WP: Redskins Like Safety Landry, but Drafting Isn't That Easy

[morpheusmeyers]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/23/AR2007042301858.html

Redskins Like Safety Landry, but Drafting Isn't That Easy

Some Think Team Has More Need for Defensive Lineman

By Jason La Canfora

Washington Post Staff Writer

Tuesday, April 24, 2007; Page E03

Safety LaRon Landry may be considered the best defensive player available in the NFL draft by many in the Washington Redskins' organization, but that doesn't mean that taking him with the sixth overall pick Saturday is an automatic decision.

Landry's talent and potential are beyond debate, but executives from several other teams say they wonder how well he might mesh with starting safety Sean Taylor and whether addressing needs on the defensive line, which faltered against the run and failed to muster much of a pass rush last season, isn't more urgent. Still, sources said, there is strong internal support at Redskins Park for Landry, a Louisiana State player who had a particularly strong workout for Redskins officials last Monday in Baton Rouge.

"Landry can do a lot of things, and he may be the best kid on the board [on defense], but he's not going to improve their defensive line," said a high-ranking official from an NFC team, who requested anonymity because of the sensitivity of draft evaluations. "Taking another safety that high is a luxury I am not sure they can afford."

[morpheusmeyers]

Even the Post is getting into the act...Landry or Okoye @ 6???

[Santana_Fan]

Even the Post is getting into the act...Landry or Okoye @ 6???

I really hope it's Landry

[herb mul-key]

Landry does seem to be a beast and will be great for the team...but I hope we can meet d-line needs...

[skinsman4u]

I Posted this earlier and my point is an NFL analyst siad the exact same words darn near word for word that I said. And that is we simply don't have the luxury, for the good idea fairy, and drafting a skill position when we have glaring needs all over the place--especially up front. But our draft choice is the Redskins F/O analyses not mine.

See below posted 24 APR 070130am Eastern time:

To answer your question up front I would say not necessarily, but do we need to shore up our Defensive Line? Yes we do need to shore it up and here's why:

Which way do I believe we'll go, first off? I think we'll go with a skill position.

But if we keep our current DL a lot of things will happen and the 07 season will be painful. Because one thing that won’t happen and that is we won’t be going to the Super Bowl.

Daniels was hard pressed to lead the team in sacks in 2005 and had to come on late in the season and still only finished with 8 sacks. Not good when other teams DEs are pushing 50% higher and in some cases more; however he did play most of 2006 with a sprained wrist, sprained ankle and slipped to 3 sacks. That's little or no production.

He turned 34 in March and may not make it (be cut). Oh Phill's a Redskin and I support him, but he is not a high profile DE that a team would keep around at age 34, Dan we'll probably be bring his file to you toward end of preseason or before to give him time to fit in somewhere else. BLUFF on Daniels is that he'll probably be gone. Yes we drafted DL last year but only Golston has shown promise so far.

Griifin battled chronic hip problems the last two years and wasn't close to the force he was in 2004. Sixth-round pick Golston was a pleasant surprise as a rookie. Carter was a bust, yes we can kid our self and that’s not true all we want, but yes he was a bust for 30 million last year. He only finished strong with four sacks in the last five games. That's not a 30 million dollar production.

Wynn who'll be 33 this year can't stick as a back up at the rate he's paid but will be a note worthy reserve with a restructured contract. Salave'a is 32 and was beaten out by Golston and also could be gone, but is not exactly a dumb move to bring to camp. Hate to sound like a lawyer but that's my entry argument Is this the DL that's going to take us to the Super Bowl or are they really in our future--at all? Yes I’m a Redskin fan and will die with our team! But we’re simply not going to make it with the holes we have not only on the defensive line but all over the place.

Our MLB will be greatly occupied. But look at the benefits of having a MLB that has the freedom to go sideline- to -sideline and use a comparison analyses with the Texans #1 pick last year and what it did for a little known MLB. What it did was enable him to have 112+ solos and lead the NFL in tackles. Is the Texans MLB better than Fletcher? If the Texans MLB is better than Fletcher its not because of something Fletcher is missing. What happens when our MLB has OG and centers in his face all day? We're talking about 9 solos for Fletcher a game. That's a production worth 25 million, but he must have a supporting cast.

Hey I love big Joe but he's already proven that he's not the big body 2 gap DT that occupy blocks and clog the middle and keep our MLB free to go sideline-to-sideline. Some peolpe may argue that our production was down due to a lack of coverage. "Yeeeaah" they go hand in hand but if you have a pass rush you can get a way with average DBs. Example: You can't play the Cover2 with out a pass rush because there are holes in that scheme of pass coverage.

Speaking of the cover 2, I don't think we have the persnnel to play because of other weaknesses as well such as Fletchers ability to cover 30 yards deep middle with a speedster like Berrian out their in Chicago just to name a small measure. Nothing against Fletcher and I'm glad he's here. But it's simply unfair to ask him to do that. There's other reasons why we aren't adept for the Cover2.

But with no one big body to play the 2 gap, what happens is Flecther gets caught in the wash and loss in the spin cycle-literally trying to spin out of blocks to make tackles. Well what happens you end up with a piss poor run defense and you bring the Safety up closer to help in run support and now play action is in effect, and there's open space behind the safeties. Landry can't even cover all day. Give a QB the kind of rush that our current DL provides and the QB will pick any secondary apart. Now we're really in trouble.

We need someone who can occupy multiple blocks and can clog the interior. So that thing about building a lead and forcing teams to play catch up also goes out the window, because teams will be going strait down the field on us. We don’t have the offensive line to go hit for hit against another team’s offensive line that is known as road graters, like NO--or is Bush better than CP?

I would say hell no everyday of the week and twice on Sunday. Our OL is another reason why the upcoming 07 season doesn't spell champions for our Redskins. The OL is another story. But right now red zone efficiency is down and we also don't have the assistanst that can relay to Coach Gibbs what adjustments we need to make to find the crease. It's my opinion that's all. And no I didn't say Coach Suanders is not the answer but he probably needs another set of eyes. Hey! We just can't walk on the field with our weeks game plan and expect magic to happen, we have to have a "knack" to find the crease and make during the game adjustments based on what we see. We haven't been doing that.

CP strait took over the wildcard game in 05. We were on the verge of losing it and barely got away. That may not be dieing but it sure is not living- at least not for a championship. Right now during this draft we don't have the luxury of the good idea fairy. During this draft, or course of action (COA) must be based on a make sense analyses. And right now we're set at our skill positions on Offense. Okay, who isn't set.

So what's the problem?

So if we don't draft at #6 a DL, which I don't think we will, then we must find other was to shore up the DL. One thing about DTs and DEs is that they're hard to find and we do find a good one they're very expensive. So now Fletcher is border line as a free agent bust. I would say 8.5 solos a game and our MLB is where we would like for him to be. With our current DL I don't think he will get there. Will drafting a DL win us a champuionship? Will drafting another skill position win it? No. Hey draft who you want but just take a good look at how you're going to live with our current DL. Let everybody go on the DL but Griffin and Golston, Daniels is border line, Salavea deserves a new star and Wynn needs to restructure but don't bring to much luggage to camp. As a matter of fact Wynn just start looking at plans to go in another direction. Oh I support you but not for 4.2 million. Again this is just my opinion and I'm waiting for yours.

[Burgold]

Landry would be a big mistake. You just don't build a defense around two elite safeties. You don't tie up that large a portion of your salary cap into the safety position. Landry is not elite enough, not Superman enough to merit the risk. I said this before, Who cares if you have a great safety tandem? The 70's Steelers didn't have one, the 80's Redskins didn't have one, the 90's Cowboys didn't have one, the 00's Patriots didn't have one. It's just not necessary.

To put it more bluntly, Landry would be pastry. We need meat or we need veggies. (reference to a different thread)

[Skinsinparadise]

Funny thing is JLC has posted his opinion on this already he wants Okoye over Landry, makes me wonder about whether he cherry picked the comments about Landry to fit that point of view. The comment that seems most out of left field compared to the draft magazines, draft geeks, etc is about his game intelligence. Most of them went out of their way to comment that its his game intelligence that makes him a special player, he is a natural QB back there who directed Saban's defense, etc. Natural leader, too. The idea that he is an undisciplinted Taylor clone type safety contradicts pretty much everything else I've read about him. On one of the Landry threads I posted like 5 of the scouting reports on him.

[Dirk Diggler]

Funny thing is JLC has posted his opinion on this already he wants Okoye over Landry, makes me wonder about whether he cherry picked the comments about Landry to fit that point of view. The comment that seems most out of left field compared to the draft magazines, draft geeks, etc is about his game intelligence. Most of them went out of their way to comment that its his game intelligence that makes him a special player, he is a natural QB back there who directed Saban's defense, etc. Natural leader, too. The idea that he is an undisciplinted Taylor clone type safety contradicts pretty much everything else I've read about him. On one of the Landry threads I posted like 5 of the scouting reports on him.

Yup. I'm pretty confident that he'll position himself to slam us no matter who we take. I find it hard to believe that Landry, who started as a true freshman for a Nick Saban defense and won a national title later that year, is not a heady player. Gimme a break.

[jimster]

if Atlanta is that interested in him, it'd be nice if we could trade down with them for their#8 and one of their 2 2nd rounders.

[terpfan]

I have a feeling LAndry is the pick. I have heard nothing but support for Landry for sources inside the Redskins organization. All the (legitimate) reasons not to pick him seem to be coming from outside sources. It wouldnt break my heart, but I do weep for our defensive line. I just dont see how we think we can get away with no improving at all.

[Skinsinparadise]

Yup. I'm pretty confident that he'll position himself to slam us no matter who we take. I find it hard to believe that Landry, who started as a true freshman for a Nick Saban defense and won a national title later that year, is not a heady player. Gimme a break.

Yeah are some of the scouting reports I post below notice where: "fast learner", "smart", "good mental capacity and coaches rave about his ability to pick things up quickly"

So JLC's report in a sense is the OPPOSITE of the scouting reports.

"Total package. Can hold up in the box, in deep middle zone coverage and one on one vs, slot receiver. Fast learner and tremendous leader. They compare him to Brian Dawkins" (ESPN draft guide)

"Quick feet in man coverage, loose hipped for smooth turn with acceleration and catch up speed. Keeps good position on receiver. Good timing and leaping ability. Sudden ball reaction. Outstanding ball skills. Smart and daring with an attitude never to be beat" (Athlon Sports Draft Guide)

"Excels in all types of coverage. Can make plays along the sideline in deep coverage by breaking up passes or delivering hard hits. Consistently reads plays correctly and reacts quickly. Does not get fooled by play action fakes and misdirection plays, changes direction with burst. Gets outside quickly to make interceptions or break up passes. Gets physical with receivers when going for the ball." (Sporting News draft guide)

"Very instinctive to read run or pass and gets moving before the snap. Not beat often, but when he is, he shows excellent recovery skills." (Pro-Football Weekly Draft Book)

"He has a good mental capacity and coaches rave about his ability to pick things up quickly. He is a good leader in the secondary and does a great job of getting everyone in position. He has tremendous experience as a four-year starter at the highest collegiate level. He also has been extremely versatile in LSU's secondary throughout his career." (scout.com)

[jimster]

Someone posted here a week or so ago that if the coaches thought the defensive line was that bad, they'd have fixed it via FA. - I'm starting to wonder if that is true, thinking that injuries were the problem last year.

I can't see how it would be a bad idea to at least get some young depth that could be starters next year on the DL.

If we could swing a trade down to 8-12 and get Okoye or Carriker, that'd be pretty sweet.

[Veretax]

It doesn't matter we were banged up a lot last year, our defensive line was Historically AND statistically bad last year, and on top of that we have at least.

Let's take a look at our depth chart. I've sorted it by position, age then weight (age and weight in Descending order)

(Bold indicates people at 30 or older, italics indicate nearing age 30)

Name Pos Ht Wt Exp Age

Daniels, Phillip DE 6-3 290 11 34.00

Wynn, Renaldo DE 6-3 292 10 32.00

Shaw, Bryant DE 6-3 287 1 28.00

Evans, Demetric DE 6-3 285 5 27.00

Carter, Andre DE 6-4 265 6 27.00

Green, Jamaal DE 6-2 258 2 26.00

Sykes, Joe DE 6-2 266 1 24.00

Wilson, Chris DE 6-4 240 1 24.00

Salave'a, Joe DT 6-3 317 8 32.00

Griffin, Cornelius DT 6-3 310 7 30.00

Clauss, Jared DT 6-4 290 2 26.00

Boschetti, Ryan DT 6-4 305 3 25.00

Manupuna, Vaka DT 6-0 300 1 24.00

Montgomery, Anthony DT 6-5 305 1 23.00

Alexander, Lorenzo DT 6-1 301 1 23.00

Golston, Kedric DT 6-4 292 1 23.00

Now by this we have the following players at or over age 30

Daniels, Phillip DE 6-3 290 11 34.00

Wynn, Renaldo DE 6-3 292 10 32.00

Salave'a, Joe DT 6-3 317 8 32.00

Griffin, Cornelius DT 6-3 310 7 30.00

That's four of our starters right? Now that's not all that played last year so let's look at those that played a lot of time last year.

Carter, Andre DE 6-4 265 6 27.00

Evans, Demetric DE 6-3 285 5 27.00

Montgomery, Anthony DT 6-5 305 1 23.00

Golston, Kedric DT 6-4 292 1 23.00

The only other guy that played any snaps at all last year was

Boschetti, Ryan DT 6-4 305 3 25.00

The rest of these guys were on the practice squad or rode the bench and never smeld the field, of them. we have two rooks at DT who weighed in at 300 poiunds and a 290 poinder. Neither Golston or Evans have the size that Salave'a had at DT. And at DE, I don't know enough abot these guys to judge. (Griffin is the only one I feel may have several more years.) It is clear we need to start finding either someone to replace these guys in the future through developing them, or someone that can play a lot of snaps and extend the older guys careers.

As for our Dbacks, let's consider our depth chart again.

Name Pos Ht Wt Exp Age

Springs, Shawn CB 6-0 200 10 32.00

Macklin, David CB 5-10 206 7 28.00

Smoot, Fred CB 5-11 178 6 28.00

Jimoh, Ade CB 6-1 190 4 27.00

Rogers, Carlos CB 6-0 195 2 25.00

Torrence, Leigh CB 6-0 183 1 25.00

Eubanks, John CB 5-10 173 1 23.00

Stoutmire, Omar S 5-11 205 10 32.00

Prioleau, Pierson S 5-11 188 8 29.00

Fox, Vernon S 5-10 200 5 27.00

Pippens, Jerrell S 6-3 200 2 26.00

Taylor, Sean S 6-2 232 3 24.00

Doughty, Reed S 6-1 210 1 24.00

Cox, Chip S 5-9 190 1 23.00

Now based on that we have two 30 something dbacks, in Springs and Stoutmire, we likely will lose springs next year and be unable to retain him so I can see an argument why you might want to draft another CB for depth. We have Smoot and Rogers who are ready long term to play at CB and we can argue whether either is a #1 or #2 corner.

We also have three guys nearing that 30 mark, Smoot, Prioleau, and Macklin. So it won't be long before those guys start perhaps showing the injury history of springs but it does give us more wiggle room then we have on the Dline. Now of those guys the following guys I think we can be sure are going to be important keys to our secondary next year:

Name Pos Ht Wt Exp Age

Springs, Shawn CB 6-0 200 10 32.00

Smoot, Fred CB 5-11 178 6 28.00[/i]

Rogers, Carlos CB 6-0 195 2 25.00

Taylor, Sean S 6-2 232 3 24.00

Stoutmire, Omar S 5-11 205 10 32.00

Prioleau, Pierson S 5-11 188 8 29.00

That's not a lot of depth in the secondary with experience, but in the end its not as bad as it cuold have been I suppose We also have the following guys with some experience, but not necessarily top notch players as depth

Macklin, David CB 5-10 206 7 28.00

Jimoh, Ade CB 6-1 190 4 27.00

Torrence, Leigh CB 6-0 183 1 25.00

Eubanks, John CB 5-10 173 1 23.00

Fox, Vernon S 5-10 200 5 27.00

Pippens, Jerrell S 6-3 200 2 26.00

Doughty, Reed S 6-1 210 1 24.00

of those Jimoh Ade is primarily a special teamer, and I'm not convinced on Doughty, Fox did beat out Vincent near the end of last year so we can hope that he will be a good nickle back at some point, I know Eubanks got in the rotation at some point too but I dont' recall him having his name calle dmuch. The rest are either signed off the street or young practice squad guys.

Now looking at this I don't see the peril of age other than Springs injury issues which I think the Acquistions of Smoot and Macklin help strengthen. It is just not comparable to our depth woes at DT and DE.

Shaw, Bryant DE 6-3 287 1 28.00

Green, Jamaal DE 6-2 258 2 26.00

Sykes, Joe DE 6-2 266 1 24.00

Wilson, Chris DE 6-4 240 1 24.00

Clauss, Jared DT 6-4 290 2 26.00

Manupuna, Vaka DT 6-0 300 1 24.00

Alexander, Lorenzo DT 6-1 301 1 23.00

So, based on that we have at most two strings of players who had significant experience, and one guy that might be there as a third stringer (Boschetti), and getting that four of those starters are at 30 or older

Now considering that most teams don't let franchise or superb DTs and DEs go normally puts a higher emphasis on us trying to draft depth as opposed to signing them out of FA. Corners and Dbacks lately have been moving teams a lot more, so there is much more chance of picking up someone in the Dback field next year or following year if we really need someone.

Also with the type of wear and tear that has been happening on our Dline we really need better depth at those positions, because those set the tone for the rest of the defense. If they can't move (hobbled by leg injuries), Can't get off the line or endure through a game we will be unable to hold teams on late drives and end up on the wrong end of the scoreboard again in those close games.

Plus right now we have only 1 day 1 pick in the draft, we can hope a 5th 6th or 7th rounder will add depth somewhere, but honestly our luck with draft picks hasn't been great, therefore we must maximize our long term usability of this #6 pick at a position that most needs Quality depth. Even if we trade down, we still need Dline positions. If this team ignores it in the draft we will be run over again, and maybe have a top 4 pick next year and be scratching our heads about how bad we got run and passed on again.

[onnie007]

Landry does seem to be a beast and will be great for the team...but I hope we can meet d-line needs...

I believe we can and people can't see that cause they think we have one pick in this entire draft. I mean we still do have 4 2nd day picks.

[DCsportsfan53]

See, I keep reading conflicting reports on him. ESPN scouts have this to say about his mental capacity and leadership qualities.

He has a good mental capacity and coaches rave about his ability to pick things up quickly. He is a good leader in the secondary and does a great job of getting everyone in position.

But then you read something like this in the WP article here.

"But with your safeties you want one guy to be a stabilizer -- a steady, heady guy who can make the calls and get everyone lined up and keep everyone together. From what we've seen and what we know, that's not Landry. He's not that cerebral, he can be a little immature. I know for us, say, we wouldn't want to play two Ed Reed types or [Troy] Polamalu types together. You can't have two gamblers back there, two safeties who will get away from the scheme and do their own thing sometimes, and from what we know about Taylor, I would be a little worried those two [Landry and Taylor] playing together. I'm just not sure how well that would work."

It's hard for me to tell at this point which is true. This second view point I really haven't heard until more recently. Who knows, there certainly do seem to be conflicting reports about his intangibles, leadership and smarts, though.

[onnie007]

See, I keep reading conflicting reports on him. ESPN scouts have this to say about his mental capacity and leadership qualities.

But then you read something like this in the WP article here.

It's hard for me to tell at this point which is true. This second view point I really haven't heard until more recently. Who knows, there certainly do seem to be conflicting reports about his intangibles, leadership and smarts, though.

The second viewpoint doesn't make much sense cause the MLB usually makes the calls and more naturally suited to leading on D. Plus that second viewpoint makes ST and Landry look like idiots and incapable of learning or being coachable. I don't think they will be running wild out there and having vets like PP and Soutmire to show him how its done will help tremendously. Take the second argument with a grain of salt because there is a very very good chance that doesn't happen and Landry actually LEARNS something at the next level.

[Gilgamesh]

I would love it if we picked up the best defensive player in the draft. He's more of a sure bet than any of the defensive lineman, so this just makes sense, especially at the six spot.

[JC girl]

We will go with Landry, but we shouldn't!!! Let's get what we NEED! Man why can't the FO see that. It's a glaring, huge need.

[angel2]

Even the Post is getting into the act...Landry or Okoye @ 6???

Stay away from these two guys. Landry is not Sean Taylor but he talks like he is and then some. Okoye is too light, plus he's a project.

[Taylor Made]

IMO Landry to the skins is a big smokescreen. Atlanta, Houston or Minnesota could all potentially really use this guy. Atlanta or Houston could offer picks to move up for him.