Awesome Posted December 9, 2002 Share Posted December 9, 2002 ASF, just wanted to get your thoughts on your boy McCants' stellar, game-losing, total boneheaded performance yesterday. I bet you weren't doing your Touchdown McCants dance yesterday afternoon, and neither was he. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thito_da_skins_fan Posted December 9, 2002 Share Posted December 9, 2002 i don't have anything against ASF, but i have to admit i was thinking the same thing during the game yesterday... on a side note, however, i do like McCants... but, he did cost us the game yesterday, IMO... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog Posted December 9, 2002 Share Posted December 9, 2002 two points: 1. McCants didn't cost us the game any more than Derrius Thompson or Champ Bailey did. Thompson cost us a 3 or 7 point drive in the first half on another fumbled pass and Bailey had a horrible game, giving up a touchdown pass and muffing the punt that REALLY turned the momentum back to the Giants. 2. Perhaps we would be seeing less mistakes from McCants, Bauman, Ohalete, and several other younger players if we had been smart enough to play them earlier in the season and allow them to get some experience. Instead McCants, Betts, Ramsey and a host of others sat on the bench while we went about losing games with limited players at qb and wr, some of whom are already gone :mad: now we are going to have to go through the pains in Week 13 that we should have been going through in weeks 4, 5 and 6. after the stretch of games where we lost to the Eagles, 49ers, Saints and Packers this season was for all intents and purposes over. we just didn't have horses to compete with the best teams. And we should have changed course and done what rebuilding teams do, rebuild with our youth and get the limited veterans who are not going to be part of our future off the field Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlanta Skins Fan Posted December 9, 2002 Share Posted December 9, 2002 Originally posted by mphilips16 ASF, just wanted to get your thoughts on your boy McCants' stellar, game-losing, total boneheaded performance yesterday. I bet you weren't doing your Touchdown McCants dance yesterday afternoon, and neither was he. The taunting penalty was boneheaded. If he gets flagged again for that, I'll really be p!ssed. But I'll give him one rookie-get-out-of-bonehead-play-free card. As for the fumble, the ball was stripped. Serwanga made a beautiful play, punching the ball up from behind. Yes, it would have been nice for McCants to hold on, but sometimes you need to credit the opposition. Of the five fumbles, that fumble seemed the least on the player (McCants), especially when you consider the opposite (Champ's unforced muff). But the timing of the fumble was brutal, and that's what fans remember. I'm not sure why you're celebrating this moment. I don't know about you, but I'm pulling for our young talent like Ramsey, Betts, McCants, Bauman and L. Jackson to come through for us. Until I've seen more bad performances than good performances from these guys, I'm still pulling for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thito_da_skins_fan Posted December 9, 2002 Share Posted December 9, 2002 Originally posted by Atlanta Skins Fan But the timing of the fumble was brutal, and that's what fans remember. the "timing" is the key word... no ONE player single-handedly loses a game for a team, but he should shoulder a lot of blame... i still like him and hopefully he can improve... he seems to have a lot of potential... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awesome Posted December 9, 2002 Author Share Posted December 9, 2002 Don't think that I'm celebrating this moment, just trying to have some good-natured fun the day after another turnover riddled loss. You've been singing the praises of McCants all season and he's made a few very good plays. But that taunting call, as well as the fumble, will be what every Redksins fan remembers about McCants' 2002 season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted December 9, 2002 Share Posted December 9, 2002 While I don't think McCants is quite as ready for prime time as Gardner has proven to be, I have to agree with ASF that the underlying goal as a fan is to identify possible stars on our team and to root for them. McCants didn't play well and certainly hurt his chances to contribute for Spurrier. But, he had flashes of speed and power that you haven't seen from any other receiver on our roster and that can't go unnoticed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog Posted December 9, 2002 Share Posted December 9, 2002 what fans here are not used to and not prepared for is seeing players go through the maturation process. everyone around here buys into the hype of the big moves made in the offseason to get one or two name players and forgets that a team has to develop a roster of 45 contributors that process often starts with talented players who make mistakes as they learn. what is funny is that Spurrier allowed Wuerffel to make a LOT of mistakes earlier on in the season and still he managed to resurface as the starter. yet, there is a short leash on other players, eh? :laugh: interesting. McCants makes two regrettable plays yet Wuerffel has something like 6 sacks, 4 fumbles and 2 interceptions in 25-30 plays on the field and yet HE gets to go back in as the starter a couple of weeks ago? seems there is a double standard out there somewhere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo-toni Posted December 9, 2002 Share Posted December 9, 2002 Originally posted by Atlanta Skins Fan I don't know about you, but I'm pulling for our young talent like Ramsey, Betts, McCants, Bauman and L. Jackson to come through for us. Until I've seen more bad performances than good performances from these guys, I'm still pulling for them. Right on, Bro!!! :cheers: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdsknbill Posted December 9, 2002 Share Posted December 9, 2002 Originally posted by THiTo48 i don't have anything against ASF, but i have to admit i was thinking the same thing during the game yesterday... on a side note, however, i do like McCants... but, he did cost us the game yesterday, IMO... It's a little thing called Wrapping up the ball after the reception. This is a pretty basic fundamental of football. :doh: :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlanta Skins Fan Posted December 9, 2002 Share Posted December 9, 2002 Originally posted by rdsknbill It's a little thing called Wrapping up the ball after the reception. This is a pretty basic fundamental of football. :doh: :doh: OK, Mr. Genius, then why don't we see you out on the field starting for the Redskins? McCants played for Delaware State, which isn't even Division I. He didn't see the field in 2001 and has played sparingly this year. He has not gone against top talent in full-contact play under NFL officiating essentially ever in his life. What you are going to see are the mistakes from this kind of inexperience. A player will get in his face and McCants will be boneheaded and jaw right back, thinking it's showing some rare Redskins fire (something I'd like to see). Instead he get's flagged for taunting. OK, stupid mistake. But it's forgivable the first time. The play by Serwanga was simply beautifully executed. McCants *was* carrying the ball with reasonable care, and only a perfect punch from behind dislodges that ball. OK, now McCants knows he can blow a game by not putting 100% concentration on clamping that ball. People make mistakes. We don't pop out into the world as doctors, lawyers and star NFL receivers. The better ones learn from their mistakes and get better. But you can't create talent out of thin air. I think McCants has talent and a true fire for the game. I see him fight for yards and break tackles in the game (even the Giants game) that I don't see from starters like Gardner and Thompson. And I see him making mistakes. Thompson was stripped of a ball yesterday, too. He's been in the league four years. Gardner dropped countless balls last year (and yes, I got on his case for that, but only after the pattern was set). No player is going to play mistake-free football. What you want to see is talent, desire, fire and the ability to learn from mistakes. Let's let McCants make some mistakes, and let's let him play so he can show he's learning from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog Posted December 9, 2002 Share Posted December 9, 2002 Michael Irvin stunk his first 2 years in Dallas. Rich Gannon was traded before he ever stepped out on the field by the Patriots and threw an interception on his first pass in the NFL. Troy Aikman was 0-11 as a starter in 1989 and had the lowest qb ranking in the NFL that year. And yet some of you are ready to write McCants or other younger players off after a couple of bad plays? I think some of you are sitting up in the owner's box during the games, where the talk is always of winning 38-0 and cruising to a Super Bowl win in the not too distant future. Closer the ground, I think people understand there is a lot of hard work and pain to go through to get a team ready to be that successful. And when you DO get there you can look at more than one or two guys that came to your team and looked awful at the start but the coaches believed in them and wouldn't let them fail. And they were rewarded by seeing them play well under the lights Forget the idea of 2000 in buying a one year wonder team. Forget about the idea of 2002 of bringing in new coaches, a new organization in the front office and a slew of new players and winning the division and going deep in the playoffs. Fantasies like that rarely come true. That's why they are called fantasies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty dread Posted December 9, 2002 Share Posted December 9, 2002 "But that taunting call, as well as the fumble, will be what every Redksins fan remembers about McCants' 2002 season." He still has 4 games to end the season on a positive note and erase those memories, let's hope he does. Seems has if Spurrier's patience is running thin with him already. McCants has a ton of talent, he just needs to work on his mental game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlanta Skins Fan Posted December 9, 2002 Share Posted December 9, 2002 Originally posted by mattyk72 Seems has if Spurrier's patience is running thin with him already. Agreed -- and this concerns me deeply. The 2002 season is over. These are the first games of 2003, and they are "freebies" to experiment without undue peril. I like Spurrier, but he'll be making a huge mistake if he benches McCants. I'm also concerned that Betts got only one carry against the Giants. How are we ever going to know how good Betts is unless he gets a good number of carries? One thing I know I like about Betts -- he's very good at catching short passes, swiveling, and darting forward for a decent gain. It may not sound like much, but it should be a big part of Spurrier's offense. He does it much better (especially the quick swivel) than Davis and, to my eyes, somewhat better than Watson. But these are just hunches. If Davis is going to be cut, then put in Betts. And let's play McCants as much as possible, while we can afford the mistakes, to help him learn and get better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSF Posted December 9, 2002 Share Posted December 9, 2002 I agree w/ what Art and ASF are saying. I think McCants will wind up being the best receiver out of the guys we have now. The guy gets 1 ball stripped and we should run him out of town. The taunting call was BS. I was glad somebody was fired up like ASF says. Take away the fumble and McCants had a good game. He made a couple of tough catches and runs. If this guy gets the chance, he might get pretty damn good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sage Posted December 9, 2002 Share Posted December 9, 2002 I hope McCants get his head on straight as well. He's got some talent there, no doubt. Best thing for him after yesterday's game might just be to play him MORE against Philly. Throw the ball to him in important situations, too. See how he reacts. There's a lot to like about the guy (except for the fact that he grew up as a Cowboys fan, that is!) so I hope he shows us something good the last 3 weeks. Besides...I wanna see the whole "D.S.U." thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sisko Posted December 9, 2002 Share Posted December 9, 2002 2. Perhaps we would be seeing less mistakes from McCants, Bauman, Ohalete, and several other younger players if we had been smart enough to play them earlier in the season and allow them to get some experience. This is a good point, flawed though it is. See, it makes a lot of sense from hindsight. Looking forward when SOS (and us too I might add) was thinking this was a potentially playoff bound team, he played the players he thought gave us the best chance of winning games. That's what you do when you're in the thick of it. However, when you're rebuilding (the denial is over for me) as we clearly are, you play your young guys and let them get experience. As for DMac, outside of his gaffs yesterday I really like what I've seen of him so far. One play in particular I thought he really looked good on was the WR screen. He showed some halfway serious speed and moves to boot. I think if we don't get too impatient with him and expect too much too soon, he could develop into a very good (maybe not great, but few are) NFL WR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlanta Skins Fan Posted December 9, 2002 Share Posted December 9, 2002 Originally posted by Yusuf06 As for DMac, outside of his gaffs yesterday I really like what I've seen of him so far. One play in particular I thought he really looked good on was the WR screen. He showed some halfway serious speed and moves to boot. I think if we don't get too impatient with him and expect too much too soon, he could develop into a very good (maybe not great, but few are) NFL WR. If anyone's keeping score, McCants breaks a tackle on roughly half the times he catches the ball. Seriously, McCants has probably broken more tackles in his puny playing time this year (including preseason) than Gardner and Thompson have together. He did it on the screen and also on his first 11-yard catch against the Giants. The catch was for nine yards. McCants broke a tackle and made 11 for the first down. I think there was at least one additional broken tackle he made. You watch: he'll be a star for some team. I'm hoping it's ours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ignatius J. Posted December 9, 2002 Share Posted December 9, 2002 Gardner has shown a similar tackle making ability, especially on the wide reciever screens. At least, he does a great job of getting 4 yards or so after contact. McCants certainly has a higher percentage for that though. Do you think that maybe McCants is showing the same propensity for dropping catchable balls in practice as he has in the games? This would certainly explain why he's been inactive for so long. -DB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlanta Skins Fan Posted December 9, 2002 Share Posted December 9, 2002 Originally posted by DrunkenBoxer Do you think that maybe McCants is showing the same propensity for dropping catchable balls in practice as he has in the games? This would certainly explain why he's been inactive for so long. I don't agree with your generalization about dropping catchable balls, but to your point: I think Spurrier hates to play rookies. I think this explains his extreme reluctance to play Ramsey, Betts and McCants (who is essentially a rookie). I assume this dates from Spurrier's college habit of redshirting freshmen. But I think he needs to wake up to the NFL reality of shooting your guns while you have them. Free agency makes player movement more fluid than college. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ignatius J. Posted December 10, 2002 Share Posted December 10, 2002 I think the biggest reason my generalization fails is that the guy has been thrown to something like 7 times. 2 were touchdowns, 1 was a fumble. He had an incompletion in the colts game that was just bad. Mathews was rolling out to avoid pressure and threw past the sticks on a third down to a McCants who got hit in the numbers. The Dallas Lack of a catch was more excusable, and I haven't gone over the tape too much, (I only watched it 2 times) but it wasn't a hard catch per se. I beleiver that there is another catch out there somewhere, but I can't put my finger on it. I just know that he's been a dissapointment thus far. Maybe he deserves more chances, and he'll probably get them. He has broken tackles, but I have not seen the speed everyone has spoken of. At least not in conjunction with a catch. He was a fourth round pick right? So was rusell. It will be interesting to see how that battle plays out next year in camp. -DB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlanta Skins Fan Posted December 10, 2002 Share Posted December 10, 2002 Originally posted by DrunkenBoxer He was a fourth round pick right? So was rusell. It will be interesting to see how that battle plays out next year in camp. Russell was 3rd round, McCants was 5th round. McCants is far bigger and stronger. Russell is much faster, though McCants is probably the fastest WR still on the active roster. Russell could also be a nice WR for us, but he's prone to freak injuries. It's like he's made of tinkertoys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ignatius J. Posted December 10, 2002 Share Posted December 10, 2002 Hey I'm not counting on either. I really think peerless price is the way to go next year unless McCants or Thompson really step up. Another big blow to McCants was that this game really was a coming out party for thompson.... actually check that. I have a hard time beleiveing that this game showed anything about ramsey or the fun'n'gun because the giants secondary was so depleted. MAybe that's the only reason thompson looked good. So maybe McCants is worth keeping on the roster a few years ina row like thompson because he might develop into something later. I just don't know if football games are the palce. As to spurriers inclination to not playing rookies. A lot of it has to do with his beleif in his system. Rookies tend to be less present mentally, and have a hard time fitting into schemes correctly. They play best on raw athletic talent. I think that Spurrier wants to see aplayer capable of playing his role in the system before he puts them out there. -DB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlanta Skins Fan Posted December 10, 2002 Share Posted December 10, 2002 Originally posted by DrunkenBoxer I think the biggest reason my generalization fails is that the guy has been thrown to something like 7 times. 2 were touchdowns, 1 was a fumble. He had an incompletion in the colts game that was just bad. Mathews was rolling out to avoid pressure and threw past the sticks on a third down to a McCants who got hit in the numbers. That incompletion was contested by the defender, very similar to the Dallas play you're remembering, just for shorter yards. McCants has eight catches, nine if you count the Giants catch that was called back on an irrelevant penalty. So in the DB universe, players get flushed out of the program after about a dozen plays, eh? Even players who score two TDs, break tackles, and hold onto catches when slammed helmet-on-helmet? Please show me examples of players who have looked demonstrably better in their first dozen chances than McCants. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ignatius J. Posted December 10, 2002 Share Posted December 10, 2002 Some of those nine catches were on wide reciever screens, and I didn't count those. I think I've backed off my origional sentiments that McCants is a goner. So I'll concede you a victory on this point. But look at it this way, At this point McCants is a project. The correction that McCants was a fifth rounder makes that all the more clear. I haven't really beeen on McCants watch, but Maybe I should be. The seattle game recpetion in the end zone was nice. Are there any notable receptions that he has made? I remember the drops not the catches, and that's a bad thing. Do you remember any paricularly good runs after catch? This is definatley an area where he was supposed to be very good, so maybe I just missed some stuff. I'm not being sarcastic I really am curious I gues I've just seen some negative plays and few reasons to give him more chances, but I could definately be wrong. -DB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.