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Giuliani Firefighter Video

Tulane Skins Fan

By Tulane Skins Fan
in The Tailgate

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Tulane Skins Fan

Tulane Skins Fan

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Allow me to point out that what you've linked to is a political message, prepared by a government employee's union, about a Republican political candidate.

(Doesn't mean it's not true, but . . . )

a lot of firefighters are republicans. that union is pretty apolitical. and i didnt think they were damning republicans, just giuliani, personally. if giuliani was a democrat, i think they'd have the exact same message

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DCsportsfan53

DCsportsfan53

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Allow me to point out that what you've linked to is a political message, prepared by a government employee's union, about a Republican political candidate.

(Doesn't mean it's not true, but . . . )

a lot of firefighters are republicans. that union is pretty apolitical. and i didnt think they were damning republicans, just giuliani, personally. if giuliani was a democrat, i think they'd have the exact same message

The one guy even said he was a conservative who'd voted for Giuliani. Definitely some pretty damning stuff in there. :2cents:

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sean_e_b

sean_e_b

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The fact that the bodies were taken to the dump is terrible, but it's not as if this happened right away. They were given a considerable amount of time (52 days is what I believe I've heard) to find the remains. I must admit that he should have allowed for more time, but hardly is he a terrible person for doing this.

As for the radios not working, I don't see how Mr. Giuliani is completely at fault or even the major person at fault. The captains and members of the firestations could have pushed the issue more and if they thought they were really important they could have had a fund to help raise money to buy them (heck they do that all the time around my small little town why not the Big Apple)

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Tulane Skins Fan

Tulane Skins Fan

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The fact that the bodies were taken to the dump is terrible, but it's not as if this happened right away. They were given a considerable amount of time (52 days is what I believe I've heard) to find the remains. I must admit that he should have allowed for more time, but hardly is he a terrible person for doing this.

As for the radios not working, I don't see how Mr. Giuliani is completely at fault or even the major person at fault. The captains and members of the firestations could have pushed the issue more and if they thought they were really important they could have had a fund to help raise money to buy them (heck they do that all the time around my small little town why not the Big Apple)

Well, I disagree with it not being his fault, but what makes it even worse is that he's running as "the 9-11 candidate." You have to admit, it seems false. No?

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sean_e_b

sean_e_b

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Well, I disagree with it not being his fault, but what makes it even worse is that he's running as "the 9-11 candidate." You have to admit, it seems false. No?

Yes, he's obviously trying to get some sympathy votes by reminding everyone that he was the mayor when the September 11th attacks happened.

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AJ_Skins

AJ_Skins

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If you're going to post the attack, you should post the response:

Join Rudy 2008 - Press Release

07-11-2007

INTERNATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF PARTISAN POLITICS

It’s unfortunate but not surprising that the IAFF union bosses have once again taken the low road in a move clearly out of step with their membership. In 2008, I expect these same union bosses to endorse Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama or John Edwards, so today’s comments are just a first step in that process. Fortunately, rank and file firefighters know the difference between politics and leadership.”

– Lee Ielpi, Ladder 2, Retired FDNY

IAFF HAS HISTORY OF SUPPORTING DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES

IAFF Endorsed Dukakis In 1988. (“Firefighters’ Union Endorses Dukakis,” The Associated Press, 8/2/88)

IAFF Endorsed Clinton-Gore In 1992 And 1996. (IAFF, “America’s Fire Fighters Endorse Clinton-Gore,” Press Release, 8/7/92; IAFF, “Fire Fighters Endorse Clinton-Gore,” Press Release, 8/23/96)

IAFF Endorsed Gore In 2000. (IAFF, “Fire Fighters Endorse Gore For President,” Press Release, 1/21/99)

In 2004, “IAFF Was The First Labor Union To Endorse Democrat John Kerry's Race For The President, And Its President Was At Kerry's Side Through Much Of The Campaign.” (Fox News’ “Special Report,” 3/8/07)

IAFF Did Not Poll Its Members Before Making Kerry Endorsement. “‘I think the thing that really teed off a lot of firefighters was that nobody was polled about that,’ said David Powell, a nonunion member who serves as chief of the all-volunteer Reedley Fire Department. ‘The members were not asked about it.’” (Michael Doyle, “Union's Support Ignites Firefight,” Fresno Bee, 8/8/04)

IAFF PRESIDENT HAROLD SCHAITBERGER IS PARTISAN DEMOCRAT

Schaitberger Was “One Of Eight National Cochairs Of John Kerry's Campaign.” (Matthew Continetti, “How To Stage A Controversy,” The Weekly Standard, 3/22/04)

“Schaitberger … Appeared On Stage With Kerry When He Claimed His Iowa Prize [in 2004]…” (James O'Toole and Bill Toland, “Fight For Firefighters' Favor,” Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, 4/25/04)

Schaitberger At Kerry Endorsement Press Conference: “[T]he Bush Administration Has Thrust Our Nation Into The Worst Economic Crisis Since The Great Depression” (IAFF, “Fire Fighters Endorse Kerry for President,” Press Release, 9/24/03)

CLICK HERE TO WATCH THE PRESS CONFERENCE

“Endorsing Candidates Early Is Part Of Schaitberger's Recipe For Success; He Was An Early Gore Supporter In 2000.” (Thomas Lang, “Kerry's Red Engine,” Columbia Journalism Review Website, http://www.cjr.org/politics/kerrys_red_engine.php, 3/15/04, Accessed 7/10/07)

Schaitberger: “Credit Must Go To Speaker Pelosi And The Rest Of The Leadership In The House Of Representatives For Getting Done What The Current Administration In The White House Has Failed To Do.” (IAFF, “Fire Fighters Applaud Democrats For Protecting America,” Press Release, 1/9/07)

Schaitberger: “While The Administration Tirelessly Portrays Democrats As Weak On National Security, The Truth Is That The New Party In Power Has Clearly Demonstrated Through Its Action That It Knows How To Bolster Our Nation's Homeland Security.” (IAFF, “Fire Fighters Applaud Democrats For Protecting America,” Press Release, 1/9/07)

MSNBC’s Chris Matthews: “International Firefighter Union President Harold Schaitberger Is Going To Be Here. He’s A Big Democrat.” (MSNBC’s “Hardball,” 10/25/06)

Schaitberger Appeared At 2006 Democratic Press Conference. “The General President of the International Association of Fire Fighters, AFL-CIO/CLC, Harold Schaitberger, issued this statement today after speaking at a press conference called by House and Senate Democrats pushing for a stronger homeland security program …” (IAFF, “Fire Fighters President Joins Democrats To Push For Comprehensive Security Priorities To Protect Our Homeland,” Press Release, 3/29/06)

Schaitberger Served As Chairman Of DLC’s “2002 National Conversation.” “The Democratic Leadership Council announced that its ‘2002 National Conversation’ will be held at the end of July in New York City. According to the DLC, ‘hundreds of well-known and up-and-coming leaders from around the country will attend this premier gathering of New Democrat elected officials.’ Harold Schaitberger, president of the International Association of Fire Fighters, will serve as the event chairman.” (“Capital Comment,” United Press International, 5/23/02)

Schaitberger Has Given Only To Democrats, Including Barbara Boxer (D-CA) And John Kerry (D-MA). (The Center For Responsive Politics Website, www.opensecrets.org, Accessed 7/10/07)

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Tulane Skins Fan

Tulane Skins Fan

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Yes, he's obviously trying to get some sympathy votes by reminding everyone that he was the mayor when the September 11th attacks happened.

I think its more than that. I think he's running on the image that he led NYC through this horrific time, and the idea is that he did such a great job at getting the city through 9-11 that he'd make a great president. Well, i think when that is your platform, the things you did on 9-11 and the days after are pretty relevant. And i think the firefighters are right to be pissed that he is running as such, if all they say is true.

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PeterMP

PeterMP

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Here's a more balanced view.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/17/us/politics/17firefighters.html?ex=1339732800&en=968bad0549cf5896&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

The firefighters union in NY had quite a bit of power. Guiliani and Bloomberg have had problems w/ them.

http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/u/uniformed_firefighters_assn/index.html?s=closest&query=BLOOMBERG,%20MICHAEL%20R&field=per&match=exact

In the end, they are a union, they want as much money/benifits as possible, and the mayor frequently has to say no.

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Reic

Reic

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What gets me is they keep saying how the 121 firefighters didn't make it out because they "didn't hear the evacuation call". It was made an hour and half an hour before the North tower collapsed.

If they didn't hear it at the hour before, they would have been too far up the tower to make it down in half an hour. Just leave it at the hour mark and not the half hour, once the half hour mark came, they were not going to make it out in time.

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cjcdaman

cjcdaman

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What gets me is they keep saying how the 121 firefighters didn't make it out because they "didn't hear the evacuation call". It was made an hour and half an hour before the North tower collapsed.

If they didn't hear it at the hour before, they would have been too far up the tower to make it down in half an hour. Just leave it at the hour mark and not the half hour, once the half hour mark came, they were not going to make it out in time.

This post gave me a headache. :laugh:

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flashback

flashback

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What gets me is they keep saying how the 121 firefighters didn't make it out because they "didn't hear the evacuation call". It was made an hour and half an hour before the North tower collapsed.

If they didn't hear it at the hour before, they would have been too far up the tower to make it down in half an hour. Just leave it at the hour mark and not the half hour, once the half hour mark came, they were not going to make it out in time.

Reic, are you saying that they knew when the North Tower was going to collapse?

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EersSkins05

EersSkins05

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Here's the biggest problem with Giuliani's 9/11 resume, which they touched on briefly in the video.

People look at him as if he was this fantastic leader who was on the streets of New York as everything was going down. But there was a reason he was out there... his command center (where any decisionmaker needs to be in an emergency) was located at the WTC site, despite the fact that EVERYONE from the NYPD, FDNY, and FBI had told Giuliani that it shouldn't be located there after the '93 attacks.

(Seriously, if you're going to set up the center to control emergency response in disaster situations, why put it on an area that is known to be a target of terrorist disasters?)

He wasn't running around because he was a great leader. He was running around because he didn't have a goddamn office.

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Reic

Reic

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Reic, are you saying that they knew when the North Tower was going to collapse?

I am not saying that by anymeans.

It is a moot point now because we know what happened. None of us were in those stairwells, so we don't know what it would have taken to get down in half an hour.

I am saying that with what we know now, there was a slim chance of those men and women getting out of there in 30 minutes. The hour, sure, there was plenty of time to get out.

I am not trying to make a case for Guliani, but you have to think at least about the chance of the brave firefighters getting out, depending on how many floors up they were and the amount of time they were givin to evacuate, along with the conditions in the stairwell at the time.

Make the case for an hour, just leave out the half an hour, the hour is more justifiable, in my opinion.

Every single man and woman in the rescue field need the latest equipment to do their job quick and more effectively, especially in a place as harsh and as large a scale as NYC. What those men and women had at the time was unacceptable.

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Koolblue13

Koolblue13

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Reic, are you saying that they knew when the North Tower was going to collapse?
I'll say it. Yes, they knew the tower would collapse. Thats why they evacuated Rudy before it happened.

=

Although he later changes his story.

=

Somebody on the scene did have communication with the firefighters right before the towers fell and plenty of time before they fell. Long enough to know the fires in the building had been either put out or under control. So if thats the case and everything was being handled, why would they evactuate?

I think they said Rudys bucker was in Building 1, it was in building 7.

http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/dc/2007/05/post.html

But it wasn't his idea.

And it's good he didn't go to building 7 because it was on fire before either tower fell, but the fire alarm was put on test that morning.

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.government.abuse/browse_thread/thread/1fb8ab3fd37037e5

White smoke fires, not hot enough to break glass couldn't come from a 6,000 lb propane tank, could it? The largest fire on the northside, was blamed on collateral damage even though it's protected by building 6 that was never on fire.

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/attack/wtc7.html

But you would think that if so much extremely important information was housed in building7, they would have at least rtyed to figure out what happened. Turns out FEMA was the only one to investigate it and they don't believe thier own story.

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/analysis/wtc7/index.html

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