CJ vs. Adams/Anderson = Reggie Bush vs. Mario

[gorebd82]

Last year, I thought the Texans did the wise thing by trying to build their defense with a cornerstone DE. I'm a big fan of defense. As good as Bush was, I felt HOU already had a RB (prior to learning about Dominick's injury) and some other offensive talent, but the defense needed a dominant force to put pressure on Peyton and Leftwich.

A year later and people are still laughing at me for saying that. I don't think that anyone would argue that the Texans blew it by not going for Bush. Now I think the Skins are in a similar situation. I know it's slightly different because we have to make the decision to move up or stand pat, but essentially, the choice is how important is CJ versus a DL.

No DL is as talented a prospect as Mario was last year. CJ is as talented as Bush and really has less question marks. People questioned how strong Bush was and his durability. CJ is nearly as fast as Bush (Combine time) and way bigger.

For anyone that says we are set at receiver cannot truly argue that we have a better situation than the Texans did at that time. Dominick was Rookie of the Year, had posted consecutive 1000 yard seasons, was their most consistent offensive threat, and had just signed a contract extension. On the other side of the coin, the Saints were set at RB as well and we see how Bush's presence opened up their offense. The logical pick for their situation would have been AJ Hawk (who was also considered a better defensive prospect than any of this year's DL) The Saints going into last season looked a lot less talented than the Skins and they ended up going to the NFC Championship Game with a less talented defense than what we currently have.

To sum it up, when you have a chance at a playmaker like Bush or CJ, you can't pass it up for a good defender. I don't want the Skins to look back at the end of the year and talk about how the FO blew a chance to get CJ like Houston blew their chance. If Bush could take the Saints from the second worst record in football to the NFC Championship Game, CJ has the potential to take an underperforming, but talented Skins team to the Bowl.

[Hokieskins1]

i like the way you look at that, have not thought about it that way

[bowhunter]

Very interesting thoughts, I'm slowly changing from a "d-line or nothing" camp to a CJ advocate. We're in a good spot if we don't have to mortgage a lot to move up to get him.

[Skin Patrol]

The difference is we don't have a choice of CJ or Anderson/Adams; the Redskins aren't picking at #1. As the Houston Texas didn't even choose Bush given the choice, I doubt they would have traded draft picks to move up into a position to do so.

The 31st ranked defense in the league with the 32nd ranked pass rush (which isn't affected significantly -- if at all -- by FA acquisitions of Fletcher and Smoot) isn't going to improve until the 2nd Day of the Draft if we select CJ. I understand the draw of him as a player, as he is a truly special talent, but unless you plan on lining him up at Defensive End I just don't see how he pushes us towards a perennial champion. We could be the #1 offense in the league next year and still lose 9 games with our pass rush (or lack thereof).

[wilbur58z]

If you want CJ, then say goodbye to our 2008 draft.

[Koolblue13]

The Raiders passed on a top QB last year to pick up Huff. They had a top D and when they do get a new QB, he will get to be on the field a whole lot more and not have to play so much catch up. I like the idea for a team rebuilding it's defense first and offense second.

We are not in a rebuilding year like the texans always are. We need a couple of spots improved and a little youth for depth. I'm sure next year there will be a top prospect that nobody has ever seen skills like they will have and I would like to have a first round pick to have a chance at him. If we get CJ, we will be in the same spot next year.

[CommDownMan]

Very interesting thoughts, I'm slowly changing from a "d-line or nothing" camp to a CJ advocate. We're in a good spot if we don't have to mortgage a lot to move up to get him.

I agree to a point, but I am in the CJ or DL at #6. I don't want to trade up to get him. If he isn't there, then so be it.

[BLEED-B&G]

this is apples and oranges, if, by the grace, we are sitting at 6 and have to pick between them then I would definately say go CJ...

However in reality, to get CJ we are going to have to do something ridiculous like give up next years 1st rounder and I am totally against that....

I would like to bite the bullet, stay where we are, and go into next year with a clean slate

And Bush was by no means the reason the saints made it to the NFC championship; he didn't really start making an impact until midseason. To give credit to anyone but Brees for putting the saints top is an injustice.

[fdarugar]

this is apples and oranges, if, by the grace, we are sitting at 6 and have to pick between them then I would definately say go CJ...

However in reality, to get CJ we are going to have to do something ridiculous like give up next years 1st rounder and I am totally against that....

I would like to bite the bullet, stay where we are, and go into next year with a clean slate

And Bush was by no means the reason the saints made it to the NFC championship; he didn't really start making an impact until midseason. To give credit to anyone but Brees for putting the saints top is an injustice.

I agree with you 100%, completely different situations and players.

[ThePreciating]

The difference is we don't have a choice of CJ or Anderson/Adams; the Redskins aren't picking at #1. As the Houston Texas didn't even choose Bush given the choice, I doubt they would have traded draft picks to move up into a position to do so.

The 31st ranked defense in the league with the 32nd ranked pass rush (which isn't affected significantly -- if at all -- by FA acquisitions of Fletcher and Smoot) isn't going to improve until the 2nd Day of the Draft if we select CJ. I understand the draw of him as a player, as he is a truly special talent, but unless you plan on lining him up at Defensive End I just don't see how he pushes us towards a perennial champion. We could be the #1 offense in the league next year and still lose 9 games with our pass rush (or lack thereof).

A year before, we were a Top Ten defense. Last year was more an aberration than anything, coupled with poor free agency choices. I expect this defense to be at least better than average against the run and top 10 against the pass.

Trading up for CJ is smart - trade lots of uncertainty (future picks) for almost no uncertainty (animal).

[Aston]

I don't think that anyone would argue that the Texans blew it by not going for Bush.

It's too early to say. I'll concede that after 1 season, Bush made more of an impact, but we really won't know which player is more valuable to their respective teams until another year or two.

For anyone that says we are set at receiver cannot truly argue that we have a better situation than the Texans did at that time.

The main hole is your arguement, and every other CJ argument on the other 32458 threads about this, is that we don't have any more picks till round 5. Why? We blew through em to get high-priced free agents to compensate for our lack of depth at various positions. And now you want to trade up, spending our picks from NEXT year and possibly the following, putting us more in the hole, jeopardizing our ability to resign Cooley and Taylor, to get an offensive player to improve a record-setting terrible defense.

If Bush could take the Saints from the second worst record in football to the NFC Championship Game, CJ has the potential to take an underperforming, but talented Skins team to the Bowl.

This statement however, is where I officially began questioning your football knowledge. The Saints got to the championship game because of DREW BREES, not Reggie Bush. If you don't believe me, ask any Saints fan on planet earth.

[cphil006]

That might be right on considering Mario WIlliams was more heavily toutted than Jamaal Anderson....

I really think LaRon Landry or Reggie Nelson will have the biggst DB impact and we could use another awesome free safety.

The thing is, we could trade down and still get Landry and a second round pick for possibly a guard.

Jarvis Moss at DE also looks great.

[Bossman_SKins]

:applause:

this is apples and oranges, if, by the grace, we are sitting at 6 and have to pick between them then I would definately say go CJ...

However in reality, to get CJ we are going to have to do something ridiculous like give up next years 1st rounder and I am totally against that....

I would like to bite the bullet, stay where we are, and go into next year with a clean slate

And Bush was by no means the reason the saints made it to the NFC championship; he didn't really start making an impact until midseason. To give credit to anyone but Brees for putting the saints top is an injustice.

:applause: :applause:

[Skin Patrol]

A year before, we were a Top Ten defense. Last year was more an aberration than anything, coupled with poor free agency choices. I expect this defense to be at least better than average against the run and top 10 against the pass.

Trading up for CJ is smart - trade lots of uncertainty (future picks) for almost no uncertainty (animal).

I like your optimism, though clearly we have a different view of the Defense. While some of our failure was anomalous -- our lack of turnovers can partially be attributed to bad luck -- our pass rush has been bad for the past two years. Our Defensive Line is oooooooold, Cornelius Griffin and Phillip Daniels (and Big Joe) all have their best years behind them. We should expect them all to be worse players in '07 than they were in '06. That's the reality of aging.

We've made some fairly clear cut improvements in our secondary. It's uncontroversial to say that Fred Smoot is a better CB alternative than either Kenny Wright or Mike Rumph. Shawn Springs will be injured in '07, but smart money has him playing at least as many games as he did in '06.

Against the run we should be better with Fletcher in the middle, though McIntosh I think could still reasonably be viewed as a question mark. Even if he is, we can put Lemar Marshall on the weakside and should perform better than last year.

Still, given all that, I think you're too optimistic. The 31st defense (32nd in opposing QB rating) has some serious issues. If we had fallen to 16th I would call that anomalous. Falling to the 2nd worst team in the league suggests deep problems. And if we're willing to grant that anomalies can sink us that far, than there isn't any reason to be confident in the Redskins defense anyways.

You don't deal with the pass rush immediately and it doesn't matter how good our secondary is. Even with Springs as a starter last year we still got torched against Indy, Philly, and St. Louis. You have to be able to apply pressure on opposing QB in the NFL, and Calvin Johnson simply can't do that.

[Mr. S]

I highly doubt Johnson will be available, so this is not a fair comparison. Based on player who may be available for us, I advocate trading down. If Quinn/Russell last, then hopefully Miami or Minnesota will fight for our pick. Houston was the most likely, but they are out now, major disappointment. If Detroit does take Gaines Adams now, then it is likely one of the QB's will be left for us, or Joe Thomas, who some teams could still trade up for (especially Houston).

I still want to trade down and get a 2nd rounder out of it. Hopefully we can still draft Landry then, or one of the top D-line.

[Hokieskins1]

i would give up the #6 and next years 1st to get CJ, because i, off the top of my head cant think of any one who would have the type of talent that he brings to the game, offense or defense. and hopefully we would have a fairly low pick in the first next year.

[pjfootballer]

I thought Mario had a decent year considering all the pressure on him. He'll get better and better with experience. Anyone who thought he'd come out of the blocks and get 15-20 sacks was a fool. 5-10 would be a good rookie year and I think he was in that range.

[The Full Monty]

The analogy fails when one takes into account that Bush fell to the Saints and we will most certainly have to trade up to get Calvin Johnson.

If only we had more picks...

[pjfootballer]

However in reality, to get CJ we are going to have to do something ridiculous like give up next years 1st rounder and I am totally against that....

I put this in the other thread. It may not be as bad as you think to give up next year's #1.

"Actually, some of us in here are saying we give away too many draft picks, but under Gibbs I, we didn't use the number 1 pick either and built 3 SB teams. The only years we had a #1 pick under Gibbs was 1981 (Grimm), 1983 (Green), 1991 (Bobby Wilson) and 1992 (Howard). So, it can be done again. As another person in here mentioned, that George Allen hated rookies. He didn't trust them. He not only gave away the 1st round picks, but usually through the first 3 to 4 rounds. In 1972, we didn't make our first pick until round 8, and in 1974 and 1978, round 6."

[tizzod]

i would give up the #6 and next years 1st to get CJ, because i, off the top of my head cant think of any one who would have the type of talent that he brings to the game, offense or defense. and hopefully we would have a fairly low pick in the first next year.

The only problem with that is, that's not enough.

[Siven]

I thought Mario had a decent year considering all the pressure on him. He'll get better and better with experience. Anyone who thought he'd come out of the blocks and get 15-20 sacks was a fool. 5-10 would be a good rookie year and I think he was in that range.

Yeah, DE takes time. Reggie bush, in my mind, sucked it up, he wasn't that good. If I had to pick between Bush or Jones-Drew, I'd go with Jones-Drew. We need pass rush like Michael Irvin needed cocaine.

[Aston]

and hopefully we would have a fairly low pick in the first next year.

If we don't make strides to add depth to the d-line, we'll probably have top 5 pick next year.

[SkinsWizCubsDukes]

The difference is we don't have a choice of CJ or Anderson/Adams; the Redskins aren't picking at #1. As the Houston Texas didn't even choose Bush given the choice, I doubt they would have traded draft picks to move up into a position to do so.

I agree, I like the OP, but comparing it to the Mario vs. Reggie hype is apples in oranges. Yeah, its fruit, but we don't have our choice to pick the apple or the orange...can you dig it?

The Texans had their choice, could have easily traded down, and still landed their pick. Lets remember, it was the Redskins who traded their pick (Ricky Williams) and completely screwed the Saints. I feel like no one would give up that much for one guy again, but we all know that they could have swapped picks with the Saints and gotten a second rounder, and still landed Williams.

[Boy2Der]

I'm not goin to lie its a good post it we were in the situation the Texans were at were they basically had there choice they didn't have 2 worry about somebody else picking him up. Its almost guranteed though that Adams will be at 6 nd that CJ will be not be there so we have no choice but if the skins move up its for CJ nd i think the will if the Raiders and Detroit pass him up then they make a play for #3 but I def want CJ but its all speculation right now draft day is so weird nething can him he may well fall right into r laps.

[MDRedskinsFan]

And Bush was by no means the reason the saints made it to the NFC championship; he didn't really start making an impact until midseason. To give credit to anyone but Brees for putting the saints top is an injustice.

If this is true, then why are so many teams transforming into a 2 running back offense? Maybe Brees was a better quarterback and led his team to the NFC Championship game because of Reggie Bush's presence making their offense unpredictable. Also, their defense was not the best, but was good enough to get them as far as they did because their offense was so effective, and gave the defense more rest.

The Colts won the Super Bowl this year, and their run defense entering the playoffs was almost as bad as ours. Sometimes, your defense gets better because of a better offense alone. Flame away, but I think getting CJ, no matter how, will make the offense good enough to take pressure off the defense and make them more effective in the process.