BleedBNG Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 Just consider the source of all this crap and move on...next week this jerk will have an article out saying this team screwed up letting John Hall go. How DARE the Skins mishandle one of MY favorite players :mad: He's better than Suisham. He just needs to get back on the field. He's been out too long. Unfair! A few bad kicks.... sheeeeesh and no chance now of proving himself with the team.... how RIDICULOUS! :doh: Sorry, but I'm just so mad now the way this organization has treated it's former players. :mad: :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ring his Clock Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 I can’t believe this thread! Some desk jockey makes a disparaging remark about Gibb’s, and suddenly it’s old news QB controversy in DC again. From what I remember, Ramsey had problems with touch laying the ball in downfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntotoro Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 You said it's Ramsey's own fault for being stuck in the back of the depth chart. Trent Green was also stuck in the back of the depth chart. Is that Green's fault? Until Green did something about it. He went to another team and won the starting job, but hurt his knee. Then he went to another team and won the starting job. Patrick left, but couldn't even crack the top three on the Jets and will be a #2 at best in Denver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
project myu Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 Until Green did something about it. He went to another team and won the starting job, but hurt his knee. Then he went to another team and won the starting job. Patrick left, but couldn't even crack the top three on the Jets and will be a #2 at best in Denver. Umm, he didn't go to another team and win a starting job. He went to another team that was GIVING him the starting job. Furthermore, even when Kurt Warner took the starting job away from him, Vermeil still backed Green and brought him to the Chiefs where he GAVE him the starting job. Ramsey did not have those kind of opportunities in Washington. Meanwhile, Dolphins were willing to have him as their starter. THAT would've been Ramsey's chance to sink or swim. Instead, we took that opportunity away from him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntotoro Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 Regardless whatever the circumstances with Green, Ramsey had every chance in the world with the Jets. QB coming off two surgeries and a rookie along with a completely new Offense for all three. He did nothing with that opportunity. You can say "woulda', coulda', shoulda'" about the Dolphins all-day (I'm just upset we missed on a draft pick), but Patrick already showed with another team he couldn't get it done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
project myu Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 Regardless whatever the circumstances with Green, Ramsey had every chance in the world with the Jets. QB coming off two surgeries and a rookie along with a completely new Offense for all three. He did nothing with that opportunity. You can say "woulda', coulda', shoulda'" about the Dolphins all-day (I'm just upset we missed on a draft pick), but Patrick already showed with another team he couldn't get it done. Why didn't Trent Green show up Gus Frerotte and Heath Shuler and Kurt Warner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyvern Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 What a thread!! Obviously starting QB controversies never die. I imagine that's why Pasquarelli exploits this for his ratings. He's banking on the fact that the Snyder's/Redskins FO is unpopular, that everyone has an opinion on starting QBs, and especially on the fact that many Redskin fans are ready to defend Gibbs honor at the drop of a hat. Considering all the posts, it looks like he was right. So here is my MEGA-Post on the the topic. :soapbox: I find myself lining up with much of what Jimster and ProjectMYU said. However, it's not all black-or-white. Almost everybody had good points, because its not as simple as Pasquarelli tries to paint it. I suspect tha Gibbs and company, upon reflection, probably wish they'd handled Ramsey differently. I also think that Ramsey has enough internal resiliance not to have had his 'confidence shattered' by the way things turned out for him in Washington. Lastly, its a little early to claim Ramsey's career over -- remember Rich Gannon? So, on many counts Pasquarelli is wrong. For example, my sense Ramsey did recognize at the outset that Brunell was Gibb's hand-picked veteran to lead the team. His only hope was to win the starting job against the coach's favorite -- who, after all, was coming off of injuries. So when Brunell tanked in 2004, that part of the season became Ramsey's opportunity to shine. The problem for Ramsey was that Washington had major O-line problems and couldn't give Ramsey the time he needed. With a new system, holdover personnel from Spurrier, and inconsistent protection Washington never really looked good in 2004. Consequently most of Ramsey's tutelage came from blitzing defenders. Frankly, Ramsey's "pocket-presence" could best be described as his team-mates' admiration for his standing in the pocket and taking the inevitable hit just to be able to make the pass, ...and then then getting up for some more of the same. The one thing Ramsey had in 2004 was courage, and a livelier arm than Brunell (heck Gibbs had a livelier arm than Brunell-2004.) But Ramsey didn't get much time to read coverages either, unless Washington went max-protection. (In that case, no one was ever open to throw to.) In the beginning of 2005, Brunell's the health of his arm, elbow, and legs was back. Although he was listed 'officially' behind Ramsey -- Brunell now had many of his his former Pro-Bowl traits back working for him. Already a respected vet, more mobile, and well-coached by longtime associate QB-Coach Bill Musgrave -- Brunell soon developed an even better grasp of the offensive scheme as well. Now that Brunell had a passable long-throw as well, he definitely pressed Ramsey for starter. During the 2005 pre-season, I too thought Brunell ran the team more crisply and had all the throws -- albeit against scrubs. Ramsey was okay -- good arm, a bullet medium pass, etc. but he had no mobility and wasn't as forceful in 'running' the team. Also, the earlier years had imparted in him the bad habit of not taking enough time to read the coverages before throwing the ball. Gibbs hates turnovers. So, Gibbs let Ramsey that the opener, but the hook was poised, and it came at the first opportunity. Maybe when Brunell started to run down in the later parts of 2005 -- that might have been another time to try out Ramsey. But as you know, Gibbs is generally slow to yank Brunell. Ramsey lost an opportunity to showcase his talents, but I'm not sure even I would have tinkered with the Redskins chemistry when they were on a roll into the playoffs. I think the regretable part of Ramsey's Redskin career came in 2006. Ramsey was a decent backup and the Campbell (Gibb's 2005 hand-picked QB of the future) was talented but still quite green. But Brunell would really have to implode or actually unable to perform for Washington to keep Ramsey around long enough to have a shot. My sense is that Brunell never looked that good from the outset of 2006. In the new Saunders scheme (and without Musgrave's coaching) Brunell's style of rolling out and looking around, just didn't mesh. Moreover, Brunell's arm wasn't as live and his accuracy defintely wasn't as good. Perhaps Ramsey --behind the improved O-line-- might have made those kind of quick-decision, bullet-tosses that the Saunders scheme rely on. But we'll never know, because we decided we needed a 6th round pick more than Ramsey. Hey, Washington gave up a mature, healthy, durable QB, a former 1st rounder, a former starter, someone with almost 5 years of experience and who was entering his prime physical years --- for a 6th rounder. It still seems like a bad deal. It certainly didn't help Ramsey's reputation around the league, and that doesn't seem right considering how professionally Ramsey conducted himself as a Redskin. Maybe that was the only chance Gibbs could give Ramsey. Also, I don't think that Ramsey flopped with the Jets. To the Jets, he was more like QB insurance. As someone already noted, Ramsey's situation in New York was very similar to Washington. Pennington was the favorite, the incumbent who may or may not have had healed suffiently. Also Mangini had a newly drafted QB to groom for the future. So, it wasn't about Ramsey losing out in the competition, it was about whether Pennington (a really decent QB) still was able to play. As you know, Chad was healthy enough, and so Ramsey now moves on. I wish Patrick good luck; he's a classy pro -- and hopefully he can click within Denver's system, or some other teams. (I think he'd be great with the Bears.) If he can play with a more confident tempo, and master those soft shorter passes, and take more time to to read coverages - he's got the other intangibles -- the arm and body-- to start in the NFL. As for Gibbs, he has a system to establish and needs to weave in the right personnel. Doing so, involves making tough decisions and being decisive when he has to pull the trigger. I'm sure Joe would agree that one of those hard choices involved Patrick Ramsey. But it's a business, and all the parties involved understand that. Except Pasquarelli, who seems to be in another business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntotoro Posted March 11, 2007 Share Posted March 11, 2007 Why didn't Trent Green show up Gus Frerotte and Heath Shuler and Kurt Warner? In case you forgot, Green did start here in '98. He chose to sign elsewhere after that season. Ramsey was cut by the Jets. Couldn't make it. Green was the starter at St Louis before his injury, not Warner. Warner played well enough that he stayed in and Green ultimately went to KC. He wanted to go to St Louis and they did offer him more money than the 'Skins. There are some certainties in life: death, taxes and Patrick Ramsey will probably be a career journeyman backup. It's not a bad life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Posted March 11, 2007 Share Posted March 11, 2007 Spurrier and Gibbs both ruined Ramsey. A shame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ_Skins Posted March 11, 2007 Share Posted March 11, 2007 The thing that proves the mismanagement of the situation is not the argument about whether Ramsey is any good, which is not provable one way or the other at this point, but the fact that: 1) The Dolphins offered us a first round pick for him which Gibbs rejected. 2) Ben Roethlisberger was available when we drafted Sean Taylor that same year. 3) Gibbs declined both of those opportunities, kept Ramsey, only played him grudgingly at the end of 2004, named him the starter, yanked him in the first half of week one in 2005, and then traded him away for a 6th round pick. Case closed. Either Gibbs totally mis-evaluated Ramsey in 2004, or he completely wrecked the way he handled him thereafter. No matter how you slice it, it was botched. Gibbs took a highly-regarded first round pick and totally destroyed his value on the market, without even playing him. That is truly a unique achievement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotalRecall Posted March 11, 2007 Share Posted March 11, 2007 Denver downgraded their backup QB by picking Ramsey over Plummer. Maybe it was a salary issue. It's also kinda interesting that backup RBs are valued more than backup QBs. Ramsey gets a 2-year $5M contract, while RBs get $3M+ per year (except for Betts). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotalRecall Posted March 11, 2007 Share Posted March 11, 2007 Why didn't Trent Green show up Gus Frerotte and Heath Shuler and Kurt Warner? He did. When he got the opportunity, Trent Green took over Gus Frerotte in 1998. Shuler was already gone by then. In 1999, Trent Green was slated to be the starter by the St. Louis Rams (weird, I still think of them as the LA Rams), but got a season-ending knee injury in a preseason game. Kurt Warner took them to the Super Bowl and well that made Trent Green expendable. Trent Green's career started out slow by being drafted in the 8th round. There's no pressure on the coach to play an 8th-round draft pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyDave Posted March 11, 2007 Share Posted March 11, 2007 I was hoping this would be the season where we could extend the olive branch to Lenny the Fat but knowing his appetite, hatred of the skins and love of olives on megapizzas.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiefPowhatan17 Posted March 11, 2007 Share Posted March 11, 2007 The only way that Ramsey was mishandled by Gibbs, was the fact that he was not traded sooner for more than a 7th rounder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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