Top 10 All-Time Linebacking Corps

[ABQCOWBOY]

One thing in comparing the Saints LB's, the Saints really didn't have much of a team around them. The other teams had many great players on offense and defense. Teams such as the Steelers were surrounded by Pro Bowlers and HOFers.:2cents:

I think it's between Parcells 90s Giants and Mora's Saints. Those LB crews were awsome. In fact, I think the 90s Giants LBs were vastly superior to the Steelers LBs. I'd take LT, Carson, Banks, Pepper Johnson, Gary Reasons and Steve DeOssie over Ham, Lambert, Russell, Cole and Winston any day of the week.

[pjfootballer]

I couldn't stay up past midnight last night as I had to go to work, but I'll watch it at 6 tonight, then give my opinion.

[rincewind]

i never said that they weren't good, even great, but number 1? better than the Steelers? better than Lanier, Lynch, and Bobby Bell? Better than Carson, Banks, Gary Reasons, and LT? come on...

I hate to say it - but, I don't see it getting much better than that Giants group. Sick.

[pjfootballer]

Missed it again. Wife wanted to watch a movie. I'll watch it Sunday at 11AM. For the record I think it should be between the 70's Steelers and the 80's Giants. The Saints LB's were solid, but not all world and they didn't single handedly change games or take their team to a championship.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Missed it again. Wife wanted to watch a movie. I'll watch it Sunday at 11AM. For the record I think it should be between the 70's Steelers and the 80's Giants. The Saints LB's were solid, but not all world and they didn't single handedly change games or take their team to a championship.

I think Pat Swilling was that kind of LB. He was great for a decent period of time. I do think they were the best but it would be pretty close for me between the Saints and the Giants.

[pjfootballer]

I think Pat Swilling was that kind of LB. He was great for a decent period of time. I do think they were the best but it would be pretty close for me between the Saints and the Giants.

Yeah, but I'd still have to rank them 3rd. I threw in the championships and such to separate the Steelers and Giants LBs, who in my opinion were a little more "dominating" than the Saints LBs.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Yeah, but I'd still have to rank them 3rd. I threw in the championships and such to separate the Steelers and Giants LBs, who in my opinion were a little more "dominating" than the Saints LBs.

I understand but they had a good offense to go with there defense. Saints didn't. That defense was exceptional and the key were the LBs. To me, it's between the Saints and the Giants. I like the over all talent of the Saints a bit more. Ricky Jackson, Sam Mills, Vaugh Johnson and Pat Swilling were unbelievable. I mean, if you really break down these two LBing crews, something really jumps out at you. LT is considered the most dominating OLB ever. He had 132 sacks in his career but few people realize that Ricky Jackson had 128 himself. If you just look at the best starting 4 LBs for each team, you got LT, Carl Banks, Pepper Johnson and Harry Carson. Now, LT and Carson are hall of famers and deservingly so. However, LT and Banks, combined for 165 sacks respectively during there careers. Jackson and Swilling combined for a total of 235. Banks was not nearly as dominating a pass rusher as Taylor. Carson was a great tackling MLB but Mills was right there with him. Pepper Johnson was a decent ILB with 2 Pro Bowls in his career but I can't say he was better then Vaughn Johnson was with his 4 Pro Bowls. In fact, I'd probably give the node to Johnson on that one. If you just compare the starting 4 LBs of both teams, I think New Orleans was more productive over there careers.

[pjfootballer]

I finally watched it. I'd still have to give it to the Giants and Steelers. I'll give more props to New Orleans than I had originally thought. To me, when you said Steelers LB's or Giants LB's, there was more fear of them than New Orleans (except if you are Roger Craig).

[ouvan59]

I understand but they had a good offense to go with there defense. Saints didn't.

The Saints had a very good offense many of those years. From 1986 to 1995 they were ranked in the top 10 in scoring offense 6 times and in the top 10 in scoring defense 6 times. In fact, they had a much better offense than the Giants in the 80s who only ranked in the top 10 in scoring 3 times.

[pjfootballer]

The Saints had a very good offense many of those years. From 1986 to 1995 they were ranked in the top 10 in scoring offense 6 times and in the top 10 in scoring defense 6 times. In fact, they had a much better offense than the Giants in the 80s who only ranked in the top 10 in scoring 3 times.

Bobby Hebert, Dalton Hilliard and company.

[mcarey032]

Yeah the steelers of the 70's were definitely the #1. I know that they had the front four who was awesome as well. However, they were a beast at LB Corps.

[ABQCOWBOY]

The Saints had a very good offense many of those years. From 1986 to 1995 they were ranked in the top 10 in scoring offense 6 times and in the top 10 in scoring defense 6 times. In fact, they had a much better offense than the Giants in the 80s who only ranked in the top 10 in scoring 3 times.

I remember those teams pretty well. I don't remember them having a great offense. 93 is really the last year you can go back and compare. That was really the last year that set of LBs was together for NO. I'd say you have to look from 86 to 93 to do an evaluation. Now, in those years, New Orleans had the following production. (players listed below are season leaders at QB, RB and WR)

1986

Dave Wilson QB 2353 Yds 10TDs/17INTs 55.3%

Reuben Mayes RB 1353 yards 4.7 PC 8 TDs

Eric Martin WR 37 Rec 625 Yds 5 TDs

1987

Bobby Hebert QB 2119 Yds 15TDs/9 INTs 55.8%

Reuben Mayes RB 917 Yds 3.8 PC 5 TDs

Eric Martin WR 44 Rec 778 Yds 7 TDs

1988

Bobby Hebert QB 3156 Yds 20TDs/15INTs 58.6%

Dalton Hilliard RB 828 Yds 4.0 PC 5 TDs

Eric Martin WR 85 Rec 1083 Yds 7 TDs

1989

Bobby Hebert QB 2686 Yds 7TDs/4INTs 57.0%

Dalton Hilliard RB 1262 Yds 3.7 PC 13 TDs

Eric Martin WR 68 Rec 1090 Yds 8 TDs

1990

Steve Walsh QB 1970 Yds 12TDs/13INTs 53.5%

Iron Head Hayword RB 599 Yds 4.6 PC 4 TDs

Eric Martin WR 63 Rec 912 Yds 5 TDs

1991

Bobby Hebert QB 1676 Yds 9TDs/8INTs 60.1%

Fred McAfee RB 494 Yds 2.6 PC 2 TDs

Eric Martin WR 66 Rec 803 Yds 4 TDs

1992

Bobby Hebert QB 3287 Yds 19TDs/16INTs 59.0%

Vaughn Dunbar RB 565 Yds 3.7 YPC 3 TDs

Eric Martin WR 68 Rec 1041 Yds 5 TDs

1993

Wade Wilson QB 2457 YDs 12TDs/15INTs 57.0%

Derek Brown RB 705 Yds 3.9 PC 2 TDs

Eric Martin WR 66 Rec 950 Yds 3 TDs

Now, in these 8 seasons, there was never a QB who threw for 4000 yards and only 2 seasons where a QB threw for over 3000. Only 1 season where a QB threw for 20 TDs, never more. In fact, the TD to INT ratio is pretty bad every year except 87 where it's 15 to 9 (still not great). Only one season where a QB throws for 60% or better (60.1% in 91).

Only two seasons where RBs rush for over a thousand yards and never more then 1353 Yds. Average over 4 yards a carry only once and only 1 season with double digit TDs only once.

Receiving numbers are a little bit better with three seasons of 1000 yards or better but never 100 Rec. and only one with over 70. No seasons in which a WR caught 10 TDs or more.

In no season did you ever have a QB throw for 3000, a RB rush for 1000 and a WR reach 1000 Yds.

There was never a great offense in NO during those years. I think that if you look, you will find that the Saints had a good scoring offense because there defense created a lot of TOs and typcially, the Saints O played on short fields many times. They were a big play offense that turned the ball over way too many times and did not produce sustained drives. On the other hand, the Giants offense during there hay day, lets say from 84 to 92, the Giants had 5 3000+ seasons and 1 4000+ Season. They had 4 seasons of better then 20 TDs. 6 seasons where RBs rushed for over a thousand yards. 6 seasons where RBs rushed for over 10 TDs and one season where Jo Morris rushed for 21. Only two season in which they had 1000 yard seasons from WRs but in both those seasons, 86 and 88, they had QBs throwing for over 3000 yards and 20 TDs. They had a RB rushing for over a thousand yards to go with the 1000 WR yards.

I don't think there's any way you can compare these two offenses and come to the conclusion that the Giants were not significantly better then was NOs. As I said earlier, if you take a real good look at how NOs scored points in those days, it was in large part, due to defensive generated TOs or very short fields because of how good the defense was. In no way would I call them a good offense.

[Meatsnack]

This has been an educational thread.

When I first read the list I was extremely skeptical that any LB corp could compare to the 80's Parcell's group or the Steel Curtain. But, upon actually looking at the production of the units involved, I have to say I think NFL Films got it right.

I remember being very impressed with Sam Mills, a guy who I thought played at a Mike Singletary level and got very little credit. He wasn't an intimidator like Butkus or a physical freak like Lanier but he covered lots of ground and took very few bad steps. Ricky Jackson is another guy who played lights out most nights but never got the credit playing in NO as opposed to NY. The rest of the guys I don't have any firm memories of. Mora did do a tremendous job of turning around a perpetually moribund franchise. It's a shame the guy is remembered for "Playoffs?!?!?" more than his coaching.

On the face of it, a list of Banks, Johnson, LT and Carson is as good or better than any who ever played. LT, who by himself changed the way the NFC East played offense for a decade, certainly swings a lot of weight. However, aside from LT, they didn't rush the passer as well. Of course, in a running conference like the NFC East they had less opportunity.

The Steel Curtain LB corp was also excellent, however, as has been pointed out by others the strength of that defense was its front. Joe Green was almost unblockable by himself but once they added some pieces around him, they were a great front four. Maybe as good as there has ever been.

Thanks to everyone for a great thread.

[C26 Run]

According to NFL Network

10. '00 Ravens

9. '76 Broncos

8. Early 80's Raiders

7. Mid-90's Steelers

6. Lombardi's Packers

5. '85 Bears

4. Stram's Chiefs

3. Parcell's Giants

2. '70's Steelers

1. Jim Mora's Saints

Two different eras of LB corps made this list for the Steelers. I still remember the "Avoid the Lloyd" chants. That's saying alot. But why the Saints are there? I just don't know.:helmet:

[pjfootballer]

Bump Old threads day. This is about the 4th one I've seen today.

[DCranon21]

Two different eras of LB corps made this list for the Steelers. I still remember the "Avoid the Lloyd" chants. That's saying alot. But why the Saints are there? I just don't know.:helmet:

C26..If you remember what the Saints LB'ers did in the 80s - mid 90s, they were one of the best. During the 80s - 90s, I would say the Giants LB'ers where the best. I can't really comment on the Steel Curtain LB'ers of the 70s, because I've never seen them play, but I do know they were great. My dad is a Pittsburg fan(unfortunately), but remembering when Cowher got there, It was Hardy Knickerson, Greg Lloyd, Levon Kirkland, and the other lb'er before Kevin Greene got there, and it was called "Blitzberg", and all they did was pressure the QB and just was disruptive. I would of rated the 90s Steelers LB'er a notch higher. I don't know about Hank Stram's LB'ers. I would of ranked the Steelers #1, Giants #2, and Saints #3, because of the Super Bowl factor. My :2cents:

[[[ghost]]]

I don't know, it seems like they were consistently putting three and four LB's in the pro bowl during that time frame. They had quite a crew, their problem was they had no team around them!:2cents:

Agreed. Those guys were made to play alongside each other. Unfortunetely, the rest of the team was made to play a differents port.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I would go with Giants #1, Steelers #2 (just because they played with an incredible front four), and maybe Saints #3.