WP - Redskins Looking Up, Down, All Around

[skinsn24]

im glad we have all these smoke screens, but having a second or third round pick to go along with the option of trading down would be ALOT nicer

[angel2]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/21/AR2007042101259.html

Redskins Looking Up, Down, All Around

By Jason La Canfora

Washington Post Staff Writer

Sunday, April 22, 2007; Page E09

With less than one week remaining before the start of the NFL draft, the Washington Redskins continue to assess varied options related to their first-round pick, the sixth overall. Team management has spent the offseason in repeated trade talks, involving both players and the pick, and will be in contact with several clubs through next weekend's draft.

This article means that the WP and other sports journalist don't have a clue.

Keep up the mystery FO. :point2sky

[onnie007]

im glad we have all these smoke screens, but having a second or third round pick to go along with the option of trading down would be ALOT nicer

I agree. I believe we consider moving up but that is not necessarily under our control and will know what our options are in this regard AFTER the Raiders are off the clock. We could stay put and take Landry or Okoye but it is very time to trade down with Miami knowing that you can still get one of these two AND get a 2nd round pick. This all depends on which of the two Atlanta covets the most. I've heard they like Okoye cause of the Louisville ties but I've also heard they like Landry so who knows. I also think we could trade down into the middle of the round and take Bowe and pick up a 2nd and 3rd round. Take Charles Johnson/Brandon Merriweather in the second and the best DL player available in the 3rd. I really want us to get Walter Thomas in the 5th or 6th rounds. I know he could be a bust but at 370 lbs he could be a force in the middle and he's not as tall as Montgomery which I think is a disadvantage to a DT. And that still leaves them with another 3 picks to use on the best defensive players available or possibly a OG. (but we just aren't good at scouting OL as 2nd day picks)

[Uno Mas]

I love how the FO keeps everyone guessing as to what they're planning... I just hope its intentional...

As for which way they go-- up or down-- they each have significant benefits, and whatever they do (go up for CJ, down for depth, stay at 6 and take Okoye), I'm confident they'll (finally) make a good decision come draft day

What do you mean by finally ?

When we keep our picks, we've done a pretty good job at getting good talent with our picks.

I think its obvious this team would be in much better shape if we had kept all the picks we've given away and trusted ourselves.

[skinsn24]

I agree. I believe we consider moving up but that is not necessarily under our control and will know what our options are in this regard AFTER the Raiders are off the clock. We could stay put and take Landry or Okoye but it is very time to trade down with Miami knowing that you can still get one of these two AND get a 2nd round pick. This all depends on which of the two Atlanta covets the most. I've heard they like Okoye cause of the Louisville ties but I've also heard they like Landry so who knows. I also think we could trade down into the middle of the round and take Bowe and pick up a 2nd and 3rd round. Take Charles Johnson/Brandon Merriweather in the second and the best DL player available in the 3rd. I really want us to get Walter Thomas in the 5th or 6th rounds. I know he could be a bust but at 370 lbs he could be a force in the middle and he's not as tall as Montgomery which I think is a disadvantage to a DT. And that still leaves them with another 3 picks to use on the best defensive players available or possibly a OG. (but we just aren't good at scouting OL as 2nd day picks)

I know you are obessed with Bowe or adding a WR, so we will differ there. But i like trading down, adding Branch or anderson (if we trade down past 9) or even okeye (if there at 9) in round 1 and then we NEED to nab Merriweather. He is exactly what the secondary needs IMO. However i think he will end up being a round 1 pick, so trading down with NE might work out if we can land branch and Merriweather....i think we could upgrade big time.

I would even be willing to trade down to say 9, drafte okeye if there, then somehow trade up to ensure we land merriweather. We would finally have some young talant throughout the defense.

The biggest problem though, is we have no other picks right now. This makes everything almost impossible on contingent on other teams and alot of luck

[lzeis24]

I'm confident the Redskins will trade back and get a second or a third. I think both picks will go towards D or maybe G. I can't wait to see what actually happens on draft day...it should be interested!

[Art]

im glad we have all these smoke screens, but having a second or third round pick to go along with the option of trading down would be ALOT nicer

Not really.

Look at the roster. There aren't a ton of obviously, easy free spots for players. Sure, a top receiver, or tackle, or end, or linebacker or safety is a lock. But, young players you have to build wouldn't be. Look at the offensive line where the team is going for experience in former starters. A young guy who you develop likely won't make the active roster there. Running back is full. Receiver is full, unless you add a TOP guy. Tight end has one spot. QB probably has a developmental players spot, but you have Campbell so you already have one developmental player.

Defensive end has Carter, Wynn, Daniels and Evans at 1-4. Salave'a, Griffin, Golston and Montgomery are inside. Someone might make this group as the fifth end or fifth tackle, but probably not one of each. Linebacker has one or two developmental spots open. The secondary doesn't really. You already have Doughtry at safety in that role and you're full up from a depth perspective at corner and safety.

Any spot you add a top prospect can find room, but, from depth, having more picks simply means we'll end up missing on more players because the active roster for the season is proably just two to three players short of what it looks like today. Now, we could do some things in June to change that, but, for now, you simply don't have obvious roster space for a lot of picks.

[RedzoneHunter]

Branch has bust written all over him

I'll second that!!

He's the next Big Daddy Wilinson

[onnie007]

I know you are obessed with Bowe or adding a WR, so we will differ there. But i like trading down, adding Branch or anderson (if we trade down past 9) or even okeye (if there at 9) in round 1 and then we NEED to nab Merriweather. He is exactly what the secondary needs IMO. However i think he will end up being a round 1 pick, so trading down with NE might work out if we can land branch and Merriweather....i think we could upgrade big time.

I would even be willing to trade down to say 9, drafte okeye if there, then somehow trade up to ensure we land merriweather. We would finally have some young talant throughout the defense.

The biggest problem though, is we have no other picks right now. This makes everything almost impossible on contingent on other teams and alot of luck

I don't think there is any doubt we'll have lots of young talent on the D after this draft. I like Merriweather and I hope we get him. For some reason I think Okoye will make the same impact as Golston. The have the same measurables and Golston is 2 inches taller. Golston plays with a high motor and I want someone to make an argument that Okoye is BETTER than Golston. And don't give me his age because he will be held to the same standard on the field as an NFL vet. Only the best should be on the field and if he can't get on the field right away then he shouldn't be drafted so high. Branch is the guy as far as 1st round DTs go. He is NFL-ready given the level of competition he played against. Would love to have BOWE along with a 2nd and 3rd round pick but who knows if they will actually take a WR in the 1st. And if we have to stay put because we have no trading partners, then I think Landry is the guy and we should just try our luck at picking up more youth on D on the 2nd day.

[onnie007]

I'll second that!!

He's the next Big Daddy Wilinson

Not really. Dan Wilkinson has had a pretty good career. In fact, Denver was trying to get his services from the Dolphins for next year. The man is going into his 11th season of fighting in the trenches as a DT!!! Branch should only hope to have that kind of longevity. And unless Okoye ends up on turf (i.e. plays for the Falcons) I can't see him having a huge 1st rounder type impact this season.

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/4512

[onnie007]

Receiver is full, unless you add a TOP guy.

I don't understand. Didn't Patten get released? I mean unless you promote Espy, doesn't that leave an open spot?

[RedzoneHunter]

Not really. Dan Wilkinson has had a pretty good career. In fact,

Not when you take into consideration that he was the #1 pick in the draft. If a team picks him in the top 10, they won't get what they're paying for. Who would want to pay top money for an average joe?

Okoye will run circles around this guy!

[skinsn24]

Not really.

Look at the roster. There aren't a ton of obviously, easy free spots for players. Sure, a top receiver, or tackle, or end, or linebacker or safety is a lock. But, young players you have to build wouldn't be. Look at the offensive line where the team is going for experience in former starters. A young guy who you develop likely won't make the active roster there. Running back is full. Receiver is full, unless you add a TOP guy. Tight end has one spot. QB probably has a developmental players spot, but you have Campbell so you already have one developmental player.

Defensive end has Carter, Wynn, Daniels and Evans at 1-4. Salave'a, Griffin, Golston and Montgomery are inside. Someone might make this group as the fifth end or fifth tackle, but probably not one of each. Linebacker has one or two developmental spots open. The secondary doesn't really. You already have Doughtry at safety in that role and you're full up from a depth perspective at corner and safety.

Any spot you add a top prospect can find room, but, from depth, having more picks simply means we'll end up missing on more players because the active roster for the season is proably just two to three players short of what it looks like today. Now, we could do some things in June to change that, but, for now, you simply don't have obvious roster space for a lot of picks.

Lol Art, do you have to disagree with me no matter what?

I dont think it is possible that having more picks would be a bad thing. I really don't.

More picks could be more depth.

More picks could be bundled so we get more high rated stars

More picks could be traded for future picks

What is the disadvantage of having more picks?

I agree 100% WR is full accept for a top player

I agree 100% RB is full.

I think that more picks in round 2-4 could easily be used or build OL line depth, i mean we could easily use 2-3 young prospects there that we can continue to groom.

The DL i do not agree with. Wynn and Daniels are oooold. Griffen is getting old, but we will most likely adress this early, so you do have a decent point here. I just see the disadvantage of adding young talant.

LB we could use plently of young players. The only young guy we have is Rocky. IF we had an exra third rounder, who knows, maybe a lance briggs type player would be there.

Again more picks means we could bundle them and move up to get certain players. We could trade them for picks next year, or we could replace aging players with large salaries with younger guys with small deals.

I just dont understand how having more picks is ever a negative. It gives you the option to do soo much more?

Any one disagree?

[Aston]

Jason covers all the guess work he's read here the last several weeks. We could go up. We could go down. We could take this guy, or that guy. If not Johnson, maybe someone else at receiver. Maybe another trade for established players. Essentially a summary of all the options available to us in one place . I did get a kick out of the line about many scouts and coaches want to trade down, say league sources, not the scouts and coaches. It would almost seem being the beat reporter, he could just say "team sources" but, maybe I'm a dreamer.

I was also a bit confused at how many things he mentioned that came from 'sources', 'an NFL personnel executive', 'team sources', 'two NFL team executives', etc. Is he not allowed to ever print the actual name of the person feeding him this information or is he just penned up in an office with a bottle of Jack and a magic 8-ball?

[skinsn24]

Is he not allowed to ever print the actual name of the person feeding him this information or is he just penned up in an office with a bottle of Jack and a magic 8-ball?

HAHAHAHAHA. That was a good laugh. Thanks.

On a serious note, i dont think many writers are allowed to cite their sources.

[onnie007]

Not when you take into consideration that he was the #1 pick in the draft. If a team picks him in the top 10, they won't get what they're paying for. Who would want to pay top money for an average joe?

Okoye will run circles around this guy!

Okay and what are expecting from Okoye if taken as the No. 6 overall pick? Immediate impact? Not likely.

[tizzod]

The one thing I have learned since Gibbs has returned reguarding the draft is to expect the unexpected. I can't even begin to fathom what we're going to do. The draft is just like blocking schemes, there some misdirection, and some on the spot improvisation. The fun part is, that most often theese days, we don't know till the actual announcment at the podium. It's like Christmas morning.

Youall can speculate till the cows come home. Me, I just sit back and wait through the off season to see who we take a chance on.

That was probably the most refreshing post I have read out here in 6 months. I agree completely.

Thanks for that. Very badly needed.

[Art]

I don't understand. Didn't Patten get released? I mean unless you promote Espy, doesn't that leave an open spot?

Moss, Lloyd, ARE and Thrash are locks. A "project" receiver is in abundance. And, with an offense that might well be more focused on the running game, you'd figure we'd keep an extra tight end than the fifth receiver. Now, if you take a top prospect you'll carry five guys. If you take a later pick, it's likely he'll not make the roster.

[Art]

Lol Art, do you have to disagree with me no matter what?

I dont think it is possible that having more picks would be a bad thing. I really don't.

More picks could be more depth.

More picks could be bundled so we get more high rated stars

More picks could be traded for future picks

What is the disadvantage of having more picks?

I agree 100% WR is full accept for a top player

I agree 100% RB is full.

I think that more picks in round 2-4 could easily be used or build OL line depth, i mean we could easily use 2-3 young prospects there that we can continue to groom.

The DL i do not agree with. Wynn and Daniels are oooold. Griffen is getting old, but we will most likely adress this early, so you do have a decent point here. I just see the disadvantage of adding young talant.

LB we could use plently of young players. The only young guy we have is Rocky. IF we had an exra third rounder, who knows, maybe a lance briggs type player would be there.

Again more picks means we could bundle them and move up to get certain players. We could trade them for picks next year, or we could replace aging players with large salaries with younger guys with small deals.

I just dont understand how having more picks is ever a negative. It gives you the option to do soo much more?

Any one disagree?

Having more picks for the sake of having picks is a bad thing in that if you are reasonably certain you don't have room for them, why bother picking them. In the situation we are in where you will not have a great number of picks who have room to make the current roster -- i.e. because many spots have depth in the way this team wants it -- then accumulating picks you will wind up cutting just seems silly.

Wynn and Daniels may be old, but, they aren't getting cut for a rookie. You can bank that. Linebacker has four guys who are locks. There is room here. Of course, no one seems to like Briggs . In our situation we'd be far better served using the limited ammo we have to take two or three players than to take the picks we have and try to take seven.

Again, though, after June, things could drastically change.

[Fred Jones]

Having more picks for the sake of having picks is a bad thing in that if you are reasonably certain you don't have room for them, why bother picking them. In the situation we are in where you will not have a great number of picks who have room to make the current roster -- i.e. because many spots have depth in the way this team wants it -- then accumulating picks you will wind up cutting just seems silly.

Wynn and Daniels may be old, but, they aren't getting cut for a rookie. You can bank that. Linebacker has four guys who are locks. There is room here. Of course, no one seems to like Briggs . In our situation we'd be far better served using the limited ammo we have to take two or three players than to take the picks we have and try to take seven.

Again, though, after June, things could drastically change.

I agree with you to a point.

It is still about evaluation of talent.

First, I am a BPA (except QB) person so picking the best player at number six is a good start to a drafting plan.

However, what if the skins evaluate a player that they consider BPA and can get that player at say number 9 while picking up an additional draft pick in say the third round. With that third round pick the skins actually do a good job scouting and pick a talented player. One that will start for years to come. Talent rises to the top and the skins would be foolish to not put that player on the roster even if it bumped an existing player.

Now, what I don't agree with is dropping into say the 20's with the intention of adding 3 or 4 picks. As you said, the team doesn't need fill players they need future starters.

[skinsn24]

Having more picks for the sake of having picks is a bad thing in that if you are reasonably certain you don't have room for them, why bother picking them. In the situation we are in where you will not have a great number of picks who have room to make the current roster -- i.e. because many spots have depth in the way this team wants it -- then accumulating picks you will wind up cutting just seems silly.

Wynn and Daniels may be old, but, they aren't getting cut for a rookie. You can bank that. Linebacker has four guys who are locks. There is room here. Of course, no one seems to like Briggs . In our situation we'd be far better served using the limited ammo we have to take two or three players than to take the picks we have and try to take seven.

Again, though, after June, things could drastically change.

Wynn is a very possible June 1 cut, the draft is before june 1, so having a pick would let us address his position and draft instead.

Again, if we have all these picks and not alot of room, they can always be used to trade up or trade for picks in the future. Look at the patriots, they draft alot every year, maybe some players dont make the squad, but they also move up in drafts alot with their extra picks.

I just dont see a downside, when you have so many options of what you want to do with them, bundle, trade for next year, cut old players ect ect

Edit: I bet after the draft the redskins bring in 10-20 undrafted free agents to evaluate. Had we had more picks in round 2-4, it would just be less undrafted players, and those guys in rounds 2-4 are more likely to be a real talant and make the squad, whether it be as a special teamer or position player.

Edit: please dont ban me, i had not gotten to other threads yet. sorrrry

[reglw22]

For my first post I would like to throw out a highly unlikely idea that can get the team more picks. If we are able to trade our 6th pick to the Dolphins for their 9th and a 2nd rounder, we can then trade the 9th to New England for their 24th and 28th. This way we get 2 firsts and a second for the #6 and the possibilities are insurmountable.

[Peregrine]

I agree. I want no part of Branch.

[onnie007]

I agree. I want no part of Branch.

I think you should read "The Case for Alan Branch" thread. He's actually the only NFL-ready immediate impact type DT in the first round.

[Stormy]

Having more picks for the sake of having picks is a bad thing in that if you are reasonably certain you don't have room for them, why bother picking them. In the situation we are in where you will not have a great number of picks who have room to make the current roster -- i.e. because many spots have depth in the way this team wants it -- then accumulating picks you will wind up cutting just seems silly.

I may have missed the context of Skinsn24's original comment. However, assuming that I did not, are you contending that the dearth of draft picks we created for ourselves is actually a blessing, given our lack of roster space? Or, are you rather saying that, since it's already a given that we have limited picks in this draft, it's best to maximize the impact of the individual picks rather than trying to move back, and acquire more picks which likely won't stick because of our roster situation?

Certainly, granted the advanced average age, and lack of depth, among many of our current units (OL, DL, LB corps), some of which haven't been replenished via the draft in years... we sure could use the 2nd and 3rd rounders we senselessly gave away in this draft. Can't even imagine the type of quality we could have added, or the type of leverage we could have created for ourselves in terms of trade, if we actually had the #37 and #70 picks, in addition to our #6 in a draft with such a strong projected 2nd and 3rd round. At the least, without manuevering at all, we could have likely gotten: 1 the best DL (or best defensive talent) in the draft at #6, an elite safety partner for Taylor, and possibly even an upgrade replacement for Dockery at LG.

But, no, we just had to impulsively move up in desperation to grab Rocky (who most thought was falling to us anyway), and we had to grab Duckett as well... so the horrid holes at Safety and Left Guard will just have to wait. That's 3 probable starters at areas of need we could likely have landed, and that's presuming we didn't trade off of #6 to acquire an extra pick etc... Hopefully, there's a lesson in this vacant allotment of draft picks for the Redskins impetuous F.O.