Portis trade Confessions

[909997]

SnyderMustGo u still havent replied to my post #71

[elkabong82]

my question is how would portis's stats look like if he had a probowl QB like carson palmer and a HOF FB blocking for him

Well according to the stats Snydermustgo, a QB near the end of his career and a guy from the CFL are just as good, and shouldn't be taken in to consideration at all. Same with injuries, games started, and how long a player has been in the system. Blocking, leadership, and positive attitude apparently aren't factors either.

Also, according to Snydermustgo's argument, Brian Westbrook is barely more than a top 20 back.

[funguy1286]

I dont understand how SnyderMustGo keeps bringing up that portis doesnt have top 5 stats

yet he has more rushing yards then LT last 2 years

iam not gonna count this year because he was injured

its also funny how u think portis is a system RB

how about LJ? KC has had #'s of good RB's in their oline and put up monster #'s

look at LJ's stats he loses his FB and LT his ypc goes from 5.2 to 4.3

what if portis played for KC or chargers? they have monster Oline and hall of fame FB's

if your gonna bring out his lack of production then bring out the players around him too.

lets look at some top RB"s in the game today

Ladainian Tomlinson-Probowl QB, HOF FB, Probowl TE.

Shaun Alexander-Probowl QB, Best RT,RG in NFL, HOF FB.

Steven Jackson-Probowl QB, 2 HOF WR's, HOF RT.

Rudi Johnson-Probowl QB, 2nd best WR corp in nfl.

And what does portis have? Mark Brunell, and a young TE, WR that cant stay healthy.

Way to diminish your favorite team to try and bolster Clinton Portis. Portis has one of the best offensive lines in the NFL, a fullback by the name of Mike Sellers who should be a probowler, and a very good young tight end. I'd say Portis has as much working in his favor as the other guys. He is just simply not as good.

[SnyderMustGo]

I've made my point many times now. Your post doesn't present any new issue or anything else that I would need to address other than trying to come up with excuses why Portis isn't above #10 on the productivity list in the last 3 years. If you think you do have some new point, then try to put it down in a direct question and I'll answer it.

[SnyderMustGo]

Way to diminish your favorite team to try and bolster Clinton Portis. Portis has one of the best offensive lines in the NFL, a fullback by the name of Mike Sellers who should be a probowler, and a very good young tight end. I'd say Portis has as much working in his favor as the other guys. He is just simply not as good.

This is one of the things that I was saying pissed me off about this team right now. It's designed to foster player-worship instead of team-worship.

These people are discrediting the entire team because they want to try to pump up one player.

It's quite sick.

[SnyderMustGo]

And no one wants to take me up on the bet about Portis finishing in the top 5 this year in yards or TDs?

[GroundNPound]

I am not one to typically get fired up when discussing opinions. I am even willing to merit valid arguments and concede where need be. But this post was nothing short of pure garbage. This is in response to SnyderMustGo's post on page 2.

Let's take this a point at a time.

1."Portis is not a top 5 back. The numbers prove it. Since he has been here, he has been around the 10th rated RB in the NFL. He is not the monster everyone wants to belive. He was that monster in the Denver system, but he is not in that system anymore."

I'll even agree with you here. Numbers wise he is about 10th since he's been with the skins. I'll give 2004... he had a mediocre year. In 2006 he was injured. Other than that his stats are fantastic. The last couple years our O-line has been becoming increasingly consistent... And it was anything but in '04.

2. "He is better than Betts. But not appreciably better than Betts"

I believe Betts is a fantastic backup, and a good starter. But you honestly believe this statement? Betts doesn't have the speed, cutting ability, ability to make people miss or break tackles that Portis does. He has soft hands and he gets momentum running into his assigned lane whether its there or not. That is what he does. He is a good back w/ a good line. He isn't half the player Portis is w/ out the ball in his hands, especially when it comes to pass protection. He also does have a knack for fumbling at inopportune times.

3. "When you have lots of holes on a team, you have to try to fill them by getting rid of luxuries to get necessities. Right now, Portis is a luxury. Betts is good enough to be a playoff contender with. Thus, the extent to which Portis is better than Betts is a mere luxury."

"We can trade Portis and hope to get some help on the DL or OL. Maybe get a decent draft pick for him that we can turn into a starter on the DL or OL."

Depth at one of the most important spots at the roster isn't a luxury. CP, Betts, Rock/Blaylock is called great depth. Last year CP went down and Betts performed fantastically. But you are willing to stake a fantastic running tandem who we have signed for years to come and are in their prime for "filling holes"? No NFL team is perfect. Each has strengths and weaknesses. Our Dline doesn’t have any real depth. But you take away CP, and neither does our running core. And do you honestly believe that CP is only worth a 2-3rd round pick? Or a couple of them? We would get about the same compensation for him as Betts. The likelihood that we could get compensation for what he is worth is little to nil'. And say you even got a high first round pick for him? He is a proven back in the NFL. You are going to trade him for a gamble on starters? Our O-line only needs a little depth. Our D-line had injury problems last year, and does need depth. And even if you didn't believe Golston and Montgomery will do well w/ more time to develop. Do you believe we are going to get a starter on the D-line at end worthy of us trading Clinton Portis away? Which brings us to our next part...

4. "It's pretty simple math: if Portis is X better than Betts, and by trading Portis you can get Y better at DE, then you do it if X < Y. Or, if you are a Madden person, as so many on here appear to be, assume Portis is a 90, Betts an 84. By trading Portis, you can get a 82 DE to replace 72 Daniels [all numbers were completely pulled out of the air to prove the point about improving elsewhere]. I would do that trade. This is about building a better team across the board so we can compete for championships. This isn't about getting star worship."

I love madden. Its a fun game. Key word... GAME. I can't believe you attempted to emphasize on your opinion by referencing Madden. If you truly believe in this paragraph listed above... we can discuss it further. Its not worth the energy needed to type the letters needed to compile the words and sentences which would explain how ignorant this is. Next point.

5. "Now I wouldn't do this is Portis was special. You don't trade LT no matter how many other position you can improve. But Portis is NOT special. And his performance here in Washington shows that (you can't count his performance in Denver when determining his value to this team--you only look at what he has done with this team). He is very good, but not special. Betts is good, too. While Portis is a little better, you can still win with Betts."

Reference point 1.

6. "That's what I believe based purely on on-the-field player management issues. But in addition to that, I'd trade Portis because I am tired of his act and embarrassed that he is considered the face of this franchise. Betts is a homegrown Redskin that is someone this franchise should be proud of from a character perspective. Portis is a loud-mouth U guy who is always talking about how great he is and what he is going to do, but he never does it. And this recent comment from him that he is going to do more of that stupid interview nonsense "just to piss off the haters" really disgusts me. Screw Portis. Portis is about Portis. His statement that he would restructure (which has nothing to do with him losing money or giving anything up) doesn't make it otherwise."

"On the field, I'd trade Portis and go with Betts if you can improve other areas needed for improvement. Getting rid of Portis and his antics off the field would merely be an added benefit."

Portis is a player who gives everything he has to every play of every game. He is charismatic and likes to lighten the mood and stand out in the crowd. Portis is a player that looks after himself, but he plays as a team players. He got angry about an injury and gave his opinion that pre-season games are unnecessary. Who cares? He isn't bad mouthing the team, the players, or the coaches. He is just disagreeing with a league policy because he went out of his way to help his team in a pre-season game and got injured. He never trash talks about his own teammates or whines about coaching. 99% of the time he has something positive to say. Now that we have Landry.. lets trade away ST. He's gotten a DUI and tried to shoot someone w/ an AK47.

By the time I post this I am willing to bet all these points have been argued. But this is the first time I have read something this bad and had the urge to respond to it.

[elkabong82]

I don't know why I have NNT's so if a MOD could let me know that would be great. However, what does this even have to do with knowledge of football? Seems like a pretty pretentious argument to me.

NNT receive the label for creating terrible threads. Generally, if the mods go far enough to give someone this label, they have earned it. Last I checked, having quality discussions and contributing good football knowledge is not something indicative of a person who creates threads so bad they lose the privilege to do so. So it is relevant. Besides, someone stating their opinion of who is a better running back, with no kind of support whatsoever, and then continues on in the same post pretending their opinion is all of a sudden fact, is pretentious.

[909997]

Way to diminish your favorite team to try and bolster Clinton Portis. Portis has one of the best offensive lines in the NFL, a fullback by the name of Mike Sellers who should be a probowler, and a very good young tight end. I'd say Portis has as much working in his favor as the other guys. He is just simply not as good.

how can mike sellers be on the probowl? hes better then mack strong now?

and how is portis working with the same favor of guys like other top 5 backs

so u think mark brunell is good as guys like carson palmer, marc bulger, drew brees, peyton manning?

and chris cooley is good as tony gonzalez, and antanio gates?

and teams like KC, chargers, indi, saints, seattle, and bengals have better Oline then redskins.

[elkabong82]

This is one of the things that I was saying pissed me off about this team right now. It's designed to foster player-worship instead of team-worship.

These people are discrediting the entire team because they want to try to pump up one player.

It's quite sick.

Waht, and advocating silly trades that won't happen simply because you don't like a guy isn't sick? It doesn't piss of others? The Patriots are used as the ultimate example of team-worship right now, but there are plenty of people hanging all over Tom Brady. Player worship happens no matter what. You obviously have some beef with the Skins, and it goes beyond that. If your so sick of this team, then why do you continue to frequent their fan site? What do you expect, everyone here to be doom and gloom like you? If you really want to go to a board where everyone agrees with your opinions/hatred, then maybe you should check out the boards of the NFC East rivals. We have fans from the NFC East rivals come here all the time.

[funguy1286]

how can mike sellers be on the probowl? hes better then mack strong now?

and how is portis working with the same favor of guys like other top 5 backs

so u think mark brunell is good as guys like carson palmer, marc bulger, drew brees, peyton manning?

and chris cooley is good as tony gonzalez, and antanio gates?

and teams like KC, chargers, indi, saints, seattle, and bengals have better Oline then redskins.

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Article.php?Page=1024&Category=2

According to this we had the third best offensive line in the entire NFL. New Orleans was 5th, Indianapolis was 11th, Kansas City was 19th, and Seattle and Kansas City were tied for 25th. The only team rated better on your list was the Chargers.

You're right though, those teams have much better o-lines then the Redskins.

[909997]

This is one of the things that I was saying pissed me off about this team right now. It's designed to foster player-worship instead of team-worship.

These people are discrediting the entire team because they want to try to pump up one player.

It's quite sick.

iam soooo sorry i said mark brunell isnt good as guys like hasselbeck, brees, manning and palmer.

what was i thinking when i said antanio gates and tony G are better then chris cooley.

Your right thier is no way colts, chargers, KC, and Oline is better then redskins. I mean they only dominated the last 5 years or so.

and oh yeah mike sellers is diffidently a HOF FB.

[elkabong82]

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Article.php?Page=1024&Category=2

according to this we had the third best offensive line in the entire NFL. New Orleans was 5th, Indianapolis was 11th, Kansas City was 19th, and the Seattle and Kansas City were tied for 25th. The only team rated better on your list was the Chargers.

You're right though, those teams have much better o-lines then the Redskins.

Except that o-line rating is during '06, in which Portis only started 7 games.

[elkabong82]

iam soooo sorry i said mark brunell isnt good as guys like hasselbeck, brees, manning and palmer.

what was i thinking when i said antanio gates and tony G are better then chris cooley.

Your right thier is no way colts, chargers, KC, and Oline is better then redskins. I mean they only dominated the last 5 years or so.

and oh yeah mike sellers is diffidently a HOF FB.

He's not even worth responding to anymore. He isn't responding to any of the valid points, instead just spouting anger and biased opinion. He is advocating the trade of Portis simply because he doesn't like the guy, and he won't even refute this. He can't really, because he already has admitted Portis is at least a top 10 back, and trading a top 10 back is stupid, no matter how you spin stats.

[funguy1286]

Except that o-line rating is during '06, in which Portis only started 7 games.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol2004.php

Okay fine this source rates us 5th in 2005.

[elkabong82]

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol2004.php

Okay fine this source rates us 5th in 2005.

And Portis had numbers of a top 5 back in '05.

[funguy1286]

NNT receive the label for creating terrible threads. Generally, if the mods go far enough to give someone this label, they have earned it. Last I checked, having quality discussions and contributing good football knowledge is not something indicative of a person who creates threads so bad they lose the privilege to do so. So it is relevant. Besides, someone stating their opinion of who is a better running back, with no kind of support whatsoever, and then continues on in the same post pretending their opinion is all of a sudden fact, is pretentious.

I gave my reasons why I feel Betts is as capable as Portis. Nowhere did i claim my feelings to be fact. For some reason if you feel differently than the majority of most of the people here it means you are a bad fan or don't know anything about football. However, i am gonna stand by my opinion that Betts can be as capable as Portis and if we were able to trade Portis for very good value I would absolutely pull the trigger. Just my opinion though.

[funguy1286]

And Portis had numbers of a top 5 back in '05.

I didn't say Portis did not have a great year in '05. I was responding to 909997's argument that all those teams he mentioned have better offensive lines then us.

However, who is to say Betts wouldnt have put up well over 1500 yards in '05? For God sakes if you stretched his numbers out from last year over a 16 game period he would have had around 2,000 yards.

[funguy1286]

iam soooo sorry i said mark brunell isnt good as guys like hasselbeck, brees, manning and palmer.

what was i thinking when i said antanio gates and tony G are better then chris cooley.

Your right thier is no way colts, chargers, KC, and Oline is better then redskins. I mean they only dominated the last 5 years or so.

and oh yeah mike sellers is diffidently a HOF FB.

In '05 Brunnell was absolutely one of the better Qb's in the league.

Thats fine that you think those O-lines are better than the Redskins; however, numbers say otherwise.

Not once did anyone say Mike Sellers is a HOF FB. However, he has absolutely been playing at a Probowl level the past couple of years.

Stop discrediting other members of the team because of your obvious huge man crush on Clinton Portis.

[HailSkinz1]

This has really turned ridiculous. Once again, ES'ers putting words in people's mouths. No one is "advocating" trading Portis just to trade him. But seriously, you really think Portis should be untouchable? I just don't believe it.

Let's say Julius Peppers became disgruntled and wanted out of Carolina and Carolina came to us and offered Peppers, Steve Smith, and a first round pick for Portis. Or pick whoever you want in a trade scenario (Peyton, Brady, LT, Merriman, etc). You'd still say no???

I know that won't happen, but this thread didn't stipulate who Portis would be traded for. The point being, yes, if you think you can upgrade your team, you trade Portis or anyone else.

It's really not rocket science.

Since no one is willing to take on SMG's bet offer, I'm curious, who here honestly would not trade Portis no matter what the offer was? No matter how much better the team would be? If you wouldn't, then you clearly are a Portis fan and not a Redskins fan. Fans don't put players above the team.

Hail,

H

[909997]

In '05 Brunnell was absolutely one of the better Qb's in the league.

Thats fine that you think those O-lines are better than the Redskins; however, numbers say otherwise.

Not once did anyone say Mike Sellers is a HOF FB. However, he has absolutely been playing at a Probowl level the past couple of years.

Stop discrediting other members of the team because of your obvious huge man crush on Clinton Portis.

so can u honestly tell me portis has the same level of talent on his offense as chargers, seattle, rams, bengals, colts, saints?

[Koolblue13]

There will be no bad mouthing of our offensive line. That is rediculous. Our line has been one of the best in the league for years now. We have 2 potential HOFers and one of the best 2 bookends league wide. Thank you.

[funguy1286]

This has really turned ridiculous. Once again, ES'ers putting words in people's mouths. No one is "advocating" trading Portis just to trade him. But seriously, you really think Portis should be untouchable? I just don't believe it.

Let's say Julius Peppers became disgruntled and wanted out of Carolina and Carolina came to us and offered Peppers, Steve Smith, and a first round pick for Portis. Or pick whoever you want in a trade scenario (Peyton, Brady, LT, Merriman, etc). You'd still say no???

I know that won't happen, but this thread didn't stipulate who Portis would be traded for. The point being, yes, if you think you can upgrade your team, you trade Portis or anyone else.

It's really not rocket science.

Since no one is willing to take on SMG's bet offer, I'm curious, who here honestly would not trade Portis no matter what the offer was? No matter how much better the team would be? If you wouldn't, then you clearly are a Portis fan and not a Redskins fan. Fans don't put players above the team.

Hail,

H

Thank you. These people don't understand that if we can make the team BETTER by trading Portis we absolutely should do it.

[McD5]

I didn't say Portis did not have a great year in '05. I was responding to 909997's argument that all those teams he mentioned have better offensive lines then us.

However, who is to say Bett's wouldnt have put up well over 1500 yards in '05? For God sakes if you stretched his numbers out from last year over a 16 game period he would have had around 2,000 yards.

You are right on 100%. Portis is an east-west rusher.

Betts runs north-south, and just runs over people.

But the Portis man-love here is strong....nearing a homosexual level in some cases.

[909997]

Thank you. These people don't understand that if we can make the team BETTER by trading Portis we absolutely should do it.

but then again which team would offer something like that?

if we get a offer like that

iam willing to trade any one player on the team even if its sean taylor.