rv581 Posted December 25, 2002 Share Posted December 25, 2002 Originally posted by Yomar The athelete in this situation may never be able to compete in his sport again because he signed a contract, and then decided he wanted to retire. You don't get to unretire while still under contract and go play for anyone you please, its called accountability, Deion wasn't upset by his contract when he signed it, nor was he upset about it when he retired, so he has nothing to complain about and no one has done him any wrong. "Let us play" "Its a business", the athelete will use which ever of these two phrases is in his best interests in any given situation, but the reality is that it is a business, not a game, with real contracts and everything, and Deion has worked the system to his benefit every step of the way. The fact that he is now being hindered by a prior business decision he made evokes absolutely no sympathy from me. Legally, you're absolutely right. Ethically? To sign a player with no intent on ever playing him-- just to deprive him from having a chance at playing football one more time? I don't think it's right at all. Regardless if the player is D. Sanders, B. Sanders, B. Smith, or D. Green, it's not ethical. Take a look at it from a different angle: Say Emmitt Smith retires at the end of this year. Two years later, we're headed towards the playoffs and our RB breaks his leg. Emmitt announces that he sorely misses the game of football and would like a chance to play with the Redskins, and Spurrier says he'd love to have him. Dallas releases him to give him a chance... and another team signs him off waivers, just to make sure he can never play football again. Legalities aside, it's not the right way to treat someone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yomar Posted December 25, 2002 Share Posted December 25, 2002 its a business, no one knows that better than Deion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljer Posted December 25, 2002 Share Posted December 25, 2002 Say Emmitt Smith retires at the end of this year. Two years later, we're headed towards the playoffs and our RB breaks his leg. Emmitt announces that he sorely misses the game of football and would like a chance to play with the Redskins, and Spurrier says he'd love to have him. Dallas releases him to give him a chance... and another team signs him off waivers, just to make sure he can never play football again. Emmitt has class...Deion does not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiefhogskin48 Posted December 25, 2002 Share Posted December 25, 2002 rv581, are you a closet Deion-lover? :laugh: The fact that you think him latching onto a team's bandwagon after raping an organization only 2 years ago is ethical, and preventing him to do so by totally legit means is UNethical..... is simply mindboggling. There are many things that come to mind. Just dessert. What goes around comes around. Two "wrongs" (and this is CERTAINLY not a wrong) may not make a right, but it certainly is sweet revenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins57 Posted December 25, 2002 Share Posted December 25, 2002 As my mother used to tell me when I did stupid crap "You made your bed, now sleep in it" Sanders was trying to get a free Super Bowl ring and it is funny as heck when it back fired in his face:laugh: :laugh: Thanks to the Chargers and the other 4 teams that stopped this. :laugh: :laugh: :cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Mike Posted December 25, 2002 Share Posted December 25, 2002 "Should Deion decide he wants to play in the future, we would welcome the opportunity to discuss that with him at the appropriate time," Schottenheimer said. See? He can play if he wants. He just has to do it within the rules of his contract and the NFL. :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeP. Posted December 25, 2002 Share Posted December 25, 2002 rv581, how ethical is it that Deion wanted to play ONLY on a playoff team? He said that he only wanted to play for a team during the playoffs and that team had too have a chance to make it too the SB. He's being the same ole greedy person that he has always been. He signed that contract and knew that he wouldn't play out the contract. Probably already knew that he would play one or two years then retire and keep all of the signing bonus. Oh yeah, and then he throws in the phrase "I've been praying for days about this decision". The man was only after another SB ring. Thats it. Thats not ethical in my book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins57 Posted December 25, 2002 Share Posted December 25, 2002 I agree MikeP all we wanted was a ring and a free ride to get it, Could you imagine someone like Darrell Green doing something like that? Never because he is all man and has class. Dieon is niether Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty dread Posted December 25, 2002 Share Posted December 25, 2002 Originally posted by rv581 I don't like it. Regardless of how we feel about Deion, it would've been interesting to see how he could compete at age 35. Marty robbed us of this out of petty, vindictive, mean-spiritedness. Deion might have gone out of his way to be arrogant, but here Marty has gone out of his way to be an a-hole. If Deion wants to play, let him play. The same goes for Barry Sanders. The days of black balling people should be over. :cuss: Deion?? That you??!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarhog Posted December 25, 2002 Share Posted December 25, 2002 rv...don't want to pile on here (hey, all of us say suspect things, even stupid ones once in a while and its just your turn man).....but talk about asking for a gang-spanking. Deion's nothing but a self-serving showboater who's getting what he deserves. I'm willing to bet he could really care less. He got his name in the paper for a few days so he'll be more than satisfied. If he really was serious about returning for a playoff appearance, it was only to hype his own image and make some easy money. This ain't Greenpeace were talking here. If he didn't want to be 'robbed' of his last precious years of NFL playing time, he could have honored the contract he signed and was paid obscene amounts of money for. You're all wet on this one friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gridironmike Posted December 25, 2002 Share Posted December 25, 2002 Maybe he can make a baseball comeback as a Bronx Little Leaguer at All-Star time!:laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickalino Posted December 25, 2002 Author Share Posted December 25, 2002 I would agree with rv's premise that it's not fair to do that to an athlete, IF we were talking about any athlete other than Deion. But Deion is an exception to the rule. And he MADE HIMSELF an exception Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ummagumma Posted December 25, 2002 Share Posted December 25, 2002 Thanks Marty for amking my Xmas very merry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCS Posted December 25, 2002 Share Posted December 25, 2002 Well rv581, I do have to admire your willingness to stand by your principles on this one...despite the pile on. I think you would be correct on the ethics of this if it wasnt for a point brought up earlier. In this case, the motivation was not to keep a player from playing again as much as it was keeping a player from going to another team..though not playing again is quite possibly the result... .. I know... it seems unethical but that aspect of it really is a business decision as well as part of the game. I don't believe that Butler or Shottie's worlds are small enough to make decisions based on any type of revenge or petty vindictiveness, or small enough to get any real pleasure out of doing this for those same reasons. Again... Kudos for standing in the fire on this one. Besides...things aren't all that bad in San Deigo http://www.chargers.com/chargergirls/2002_group.cfm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG Posted December 25, 2002 Share Posted December 25, 2002 Originally posted by Yomar The athelete in this situation may never be able to compete in his sport again because he signed a contract, and then decided he wanted to retire. You don't get to unretire while still under contract and go play for anyone you please, its called accountability, Deion wasn't upset by his contract when he signed it, nor was he upset about it when he retired, so he has nothing to complain about and no one has done him any wrong. "Let us play" "Its a business", the athelete will use which ever of these two phrases is in his best interests in any given situation, but the reality is that it is a business, not a game, with real contracts and everything, and Deion has worked the system to his benefit every step of the way. The fact that he is now being hindered by a prior business decision he made evokes absolutely no sympathy from me. amen and the town of who-deion-ville all sang with joy as the grich realized that his plan was foiled...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rv581 Posted December 25, 2002 Share Posted December 25, 2002 Originally posted by Park City Skins Well rv581, I do have to admire your willingness to stand by your principles on this one...despite the pile on. I think you would be correct on the ethics of this if it wasnt for a point brought up earlier. In this case, the motivation was not to keep a player from playing again as much as it was keeping a player from going to another team..though not playing again is quite possibly the result... .. I know... it seems unethical but that aspect of it really is a business decision as well as part of the game. I don't believe that Butler or Shottie's worlds are small enough to make decisions based on any type of revenge or petty vindictiveness, or small enough to get any real pleasure out of doing this for those same reasons. Again... Kudos for standing in the fire on this one. Besides...things aren't all that bad in San Deigo http://www.chargers.com/chargergirls/2002_group.cfm Thank you. And I hope you and your family has a happy, wonderful holiday. And for the people that don't agree with me... I hope you and your family have a happy, wonderful holiday, too. It's easy not to like Deion. I don't particularly like him. But what I like even less is the prescedent it sets. The potential for negativity and harm is enormous. There should be some rule in the NFL to let veterans have greater leedway in picking a new team. Could you imagine if Jerry Rice, after he left the 49ers, was signed off waivers by the Bengals-- who planned on keeping him on the bench? The rules that effect a "retired" Deion Sanders will also affect a "retired" Bruce Smith, Emmitt Smith, Barry Sanders, Darrell Green, and more. If a 2004 playoff team needs a corner and Green is available, I'd hate to see the Chargers sign him w/o any intent to let him play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yomar Posted December 25, 2002 Share Posted December 25, 2002 Deion or any other player that has retired but is still under contract can not be denied the right to return to the game and earn a livelihood. But Deion is not being prevented the opportunity to play, he is being prevented the opportunity to reneg on a contract. Its as simple as that, if Deion or Barry or anyone else wants to play, they can play, for the Chargers and Lions respectively. But they can't just tear up a contract and go play for someone else whenever they feel like it. Perhaps you feel that once he was released by the Redskins, Deion should immediately become a Free Agent. Thats reasonable, but there are rules agreed upon between the NFLPA and the NFL about waivers, and these rules were not implemented just to prevent Deion from doing what he wants. So I don't think any precendent has been set here, in fact I think this is just the status quo and the only reason we are talking about it at all is that Deion Sanders is involved. If Deion was not held to his contract or the rules about waivers, then that would be a precedent...one I wouldn't want to see, one that will never happen, and that has nothing at all to do with Sanders. If Deion wants to play, he can play, he can show up next year for Chargers camp and try to make the team. And if he doesn't he will be released again, and next time when it isn't so close to playoff time, he probably won't be claimed off waivers and then he can do whatever he wants. But I really don't think this is a personal thing between Marty and Deion, its all about competition and not doing the other team any favors when the chips are on the line. Who knows, maybe the Chargers will slip into the playoffs, Deion will play and help the team to the Super Bowl...being played in SD...and help Marty win a ring, wouldn't that be something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montilar Posted December 25, 2002 Share Posted December 25, 2002 RV, you got it wrong. It's easy not to like Deion. I don't particularly like him. But what I like even less is the prescedent it sets. The potential for negativity and harm is enormous. There should be some rule in the NFL to let veterans have greater leedway in picking a new team. Could you imagine if Jerry Rice, after he left the 49ers, was signed off waivers by the Bengals-- who planned on keeping him on the bench? Deoin can come back and play. NEXT YEAR. He was on the retired list for the skins; by picking him up off the waiver wire, the chargers picked him up ON the retired list. Meaning he CANNOT play this year REGARDLESS of the team he was picked up by. The ONLY way he could play this year in the playoffs was to clear the waiver wire, thus voiding the contract he signed with the skins. Then he could go wherever he wanted and sign a new contract. The team picking him up off of waivers agrees to honor his contract from the prior team; that's the trade off. If he comes back, he's gauranteed the contract he had with the skins. But he has to play for San Diego. DEOIN WAS NOT A FREE AGENT; He only became a free agent IF he cleared the waiver wire. He didn't clear waivers so he belongs to the team that AGREED to honor his existing contract (if he truly wants to play). The point is Deion CAN came back; but it's on the NFL terms. And his new teams terms. What you are suggesting is a player could "retire" whenever he wants (ala Peeon) then come back and "Voila!" the contract is void and he can go wherever he wants. That would be pure insanity with today's "ME ME ME" mentality. I could see Randy Moss signing a 100 million contract with a 10 million bonus, then "retiring". And come back the following year and sign with another team...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yomar Posted December 25, 2002 Share Posted December 25, 2002 Originally posted by Montilar Deoin can come back and play. NEXT YEAR. He was on the retired list for the skins; by picking him up off the waiver wire, the chargers picked him up ON the retired list. Meaning he CANNOT play this year REGARDLESS of the team he was picked up by. Rats, so much for Marty and Deion pouring champagne over each other this year...maybe next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rv581 Posted December 25, 2002 Share Posted December 25, 2002 I don't want to argue anymore. Happy holidays everyone, and happy birthday Jesus! May everyone have a safe and healthy new year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montilar Posted December 25, 2002 Share Posted December 25, 2002 Yomar, that's how one article that someone posted either here or cpnd put it. he had to clear waivers completely to play this year. so if the article was wrong...... anyway there was little chance of marty, Deoin and champagne getting together unless it involved throwing of bottles. Deoin flat out stated he only wanted to play for a playoff team and had no intention of playing during the regular season again.... in other words, he will play for your team IF you are willing to make the playoffs without him; then he'd appreciate a free ride. I sincerely hope his last couple of years in the league stays in the minds of the hall of fame voters...... Put him next to Sammy baugh, Butkus or a real hall of famer and they would probably toss him out on his bum for impersonating a football player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickalino Posted December 26, 2002 Author Share Posted December 26, 2002 Originally posted by rv581 I don't want to argue anymore. Happy holidays everyone, and happy birthday Jesus! May everyone have a safe and healthy new year. Ding. Ding. Ding....Okay. Christmas break in between rounds is over now. So can we return to the boxing ring and get back to arguing about Deion again ? :box: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted December 26, 2002 Share Posted December 26, 2002 Hope everyone had a nice holiday. Now, to the piling-on. Deion plays under the same rules as any other player. He was more than welcome to come back and play for the Redskins if the love for the game still burned in his belly. Or he could have asked to be traded before the trade deadline ended. But he waited until he could see which teams were going to the playoffs. That's his own fault, not the league's. Basically, what rv is saying is that Deion shouldn't be restricted by the rules all the other players have to follow because ... well darn it, he's Deion. I think that sets a far worse precendent that letting him slide through the system. And I don't mind a little bad karma finally catching up with the most selfish player in football. That's not a bad precedent to set, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rv581 Posted December 26, 2002 Share Posted December 26, 2002 Originally posted by Henry Basically, what rv is saying is that Deion shouldn't be restricted by the rules all the other players have to follow because ... well darn it, he's Deion. I think that sets a far worse precendent that letting him slide through the system. And I don't mind a little bad karma finally catching up with the most selfish player in football. That's not a bad precedent to set, either. Come on. That's NOT what I'm saying. I realize I'm in the minority, but don't completely mischaracterize what I said. I wasn't making one rule for Deion, one rule for everyone else. I said that while it was legal for the Chargers to sign Deion, I didn't think it was ethical for a team to sign a veteran of waivers w/ the intent to not let him play. And I used Darrell Green, Emmitt Smith, Barry Sanders, and Bruce Smith as other examples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted December 26, 2002 Share Posted December 26, 2002 Originally posted by rv581 Come on. That's NOT what I'm saying. I realize I'm in the minority, but don't completely mischaracterize what I said. I wasn't making one rule for Deion, one rule for everyone else. I said that while it was legal for the Chargers to sign Deion, I didn't think it was ethical for a team to sign a veteran of waivers w/ the intent to not let him play. Oh, it's perfectly ethical. If Deion is interested in un-retiring. He can do so in San Diego. Or, if the Chargers actually DO make the playoffs, they can keep Deion from playing against them. What's unethical about it? Just because Deion went behind the league's back and made a deal with Oakland so he could get into the playoffs for free, we should let it slide because, well, he's Deion. The funny part is that the Redskins could have charged the Raiders with tampering and they didn't. Or the Redskins could have simply hung on to Deion and they didn't. Deion actually did benefit from the good graces of others, and yet still didn't get his way because there was just one too many rules to circumvent this time. Again, if Deion really wanted to grace us all with his continued football prowess, he could have declared his intentions before the trade deadline. Instead he tried to wiggle his way through the system for a cheap SB ring and hit a snag. I don't feel sorry for him in the least. And I used Darrell Green, Emmitt Smith, Barry Sanders, and Bruce Smith as other examples. You know why they are great examples? Because not one of them hasever tried to pull something like this. They respect the game, so the game respects them back, and they aren't stuck like Deion currently is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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