Was the elbow to Tyler Hansbrough's nose tonight intentional? (Duke vs. UNC)

[halter91]

:laugh: Exactly, this injury will not hurt Hansbrough's game, he never breathes through his nose anyway.

As for the foul, I have no doubt that Henderson was trying to either block Hansbrough or give him a hard foul but he had no intent to really hurt him. Remember, Duke only had one starter in (Sheyer) and all the others were bench players (including Henderson and #51 who has only played in two games this year for only two minutes each game). Despite this, UNC had most of its starters in and on the previous possession tried to dunk on Duke with a 12 point lead and less than :30 to go. Fortunately, Nelson blocked the blatantly disrespectful dunk attempt (and was then substituted on the next stoppage). UNC was trying to run up the score and dunk whenever they could in a game that was over. That is why Henderson went in so hard, he didn't want to get disrespected and dunked on. I don't think he was trying to hurt him at all but he must gave been extremely frustrated with the way that UNC was acting with such little class. You cannot excuse the foul and I hope Hansbrough is OK but it is not surprising that someone can lose their calm when the other team and their coach are being punks.

^^ Definitely a Dookie fan. The only reason Dook other starters weren't in because they fouled out. I don't think it was Henderson was intentionally trying to hurt him, but it was an intentional hard foul. And the fact the Coach K defended him is ridiculous. Then again he defended when Laettner stomped on that guys chest a few years ago. To Hell with the Dookies!

[TradeTheBeal!]

mboyd giving a shout out to the man!

The Great John Chaney! Send in the goons!

I will Kill You!

[EersSkins05]

I have no allegiance to either team. That being said, it was blatantly a cheap shot. Anyone who says otherwise is a Duke ballwasher.

Quoted for truth.

Here's the CBS coverage (longer) when it actually happened:

And here's something that no one has pointed out here: there really isn't a difference between an intentional hard foul and what happened here. By order:

1) There was an intent to foul outside of the rules of the game

2) There was an intent to foul HARD outside of the rules of the game

3) There was a hard foul outside of the rules of the game

4) The injury that resulted was a consequence of 1-3

If we're in a court of law and you're on trial for assault and battery, do you really think the prosecutor/judge/jury is going to give you leniency because you acted with reckless disregard for someone else's safety?

[grego]

listening to packer comments- and nances silence- i'm wondering what the heck packer is watching. 'his head is turned', 'clearly not a dirty hit'?? except for the fact that he's looking right at TH as he swings at him...that and the ball was long out of his hands. i know its a bang bang play, but with the ball still nowhere near where he's swinging and henderson looking right at him with, clearly, no attempt to even slow down his forearm, the guy deserves what he got, at the very least.

bottom line- if you attempt a hard foul (esp under those circumstances- no chance to win, vs your hated rivals who you've already lost to) and you injure someone, you're done.

i still think nance wanted to say 'what the hell are you watching?'.

[btfoom]

From the first replay (behind the basket), the shot to the face looked ridiculously intentional. After seeing from the camera in front of the basket, the foul looked intentional, but not the shot to the nose (little consolation to Tyler).

I read earlier that someone called for the suspension to extend for the whole ACC tournament. From where I sit, it already is.

ps -

Date Team Location Result

02/03/07 at Wake Forest Winston-Salem, N.C. Terps Win, 79-72

02/11/07 vs. Duke College Park, Md. Terps Win, 72-60

02/14/07 at NC State Raleigh, N.C. Terps Win, 85-70

02/25/07 vs. North Carolina College Park, Md. Terps Win, 89-87

02/28/07 at Duke Durham, N.C. Terps Win, 85-77

03/03/07 vs. NC State College Park, Md. Terps Win, 79-59

University of Maryland Terps

North Carolina State Champions 2006/2007

Undefeated (6-0)

[yank]

OK, for all you knee-jerk Duke haters Danny Green and Reyshawn Terry of UNC don't think it was intentional.

Check this out and get a life:

http://www.starnewsonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?Category=weblog03

CHAPEL HILL - Roy Williams was clearly annoyed at what happened to his best player with 14.5 seconds left in North Carolina’s 86-72 victory over Duke on Sunday at the Smith Center.

Mike Krzyzewski didn’t believe Gerald Henderson’s hard foul on Tyler Hansbrough didn’t justify his ejection and grew tired of answering questions about it in his post game press conference. In fact, Krzyzewski made a point of defending his freshman forward.

“We’ll take all responsibility, but if there’s anyway Gerald Henderson did that intentionally, it’s crazy,” Krzyzewski said.

“He’s moving away from him. He’s going up to block, he’s not even seeing how he hit him. He should be fouled, but not the way he plays and that’s not the way we play.”

Hansbrough wasn’t available for comment after the game, but some of his teammates gladly spoke up, although none appeared to have any angst toward Henderson and the Blue Devils.

UNC freshman Brandan Wright: “I didn’t see it. He came over, had blood in his nose. But it’s just one of those things that sometimes happens in a game.”

Carolina senior Reyshawn Terry didn’t believe Henderson’s hit was deliberate, neither did sophomore Danny Green. Both chalked it up to the “heat of the battle taking over.”

Ty Lawson, the Tar Heels’ freshman point guard, actually chuckled when asked about how Hansbrough looked.

“It was terrible,” Lawson said. “Blood was all over the place. His nose looked better (in the locker room), but it was real swollen.”

Lawson was relieved learning that Hansbrough’s nose was not broken and will play on Friday in the quarterfinals of the ACC Tournament.

“He can come back and play,” Lawson loudly said. “I’m grateful he’s healthy.”

As he should, Krzyzewski made a clear point of speaking up for Henderson’s character.

“I know he didn’t do it on purpose, he just doesn’t do that,” the coach said. “And seeing it (the tape) I’m more convinced. … The kid didn’t intend to do it is what I’m saying. I firmly believe that.

“Whenever you’re in those situations, it may be the right judgment. He’s (Henderson) a great kid, you don’t want to make a rash judgment. And it may be the right one, and we’ll go with it.”

To the surprise of some in the media, Henderson answered questions in the locker room following the game.

“Tyler got the rebound,” he said in an interview with Raleigh sports talk radio station 850 The Buzz that was obtained by the Star-News. “He pump-faked and got all our guys in the air. I was looking to block his shot or foul, and unfortunately I came down on him. It was worse than what I intended.

“Obviously you want to be playing helping your team. But, it happened. We have to take it for what it’s worth. There’s no excuses, we have to come out and be together when we start the tournament.”

Interestingly, Krzyzewski questioned why regular players like Henderson and Hansbrough were even on the floor with less than 20 seconds remaining in a 12-point game.

“The game was over before that,” he said. “That’s unfortunate to that those people were in the game in that way. But that’s what happens. It’s unfortunate. I hate when those things against us, whatever, you just don’t want those things to happen.

“I mean, just, that (there was) 20 seconds left. I’m not blaming anybody, I’m just saying it’s unfortunate and we both probably should have had our walk-ons in.

“I’m not blaming anybody. The game was over. A situation like that you hope never happens, but especially when it does not have any bearing on the outcome of the game. That’s the unfortunate part of that.”

While his comments may have been received one way, it was clear Krzyzewski wasn’t singling out Williams for having his best player on the floor late in a game lacking suspense. Hansbrough scored 26 points and grabbed 17 rebounds.

Krzyzewski accepted responsibility in having Henderson, who scored 16 points in 30 minutes, out there as well.

According to the final game book, UNC had on the floor: Hansbrough, Danny Green (10 minutes), Deon Thompson (13), Bobby Frasor (9), and senior walk-on Dewey Burke (3).

Duke had in Henderson, Jon Scheyer (35 minutes), DeMarcus Nelson (35), Marty Pocius (3), and walk-on Steve Johnson (1).

Williams was asked about Krzyzewski’s comments:

“I don’t understand that,” he said. “I mean both teams had ‘em in. … In fact, we had a substitute (waiting to check in) if you want to go back and look at that. If you go back and look Michael Copeland was sitting up at the (scorer’s table) because I was trying to get Tyler out of the game.

“It’s not my fault that Tyler got the offensive rebound and somebody else missed the sucker. But that is enough said about that junk.”

For being ejected for “fighting” as the rules say, Henderson must sit out Duke’s next game, Thursday night against N.C. State in the first round of the ACC Tournament in Tampa.

[#98QBKiller]

Coach K, although I understand he was being badgered with questions after a Carolina beatdown, sounded like the biggest beeyotch of them. "It's unfortunate Hansbrough was still in the game." Roy pretty much set that notion straight (walk-on Copeland checking in, wasn't T's fault he actually wanted the rebound, 8 points in 17 seconds UNC over Duke in the 70s). K has no klass. Pat Forde's article on the front page of ESPN.com NAILS it.

Tyler should have been out of the game at the one-minute mark. He'll ask Roy to pull him next time for sure though, if we can't beat you in the game we'll just physically beat your guys down! :laugh: :jk: I would never advocate anything like that.

And to say that Coach K has no class is ridiculous. This is the guy who won't let his players play ball unless they keep their GPAs up, no matter who the player is.

Youtube link:

Thanks man, it wasn't up last night.

[grego]

Tyler should have been out of the game at the one-minute mark. He'll ask Roy to pull him next time for sure though, if we can't beat you in the game we'll just physically beat your guys down! :laugh: :jk: I would never advocate anything like that.

And to say that Coach K has no class is ridiculous. This is the guy who won't let his players play ball unless they keep their GPAs up, no matter who the player is.

Thanks man, it wasn't up last night.

Also for the record, Krzyzewski was calling timeout with 50 seconds left and his team down by 13. So he clearly didn't think it was walk-on time at that point.

Naturally, this blame-the-victim jab went over wonderfully with Williams.

"I don't understand that," Williams responded, when told of Krzyzewski's barb.

"Gerald was in," Williams said, although Henderson did not start. "I mean, both teams had 'em in. Anybody else got any questions?"

sure, there is a difference between 50 seconds and 20, but apparently TH was coming out with a sub waiting at the scorers table at the next opporunity.

as far as coach K, his comments lacked class. even if he felt that way, you have to take the high road when your player does something like that and keep your mouth shut. an attempt to defend it is assanine.

[grego]

OK, for all you knee-jerk Duke haters Danny Green and Reyshawn Terry of UNC don't think it was intentional.

Check this out and get a life:

http://www.starnewsonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?Category=weblog03

yank, he may not have injured TH intentionally, but i dont think theres any doubt that he was intentionally attempting a hard foul. i think when you pummel a guys nose while attempting a hard foul under those circumstances, you have to take the criticism- and thats no matter what team is doing it.

[frommd]

He may not have had the intent to injure, but he sure didn't show any remorse when he did it. He scowled as he walked back to the bench. He didn't go over to check and see if he was okay after he was laying on the court facedown. Also, he was obviously trying to give a hard foul, and the injury occurred. So, he'll still have to face the penalty.

[DaRock]

Total dirty shot! Saw it from many angles, what an absolute punk Henderson is. Billy Packer needs to shut his mouth too, before he starts taking one side or another completely. Watch the clip, you see Hednerson's eyes looking at the ball for one second, then the ball disappears, his attention goes to Hansbrough and swings away.

What a sore loser!

[halter91]

2 of their starters fouled out, Paulus and McRoberts. One of their starters only played 16 minutes, so basically all their big guns were in the game.

[macnoke03]

Was Henderson looking to commit a hard-foul? Yes. Did he intend to hurt Hansbrough? No.

If this happened in any other college basketball game yesterday nobody who is posting in this thread would care. Hard fouls of the exact same nature are laid out all the time. Unfortunately in this case, the outcome ended up being more serious than intended. As a Duke fan, I'm upset that Henderson is going to be suspended for Thursdays game, but I can live with it and understand it.

Point is, if something like this happend in the Creighton vs Southern Illinois game that was on earlier in the day, it probably wouldn't even be talked about. But, since it involved a Duke player everybody here jumps at the chance to pile on and throw around accusations that simply aren't true.

[willyt]

Cheap shot ...no question about it...no way to defend something like this...take full responsibilty and apologize for your actions......dont give me the.."the starters should'nt have been in ..this was bound to happen" crap. All that is is sour grapes. The only punk on the floor was Henderson. I hope you never see your son take a cheap shot like that..He may as well have sucker punched him. classless act from a classless player who,by the way, really isn't all that good!

[cjcdaman]

“Tyler got the rebound,” he said in an interview with Raleigh sports talk radio station 850 The Buzz that was obtained by the Star-News. “He pump-faked and got all our guys in the air. I was looking to block his shot or foul, and unfortunately I came down on him. It was worse than what I intended.

He answers it right there. He did intend to give a "hard foul".

[dfitzo53]

It was every bit as intentional as Laettner stomping that guy in the chest a few years back. The more you look at the tape the worse it gets, regardless of what Billy "The Coward" Packer says, and I fully expect the suspension to be extended for the duration of the ACC tourney...if not longer. That was one of the cheaper shots I've ever seen. I bet even John Chaney was embarassed about that one

Cold Pizza reported a few minutes ago that no appeals will be permitted and the decision is final. There won't be any extension or repeal of the suspension.

Point blank if that kid played for anyone other than Duke that would be all over the place today. Imagine if he was wearing a Maryland or a Georgetown jersey. It would be the first thing you saw on sportscenter, discussed on cnn. What a joke.

Seems to me that it is all over the place. The first fifteen minutes of Cold Pizza were about nothing but the Henderson hit, which got a little tiresome after minute two.

If you ask me, it was a pretty obvious cheap shot. I'm hearing a lot of stuff about Henderson not extending his elbow, as if that means it wasn't intentional. He threw his forearm right into the UNC player's face, and if you're not expecting to see a bloody nose when you do that, maybe you need an anatomy lesson.

That said, what irritates me most about this is that it's taking so much time away from actual sports news.

[flashback]

I didn't see it until this morning, but I give Henderson credit for having the presence of mind to hit Hansborough with his forearm instead of balling up his fist and swinging away. That was absolutely intentional. He jumped up in the air and took a swing at the guy. No question about it. Not up for debate.

That said, you can't end the guys career or even his season for losing his head at the end of beatdown administered by a rival. I think the one-game suspension is perfect.

For the record, I don't care for either of these teams. I've got a little bit of a soft spot for Maryland, because I was born in the Navy hospital in Pax River, and I think a Terrapin is a cool mascot.

[EersSkins05]

If this happened in any other college basketball game yesterday nobody who is posting in this thread would care. Hard fouls of the exact same nature are laid out all the time.

Um, how many basketball games have YOU seen where a guy gets his nose broken after a viscious foul in the closing seconds of the game (a foul that even the player admits was an intentional foul)?

Point is, if something like this happend in the Creighton vs Southern Illinois game that was on earlier in the day, it probably wouldn't even be talked about. But, since it involved a Duke player everybody here jumps at the chance to pile on and throw around accusations that simply aren't true.

Of course people are talking about it. You Duke and UNC fans don't get to go around pimping the UNC/Duke rivalry as the greatest thing since sliced bread and then turn around and complain about the coverage for a negative incident like this.

It was a nationally televised game in one of the biggest rivalries in sports. People would be talking about it just as much if it was Yankees/Red Sox, OSU/Michigan, whatever.

Probably the biggest and most recognizeable star on a top 5 basketball team with one of the biggest fanbases walked off of the court with blood all over his face/jersey after an intentional foul by an opposing player in the closing seconds of a blowout game.

How is that NOT news?

[macnoke03]

Um, how many basketball games have YOU seen where a guy gets his nose broken after a viscious foul in the closing seconds of the game (a foul that even the player admits was an intentional foul)?

Of course people are talking about it. You Duke and UNC fans don't get to go around pimping the UNC/Duke rivalry as the greatest thing since sliced bread and then turn around and complain about the coverage for a negative incident like this.

It was a nationally televised game in one of the biggest rivalries in sports. People would be talking about it just as much if it was Yankees/Red Sox, OSU/Michigan, whatever.

Probably the biggest and most recognizeable star on a top 5 basketball team with one of the biggest fanbases walked off of the court with blood all over his face/jersey after an intentional foul by an opposing player in the closing seconds of a blowout game.

How is that NOT news?

I think you really need to read my post again. The counter points you are trying to make against what I said have nothing to do with my post. Tell me where I said it wasn't news.

[DixieFlatline]

:laugh: Exactly, this injury will not hurt Hansbrough's game, he never breathes through his nose anyway.

As for the foul, I have no doubt that Henderson was trying to either block Handbrough or give him a hard foul but he had no intent to really hurt him. Remember, Duke only had one starter in (Sheyer) and all the others were bench players (including Henderson and #51 who has only played in two games this year for only two minutes each game). Despite this, UNC had most of its starters in and on the previous possession tried to dunk on Duke with a 12 point lead and less than :30 to go. Fortunately, Nelson blocked the blatantly disrespectful dunk attempt (and was then substituted on the next stoppage). UNC was trying to run up the score and dunk whenever they could in a game that was over. That is why Henderson went in so hard, he didn't want to get disrespected and dunked on. I don't think he was trying to hurt him at all but he must gave been extremely frustrated with the way that UNC was acting with such little class. You cannot excuse the foul and I hope Hansbrough is OK but it is not surprising that someone can lose their calm when the other team and their coach are being punks.

If the game was over, why was Duke fouling and calling timeouts? Frasor brought the ball out and Paulus fouled him at the 18 sec mark. Both he and McRoberts fouled out within the last minute which is why they weren't on the floor. Duke hadn't given up, so why should UNC act like its over?

[yank]

The Henderson-Hansbrough collision reminded me of a potentially much more dangerous incident three years ago during Luol Deng’s only game in Chapel Hill.

With about 9 minutes to play, and the game very tight, Deng reached out for a loose ball in front of the Duke bench. David Noel ran over him, smashing his head to the floor and rendering him unconscious for several moments.

No foul was called, and Rashad McCants scored before play was stopped. While Deng lay on the floor out cold, gracious Carolina fans yelled that he was faking it.

Over the next three minutes, with Deng on the bench, Carolina sandwiched a 9-0 run between two Duke baskets. By the time Deng re-entered the game, Duke was down 69-64. Duke fought back to send the game to overtime, and won on Chris Duhon’s length-of-the-court dash and reverse layup.

Noel slamming Deng to the floor almost cost Duke the game, and Deng came close to suffering a catastrophic injury. But, of course, no outraged columnists decried this assault, or predicted that it would leave an eternal stain on the honor of UNC basketball. No suspensions from the next game which didnt even happen to be the ACC tournament.

Sure two wrongs don't make a right, but let's lose the "oh, the humanity of it all" garbage.

[hkHog]

The Henderson-Hansbrough collision reminded me of a potentially much more dangerous incident three years ago during Luol Deng’s only game in Chapel Hill.

With about 9 minutes to play, and the game very tight, Deng reached out for a loose ball in front of the Duke bench. David Noel ran over him, smashing his head to the floor and rendering him unconscious for several moments.

No foul was called, and Rashad McCants scored before play was stopped. While Deng lay on the floor out cold, gracious Carolina fans yelled that he was faking it.

Over the next three minutes, with Deng on the bench, Carolina sandwiched a 9-0 run between two Duke baskets. By the time Deng re-entered the game, Duke was down 69-64. Duke fought back to send the game to overtime, and won on Chris Duhon’s length-of-the-court dash and reverse layup.

Noel slamming Deng to the floor almost cost Duke the game, and Deng came close to suffering a catastrophic injury. But, of course, no outraged columnists decried this assault, or predicted that it would leave an eternal stain on the honor of UNC basketball. No suspensions from the next game which didnt even happen to be the ACC tournament.

Sure two wrongs don't make a right, but let's lose the "oh, the humanity of it all" garbage.

For real! Down here in the triangle things are playing out very differently than they are on this message board. Most radio commentators are saying that if the foul had been just the same but there was no blood nobody would have cared. These fouls happen all the time. Did anyone watch the last GT vs. UNC game? The Tech players hammered Hansbrough the entire game with hard foul after hard foul. He had to stretch his back repeatedly before freethrows because he was so beat up. But that's the way he plays, he dominates you physically so the only chance you have to defend him is to try to match his aggression and physicality. That is why he gets beat up! People aren't TRYING to hurt him but he is a really tough dude and sometimes other players cannot remain control when trying to match his intensity.

Also, this foul was certainly less "intentional" than when Chris Paul punched Julius Hodge in the balls and was SUSPENDED FOR ONE GAME!!! This was not the same kind of cheapshot as that was, not even close! All you guys asking for Henderson to be suspended are just being rediculous.

I don't remember anyone asking for Hansbrough to be suspended when he clearly THREW A PUNCH at a NC State player's face a few weeks ago but barely missed. THAT was more intentional than this! This is the way ACC basketball is played, there is loads of emotion and sometimes blood is spilled. This was not intentional!

[#98QBKiller]

* Breaking News (No pun intended)

Hansbroughs nose is broken, Williams reported yesterday that it wasn't but his only source was Tyler himself. Now he's saying that Tyler's nose is broken

[DixieFlatline]

For real! Down here in the triangle things are playing out very differently than they are on this message board. Most radio commentators are saying that if the foul had been just the same but there was no blood nobody would have cared. These fouls happen all the time. Did anyone watch the last GT vs. UNC game? The Tech players hammered Hansbrough the entire game with hard foul after hard foul. He had to stretch his back repeatedly before freethrows because he was so beat up. But that's the way he plays, he dominates you physically so the only chance you have to defend him is to try to match his aggression and physicality. That is why he gets beat up! People aren't TRYING to hurt him but he is a really tough dude and sometimes other players cannot remain control when trying to match his intensity.

Also, this foul was certainly less "intentional" than when Chris Paul punched Julius Hodge in the balls and was SUSPENDED FOR ONE GAME!!! This was not the same kind of cheapshot as that was, not even close! All you guys asking for Henderson to be suspended are just being rediculous.

I don't remember anyone asking for Hansbrough to be suspended when he clearly THREW A PUNCH at a NC State player's face a few weeks ago but barely missed. THAT was more intentional than this! This is the way ACC basketball is played, there is loads of emotion and sometimes blood is spilled. This was not intentional!

The foul was intentional. In fact, the officials called it an intentional foul right after they blew the whistle. They only looked at the replay to see if it was flagrant enough to get tossed which it was. I don't think he went in head hunting, but he was definitely going in for a hard foul and to make sure the basket wasn't scored.

[gsuggs]

Woody Durham and Eric Montross called it like Henderson came out of nowhere and close fist punched him in the face. Idiots. When I got home and saw the open hand foul it reminded me once again why I hate listening to those tools. I do agree it was a VERY hard foul but not what I was expecting after hearing those two. Listening to them crying about the Georgia Tech fans chanting "Overrated" was priceless to.