Portis trade Confessions

[McD5]

This has really turned ridiculous. Once again, ES'ers putting words in people's mouths. No one is "advocating" trading Portis just to trade him. But seriously, you really think Portis should be untouchable? I just don't believe it.

Let's say Julius Peppers became disgruntled and wanted out of Carolina and Carolina came to us and offered Peppers, Steve Smith, and a first round pick for Portis. Or pick whoever you want in a trade scenario (Peyton, Brady, LT, Merriman, etc). You'd still say no???

I know that won't happen, but this thread didn't stipulate who Portis would be traded for. The point being, yes, if you think you can upgrade your team, you trade Portis or anyone else.

It's really not rocket science.

Since no one is willing to take on SMG's bet offer, I'm curious, who here honestly would not trade Portis no matter what the offer was? No matter how much better the team would be? If you wouldn't, then you clearly are a Portis fan and not a Redskins fan. Fans don't put players above the team.

:applause: Great Post.

Hail,

H

[funguy1286]

so can u honestly tell me portis has the same level of talent on his offense as chargers, seattle, rams, bengals, colts, saints?

Well somehow this discussion has moved from offensive line talent to overall offensive talent (maybe because I showed you how ridiculous your claims were about our o-line)

HOWEVER, if you want to move in this direction thats fine. I can honestly tell you that I think we have near the same level of offensive talent as all those teams you mentioned other then the bengals, colts and maybe the chargers.

[ClintonINFORSIX26]

This has really turned ridiculous. Once again, ES'ers putting words in people's mouths. No one is "advocating" trading Portis just to trade him. But seriously, you really think Portis should be untouchable? I just don't believe it.

Let's say Julius Peppers became disgruntled and wanted out of Carolina and Carolina came to us and offered Peppers, Steve Smith, and a first round pick for Portis. Or pick whoever you want in a trade scenario (Peyton, Brady, LT, Merriman, etc). You'd still say no???

I know that won't happen, but this thread didn't stipulate who Portis would be traded for. The point being, yes, if you think you can upgrade your team, you trade Portis or anyone else.

It's really not rocket science.

Since no one is willing to take on SMG's bet offer, I'm curious, who here honestly would not trade Portis no matter what the offer was? No matter how much better the team would be? If you wouldn't, then you clearly are a Portis fan and not a Redskins fan. Fans don't put players above the team.

Hail,

H

Now that is just a crazy senario, of course everyone would take that deal. But everyones man crush on Betts needs to stop, Portis is clearly the better back and if don't see that ur just blinding yourself from the truth. Your willing to bet our season and franchise on a guy who is just average. I could have ran for 1,100 yards with our oline last year because they were creating holes the size of a city block the last 5 games. Had Portis not went on IR we would not even be talking about this because he would have had a 1,600 or 1,700 yard season because he can explode throught the hole, get passed the second level, and HOLD ONTO THE BALL.

[909997]

Well somehow this discussion has moved from offensive line talent to overall offensive talent (maybe because I showed you how ridiculous your claims were about our o-line)

HOWEVER, if you want to move in this direction thats fine. I can honestly tell you that I think we have near the same level of offensive talent as all those teams you mentioned other then the bengals, colts and maybe the chargers.

first of all i never started the discussion about offensive line talent u did

i started a discussion about offensive talent and offensive lines just happen to be one of my examples.

and we might have weapons similar to them but we dont have the most important one a QB.

we sow our running game work better with campbell at QB shouldnt we wait untill we see portis take some snaps then judge him?

[funguy1286]

Now that is just a crazy senario, of course everyone would take that deal. But everyones man crush on Betts needs to stop, Portis is clearly the better back and if don't see that ur just blinding yourself from the truth. Your willing to bet our season and franchise on a guy who is just average. I could have ran for 1,100 yards with our oline last year because they were creating holes the size of a city block the last 5 games. Had Portis not went on IR we would not even be talking about this because he would have had a 1,600 or 1,700 yard season because he can explode throught the hole, get passed the second level, and HOLD ONTO THE BALL.

I love how everyone claims Portis has this second gear that enables him to hit the home runs. Other then his first carry as a Redskin (64 yard TD) Portis' longest run as a Redskin is 47 yards. Pretty big home run hitter huh?

[funguy1286]

first of all i never started the discussion about offensive line talent u did

i started a discussion about offensive talent and offensive lines just happen to be one of my examples.

and we might have weapons similar to them but we dont have the most important one a QB.

we sow our running game work better with campbell at QB shouldnt we wait untill we see portis take some snaps then judge him?

While you may have started the discussion about overall offensive talent you did say this "KC, chargers, indi, saints, seattle, and bengals have better Oline then redskins."

This statement opened up a can of worms because it is completely FALSE.

[909997]

While you may have started the discussion about overall offensive talent you did say this "KC, chargers, indi, saints, seattle, and bengals have better Oline then redskins."

This statement opened up a can of worms because it is completely FALSE.

is it?

wouldnt u agree our 06 Oline was better then 05 one?

[ClintonINFORSIX26]

I love how everyone claims Portis has this second gear that enables him to hit the home runs. Other then his first carry as a Redskin (64 yard TD) Portis' longest run as a Redskin is 47 yards. Pretty big home run hitter huh?

The longest run of Betts career is 27 yards, hmmm Portis last year had a 30 yard run against Houston, a 34 yard run against Indy, and 38 yard run against Dallas.

Bottom line u make such great arguements.

[funguy1286]

is it?

wouldnt u agree our 06 Oline was better then 05 one?

Why do you say that? Is it because Betts did so well that you think it MUST be because the offensive line was better for him then they were for Portis? Give me a break, it was the same offensive line.

[funguy1286]

The longest run of Betts career is 27 yards, hmmm Portis last year had a 30 yard run against Houston, a 34 yard run against Indy, and 38 yard run against Dallas.

Bottom line u make such great arguements.

My argument was not that Ladell Betts is a home run hitter, it was that Portis is not the home run hitter everyone here makes him out to be, way to spin what I said.

However, with Betts carrying the load who knows what he may accomplish. Maybe there is a reason Portis has a few more runs of over 25 yards then Betts. Maybe that reason is that Betts has has had EIGHT-HUNDRED AND NINETEEN LESS CARRIES then Clinton Portis.

Clinton Portis total carries in his career: 1385

Ladell Betts total carries in his career: 566

[ClintonINFORSIX26]

My argument was not that Ladell Betts is a home run hitter, it was that Portis is not the home run hitter everyone here makes him out to be, way to spin what I said.

However, with Betts carrying the load who knows what he may accomplish. Maybe there is a reason Portis has a few more runs of over 25 yards then Betts. Maybe that reason is that Betts has has had EIGHT-HUNDRED AND NINETEEN LESS CARRIES then Clinton Portis.

Clinton Portis total carries in his career: 1385

Ladell Betts total carries in his career: 566

Or it could just be that Betts doesnt have the speed, he certainly had the holes. It has nothing to do with the amount of carries.

[Dirk Diggler]

If I wanted to be a jerk about his injury, I compare last year and his performance. But I'm looking at a 3 year period, which is the time he has been in Washington. And over that time, he has not produced like a top 5 back that we gave up the games clear #1 CB as well as a 2nd round draft pick for.

Actually, you are a jerk for only taking a 3 year period when Portis's shoulder was mangled for one of those seasons. That's too small of a sample. If you had any sense you'd just throw out the anamoly - which was 2006. I see you ignored my case example in post #62 which blows to shreds your short-sighted so called analysis.

Portis was on a Hall of Fame pace during the first 4 years of his career in terms of rushing yards per game. IIRC only Jim Brown and Eric Dickerson were better to start their careers. That's pretty freakin exclusive company. Better than Emmitt Smith, Barry Sanders, Ladanian Tomlinson, etc.

But now after one injury filled season - he's the 10th best back in the league? Um, ok.

No. I hold him accountable for his frality.

Frality and toughness is a HUGE factor in determining how good a RB is. Just like blocking and pass catching and speed, the ability to STAY HEALTHY is an essential component in determining how good a running back is. If you have a runningback who average 10 ypc, but he can only play 3 games a season because he gets injured all the time, you don't overlook that in determining their value.

An absurd analogy. Portis missed a handful of games (3) in 4 years. That makes him frail? Portis actually gets dinged quite a bit but plays through it because he's one tough SOB.

[909997]

Why do you say that? Is it because Betts did so well that you think it MUST be because the offensive line was better for him then they were for Portis? Give me a break, it was the same offensive line.

well our oline has been great last 2 years no doubt about that

but this year our running game worked better after campbell took over.

anyway the point i wanted to make was portis did well last 2 years

but if u look at last 5 years the most constant olines in nfl was denver, indi, seattle, KC, and denver.

last few years washington redskins and bengals oline got better.

so yes teams like KC,colts,seattle,chargers,cinn do have better oline then the redskins last 5 years.

i would put redskins top 5 in oline last 2 years and portis has been putting up top 5 #'s

[Dirk Diggler]

I addressed the myth that Portis is on par with Betts back in January.

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3398547#post3398547

Since 2004, CP has 909 touches for 3975 yards, 25 TDs, and 8 fumbles. He has 4.1 yards per carry and 4.37 yards per touch. He scores a TD every 36 touches and fumbles every 114 touches. His longest runs each season since 2004 were 64, 47, 38 respectively.

Since 2004, LB has 502 touches for 2494 yards, 8 TDs, and 9 fumbles. He has 4.4 yards per carry and 4.96 yards per touch. He scores a TD every 63 touches and fumbles every 56 touches. His longest runs each season since 2004 were 27, 22, 26 respectively.

Edge to Portis in: scoring, big-play ability, ball security, intangibles and pass protection

Edge to Betts in: receiving ability, yards per touch

Durability is a wash.

Summary: Surprisingly, Betts gets the edge in yards per touch suggesting that he MIGHT be a little more consistent at getting the 6 or 7 yard runs since he doesn’t have the explosive runs that usually help maintain a high YPT. However, Portis did have to endure very inconsistent line play in 2004 for a good portion of his touches. Portis enjoyed excellent line play in 2005 while Betts has enjoyed the same this season. I consider pass protection to be a very underrated yet essential aspect of running back play and CP gets a major edge there.

The things that Betts does well are easier to replace. LB gets what’s there and he’s very steady. But, Portis’s ability to find the endzone and overall skill set make him clearly the better player.

[funguy1286]

Or it could just be that Betts doesnt have the speed, he certainly had the holes. It has nothing to do with the amount of carries.

so you dont think if Betts had carried the ball 819 more times in his career he wouldnt have a few runs over 30 yards? Give me a break.

[909997]

cant we all just be happy we have 2 good RB's

trading portis would be stupid

especially because ladell betts is very injury prone and starting him would be scary

betts gets injured pretty much every year and he does it awile being a backup

can u honestly trust a guy who cant keep healthy as a backup to take over the starting job?

how about we keep em both and run the ball 40 times a game?

[leo2k2ndc]

All we need to do is hold on to both of them, cause if portis, god forbids gets hurt again, atleast our season wont be down the toilet

[Fifty Gut]

Wow, the haters came out for this thread. Please stop comparing a RB to other positions on a football team when it comes to the preseason. Ball carriers get far more physical, violent contact than any other position on the team (without all the protection [QB]). That's why they call them bell cows, in a good offense, the RB is second only to a QB/Center in touches per game.

[redskinsfan1201]

Its offense not offence, and I don't know why anybody ever wanted our best player on O to be traded.

[ClintonINFORSIX26]

so you dont think if Betts had carried the ball 819 more times in his career he wouldnt have a few runs over 30 yards? Give me a break.

Hmm Portis had all those runs IN ONE SEASON.

He has season longs of 59,65,64,47,38 in his career. Betts career long is 27 yards, carries dont matter hes just not as explosive bottom line.

[909997]

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=185139

[monkforhall]

No. How about Monk for my avatar? Or Gibbs I? Or Sonny? Or any of the people who made this franchise proud, great and successful?

As opposed to this current crop of embarassaments brought to us by the worst Front Office in the NFL, presided over by Gibbs II who lost everything that made Gibbs I great. Now its all about talk and show and trying to sell jerseys and t-shirts. Get your new Lloyd jerseys here! Get your Taylor/Archuleta/Landry Bash Brothers t-shirts here! Get your Southeast Jerome t-shirt here! Buy your club level season tickets now because we are going to the SB this year!

Screw all of that. To see the group of people we have out there strutting during timeouts to music while we are getting beat on the scoreboard (and seeing Joe not pull the guys immediately) is an embarassment to the class that Art Monk brought to the field (and you salute with your user name).

I want someone to buy this team and will give it to a President/General Manager who will build a champion ground up of proud, hard workers who are here to bring the franchise glory, not themselves. I want a coach who demands perfection, and if prima donnas act up, they get cut. I want a team I can call the Redskins of home grown players, not high-price mercenaries. I want a team where the fans love the team, not a bunch of "look at me" stars. I want a team that is competitive year in and year out that is deep and dedicated. Not a "win-now" with razor thin depth because we pay for "stars."

I'm sick of all the losing and all the minor fixes this team does instead of rebuilding this right. I'm sick of the lack of pride and character.

If that makes me a Cowboys fan in your eyes, then I suggest you get a little grounding. I am a Redskins fan. Not a Portis fan or a Taylor fan or a U fan or a Gibbs II fan. I am a Redskins fan. And I want them to be a proud and successful franchise. Not a once-proud and once-successful franchise. If we can't win the Super Bowls right away, we can get the pride back right away and work on the Super Bowls.

I loved those teams as well. But it sounds like you absolutely hate and despise this team. What makes you a fan? You hate the players and hate the ownership? So what do you like? The uniform for the history it represents? I'm sick of losing as much as anyone. But i'll still support the players, coaches and owners that currently are the Redskins. The past is gone.

[ScottAH87]

I loved those teams as well. But it sounds like you absolutely hate and despise this team. What makes you a fan? You hate the players and hate the ownership? So what do you like? The uniform for the history it represents? I'm sick of losing as much as anyone. But i'll still support the players, coaches and owners that currently are the Redskins. The past is gone.

Thank you sir. Directly on point, i couldnt have said it better. What is this guy doing every sunday while watching the game. Who could sit there in a redskins jersey and dislike almost everything about the team. this guy needs to get with the times or find another team. so please SMG, what is it that you do like about the CURRENT REDSKINS?????

[HailSkinz1]

Now that is just a crazy senario, of course everyone would take that deal. But everyones man crush on Betts needs to stop, Portis is clearly the better back and if don't see that ur just blinding yourself from the truth. Your willing to bet our season and franchise on a guy who is just average. I could have ran for 1,100 yards with our oline last year because they were creating holes the size of a city block the last 5 games. Had Portis not went on IR we would not even be talking about this because he would have had a 1,600 or 1,700 yard season because he can explode throught the hole, get passed the second level, and HOLD ONTO THE BALL.

But that's the point. People in this thread are saying they would not trade Portis under any scenario. If that's not true, then guess what, you all have spent a lot of time blowing smoke because you agree with me and the others who are trying to tell you the team is bigger than the individual.

My point from the beginning was that I was against trading Portis because we couldn't get anything for him (of value to us). No one is saying give the guy away.

And this isn't a Portis vs. Betts thread. It's a "Dont trade Portis" thread. Even SMG said that Portis was a better player, but if you can trade a good player to make your team better, you do it.

Sounds like we are starting to agree now that the "don't trade Portis under any circumstance" crowd has seen the light.

Hail,

H

[onnie007]

so was tikki for the first part of his career. maybe Betts will hold the ball differently and it wont be a problem for him anymore

Actually no, even then Betts still wouldn't be that good. He still needs to learn to make more than one cut and understand the concept of the cutback. Unfortunately, its too late at this juncture for Betts to learn these things or to somehow acquire more talent that he just wasn't born with. We should have traded him while his value was still hot.