the 80's.

If Kurt Warner is healthy-ish I'm more afraid of the Cardinals than the Patriots. We almost match up too well to what the Patriots try and do. Incidentally, I'm also on the record as saying that Sean Taylor and Sean Taylor alone will determine the effectiveness of our defense against that passing attack.

[Om]

If Kurt Warner is healthy-ish I'm more afraid of the Cardinals than the Patriots. We almost match up too well to what the Patriots try and do. Incidentally, I'm also on the record as saying that Sean Taylor and Sean Taylor alone will determine the effectiveness of our defense against that passing attack.

Clipped and saved for future reference. Who knows, maybe someday you'll be elected President and I'll have something to bribe an appointment as your Minister of Watching Football, Drinking Beer and Ogling Babes with.

[CRobi21]

This thread will never go away.

[Enter Apotheosis]

Clipped and saved for future reference. Who knows, maybe someday you'll be elected President and I'll have something to bribe an appointment as your Minister of Watching Football, Drinking Beer and Ogling Babes with.

You're the fifth or sixth person holding me accountable for that statement, so you may be relegated to clerk of the Minister of Watching Football, Drinking Beer and Ogling Babes.

I am eerily confident that we can play it close with the Pats (and I've had bad feelings about the Packers, Cards, and Lions). I'm no super genius, though... or are I?

[dcfarmboy47]

yea sean taylor is gettin it done big time this season

i just hope we pay him soon and i hope he actually wants to stay with us

his pricetag could be huge

:point2sky

[Om]

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/features/take2?gameId=271021028

Matchup to watch

Washington FS Sean Taylor vs. Arizona WR Anquan Boldin

A key matchup this weekend in Arizona will be Taylor and Boldin. Both are excellent players that give their respected teams the opportunities to make big plays. Boldin runs exceptional routes and catches the ball naturally with reliable hands. His quickness to avoid the initial hit after he catches the ball and then his burst to separate himself from the defenders is second to none in the NFL. However, he will face a player who is just as athletic as he is this weekend.

Taylor has hawking speed and hones in on the football better than any safety in the league. Taylor's ability to scar receivers with explosive hits makes him someone who opposing receivers always account for when he is on the field. The edge this weekend goes to the hard-hitting Taylor. Taylor showed exceptional coverage skills against the Packers' receivers last weekend and he will continue to play at a high level this weekend against Boldin and the rest of the Cardinals receivers.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Ok, I didn't read all 17 pages so someone fill me in...is the complete and total lack of a deep ball game against the Skins' defense this season due more to Sean Taylor's incredible range, his improved play and the improved play of his teammates, or is it due more to mere luck and bad QB play by opposing teams and that the Skins really should have had 4 or 5 deep completions by now, if not more?

I need to know so that if the Cardinals, like pretty much every team so far, don't complete a pass of more than 15 yards this Sunday, I'll know ahead of time to chalk it up to continuously stifling play by Sean Taylor or to yet another week of blind luck.

[Oldfan]

Ok, I didn't read all 17 pages so someone fill me in...is the complete and total lack of a deep ball game against the Skins' defense this season due more to Sean Taylor's incredible range, his improved play and the improved play of his teammates, or is it due more to mere luck and bad QB play by opposing teams and that the Skins really should have had 4 or 5 deep completions by now, if not more?

I need to know so that if the Cardinals, like pretty much every team so far, don't complete a pass of more than 15 yards this Sunday, I'll know ahead of time to chalk it up to continuously stifling play by Sean Taylor or to yet another week of blind luck.

IMO, a combination of these factors:

The cover three is designed to prevent the big play by giving the free safety room to roam. Taylor's range is an asset provided he doesn't take himself out of the play with a bad read.

McNabb, Kitna, and Favre (combined) had five or six opportunities to beat us deep and couldn't connect.

Whether the cover three is a boon or a bust will depend on how well our opponents exploit its weaknesses, not simply on how many times they beat its strength (preventing the deep passes).