Anyone here lift weights? If so, here's a great energy supplement I've been taking...

[PSUHeckler]

Lots of good information in this thread, can we just turn into the "supplement" thread

My thing is, I am going for a more lean look. I am pretty happy with my numbers right now, I am just trying to cut off the stubborn fat that sticks around. I am not sure if NO Explode is the right product for that

I dunno. If you want a 'lean' look, I'd probabaly stay away from any creatine-type products. If I were you I'd suggest plain whey protien, and plenty of running. The running is the best bet to lose the fat because it burns more calories than lifting per hour. After you trim down, and focus on lifting, you should see more results. You would have the same results from lifitng, but it'd be hidden underneath some of your pounds

[#98QBKiller]

Lots of good information in this thread, can we just turn into the "supplement" thread

My thing is, I am going for a more lean look. I am pretty happy with my numbers right now, I am just trying to cut off the stubborn fat that sticks around. I am not sure if NO Explode is the right product for that

It's all a personal thing really. I use the NO Explode for energy and focus at the gym. I have a very mixed up schedule and it's easy to get sidetracked so that's what works for me.

If you're going for lean, then you could use a low-fat, low-calorie protein and just do lots of cardio along with your lifting routine. Even taking a B-complex vitamin will give you lots of extra energy and help your metabolism out.

But again it's all about how your body works individually because we're all put together differently.

I just use the cheap GNC stuff, Strawberry mixed with Celltech usually. You don't have to spend a lot of money on Protein Supp's! Is the Ultramelt expensive?

I use the cheap GNC whey at home myself. It's called ON 100% I think (Optimum Nutrition).

The Ultramet costs $3.75 for a shake at my gym (but that's gym prices). I asked a guy at GNC about it and he said that they don't carry it and it's hard to find outside of smoothie bars in the gyms. I did find it on this Web site though, at wholesale price:

http://www.a1supplements.com/UltraMet-20-packs-p-109.html?gclid=CJD4up2lu4oCFQE6gQodBzFCPQ

It always comes in those individual-serving packets for some reason.

How long have you been using it?

I've been using it for about 3 weeks now.

[TheKurp]

Anyone that is heavily into lifting that does not take a protein supplement is doing their body a great disservice. Protein is so important in the repair of muscle breakdown that occurs during workouts. There is no way to get the necessary amount of protein without supplementation.

Protein: Power or Propaganda?

Athletes often are lured to high-protein diets and protein supplements by claims that they will enhance muscle development and improve athletic performance. Bodybuilders, in particular, respond to the message that their protein needs are so great that they can't meet them with food alone.

Is there any truth to the claim that athletes need to consume protein supplements?

Protein is the major nutrient, other than water, found in muscle. Muscle cells use protein to build and repair tissue. Protein also can be used as a source of energy. An athlete who does not consume adequate calories from carbohydrate and fat will use protein for energy rather than for muscle building and maintenance. This is why carbohydrate and fat are referred to as "protein sparing" energy nutrients. An athlete who consumes a high-protein diet and limits carbohydrate and fat intake will convert protein into glucose for energy. This is an inefficient process. It leads to an increased workload for the kidneys because they have to excrete the waste products produced by this process, and it can cause dehydration if water consumption is not sufficient to excrete these waste products. By using protein as an energy source the muscle is deprived of protein needed to build and repair tissue.

Even when carbohydrate and fat intake are adequate, consuming high amounts of protein will not build muscle tissue. Research at Kent State's Applied Physiology Research Laboratory showed that bodybuilders who consumed very high amounts of protein did not increase muscle mass or strength.

The upshot:

When athletes consume adequate calories, especially from carbohydrate, and do strength resistance training, dietary protein will be used to increase muscle size and strength. The amount of protein necessary to accomplish this can be found in foods. Protein and amino acid supplements are not needed.

How much protein does an athlete require? This depends on three factors: 1) body weight, 2) the type of exercise, and 3) caloric intake. Athletes do require more protein than the average sedentary adult. While the average adult needs 0.36 gram of protein per pound of body weight daily, competitive athletes need 0.6 - 1.0 gram of protein per pound of body weight. Endurance athletes and those doing intense exercise need the higher level of protein intake. For example, a 150-pound marathoner or bodybuilder needs 120 grams of protein daily (150 pounds X 0.8 gram of protein per pound.) The marathoner has higher protein needs because the body begins using more protein to meet energy needs toward the end of an event or training session. The bodybuilder needs additional protein to build muscle tissue. An athlete whose caloric intake is low also has higher protein needs. Because caloric intake from carbohydrate and fat does not meet this person's needs, protein is used for energy. For example, a 140-pound athlete who is on a weight-reduction diet requires 112 grams of protein daily (140 pounds X 0.8 gram protein per pound.)

This amount of protein can easily be obtained from food. The average American man gets about 95 grams of protein daily, and the average American woman takes in about 63 grams. Consider the amount of protein in these foods, and you will see how easy it is to get enough protein in your diet without supplements even if you have greater protein needs:

Food Protein

Poultry, fish, beef, pork 21 grams per 3oz serving

Cheese 7 grams per ounce

Milk, yogurt 8 grams per cup

Egg 6 grams per egg

Baked beans, chick peas, other legumes 14 grams per cup

Peanut Butter 9 grams per 2 tablespoons

What about protein supplements? For years protein powders and bars have been targeted to athletes as a way to build muscle mass. Protein powders and bars are usually derived from food sources such as milk, egg or soy. There is no evidence that powders or bars provide any advantage over natural food sources. Food sources also are less expensive than powders and bars.

The bottom line:

While consuming adequate protein is essential for muscle mass and strength, high protein diets don't build muscle tissue. Training and exercise do that. Total caloric intake, especially carbohydrate, is the single most important nutritional factor affecting increase of muscle tissue and improvements in athletic performance because without adequate caloric intake protein will be used for energy and not for muscle building.

[KDawg]

Thank you, Kurp.

[ZoEd]

Thank you, Kurp.

What did that article say that hasn't already been discussed? No **** protein alone doesn't build muscle. If it did people would be sitting around watching the tube sipping on protein drinks and looking like Arnold. However it did say this and its pretty much all I need to know.

Protein is the major nutrient, other than water, found in muscle. Muscle cells use protein to build and repair tissue.

How about this one?

While consuming adequate protein is essential for muscle mass and strength, high protein diets don't build muscle tissue. Training and exercise do that.

Again, no one has tried to say that protein is the "answer". It is extremely necessary for muscle growth and strength. Hence the word supplement, you know to supplement your diet.

Unlike you I don't have the time or the metabolism to ingest 5000 calories and enough high protein foods in a day to get the amount of protein I need. The problem I have with your posts is you seem to be advocating against supplements just because that's your chosen approach. Just because others choose to take supplements doesn't mean they're doing anything wrong. Rock on with your "natural" self; eating all the steroid injected beef and chicken. I'll opt for a protein shake instead. You have your way and others have theirs. Good on you, but don't hate because others chose supplements.

I will agree that the majority of the products on the market are bullcrap. Billions are spent on supplements many of which don't even come close to living up to the hype. That's why forums such as these are great for getting first hand info from ordinary Joes and not paid spokesman or ripped up roid heads pimping a product. :2cents:

[KDawg]

Awww, calm down. Getting a little bent out of shape for no reason. I still haven't said I look down on any of you. But I got pretty much attacked by everyone and now that article states exactly what I was saying.

high protein diets don't build muscle tissue. Training and exercise do that. Total caloric intake, especially carbohydrate, is the single most important nutritional factor affecting increase of muscle tissue and improvements in athletic performance because without adequate caloric intake protein will be used for energy and not for muscle building.

Don't get mad because I know what I'm talking about. Obviously protein is necessary, and supplementing your diet with it isn't a bad thing in the least. It's actually a good thing. It's just not necessary.

[@DCGoldPants]

I think the smartest route is to not go balls out for one thing or another.

If you hear something is good. Then get the smallest sample you can, and give it a shot. If you don't like it. Then you're not stuck with a tub of some protein powder you hate. If you like it, then you get the bigger one next time.

There isn't one single correct way to get yourself ripped. Its all about your schedule and lifestyle.

[TheKurp]

Just because others choose to take supplements doesn't mean they're doing anything wrong. Rock on with your "natural" self; eating all the steroid injected beef and chicken. I'll opt for a protein shake instead. You have your way and others have theirs. Good on you, but don't hate because others chose supplements.

How Much Protein Do You Need?

How Much Protein Do You Need?

Robert M. Russell, M.D., and Carmen Castanada Sceppa, M.D., Ph.D.

Carmen Castanada Sceppa, M.D, Ph.D., is a scientist working at the Jean Mayer USDA/Human Nutrition Research Center on Aging at Tufts University School of Medicine. Carmen's research emphasizes protein nutrition and physiological function of healthy older individuals and those with chronic illnesses.

RMR

How does the average intake in the United States measure up against the Recommended Dietary Allowance (RDA) for protein?

CCS

The typical American diet provides plenty of protein -- more than the RDA in most instances. The RDA represents the minimum amount of protein needed to fulfill protein needs in 97.5% of the population. This value is equal to 0.8 g of protein per kg body weight per day. The average mixed American diet provides from one to two times the RDA for protein. You might think, then, based on this that protein deficiency is unlikely in the U.S. . However, the RDA for protein has been derived from research studies performed on healthy individuals. Growing children, pregnant and lactating women, the elderly, and anyone undergoing severe stress (trauma, hospitalization, surgery), disease or disability need more protein.

RMR

What if you exercise?

CCS

We have seen in our lab that individuals undergoing endurance training increase their protein needs to about 1 to 1.2 g per kg per day, well above the RDA. In contrast, for subjects performing resistance exercises or weight lifting, the RDA for protein seems to be adequate. In resistance training, you are building up muscle and protein is used more efficiently.

Muscles are built from protein. Unlike fat cells for fat and muscle or liver for glucose, there is no place in the body to store protein. We need to consume enough protein to allow our muscles to be healthy and perform work.

RMR

Carmen, we hear a lot in the media about balancing different types of proteins. What are the best sources of protein and what exactly is meant by complementary proteins?

CCS

Animal and plant or vegetable foods are the two major protein sources. Animal protein foods include meat, poultry, fish, dairy products and eggs and are said to be of high biological value. That is, they contain all nine essential amino acids that can not be synthesized in the body (histidine, isoleucine, leucine, lysine, methionine, phenylalanine, threonine, tryptophan and valine).

Plant protein sources, although good for certain essential amino acids, do not always offer all nine essential amino acids in a single given food. For example, legumes lack methionine, while grains lack lysine. What is needed are complementary proteins, various protein food sources that, eaten together, enable a person to meet the standards of a high biologic protein diet.

RMR

Do vegetarians and people on macrobiotic diets get into problems with protein malnutrition?

CCS

There are two types of vegetarians. Lacto-ovo vegetarians and strict vegetarians or "vegans". Lacto vegetarians eat animal protein of high biological value, eggs and dairy products. Vegans, however, eat a more limited diet and often must take amino acids supplements to make up for their not-so-high biological protein diet. If vegans eat a variety of plant foods -- cereals, nuts, seeds, grains and legumes -- they'll be fine. They don't have to eat all these food items at a given meal. However, they should consume most or all of them during the course of the day to insure a well balanced protein diet of high biological value.

RMR

Can one take in too much protein?

CCS

The typical American diet, as we said earlier, is already providing plenty of protein. There is no value in adding even more protein to that amount, since protein cannot be stored in the body and the excess is eliminated in urine and feces.

When people start consuming too much protein (over 2.0 g/kg/d), the extra protein can become a stressful stimulus for the kidney. This is even more of a concern as we get older and our organs are less efficient and effective.

Very high levels of dietary protein have also been correlated with increased urinary calcium excretion. The loss of calcium through urine could potentially be harmful for bone turnover, with the added risk of osteoporosis. Finally, protein requires vitamin B6 in order to be metabolized and ultimately utilized in the body. Very high levels of dietary protein increase the requirement for this B vitamin.

RMR

Do you recommend that an athlete consuming a high amount of protein should take in additional calcium and vitamin B6?

CCS

As we said before, athletes performing weight bearing type of exercises don't need extra protein and, therefore, won't need to take calcium or B vitamin supplements, provided that they eat a well balanced diet. Indeed, weight-bearing exercise, in itself, helps prevent bone loss.

Endurance training, on the other hand, demands extra dietary protein but, fortunately, vitamin B6 is also present in protein-rich foods. If an athlete is trying to lose weight or to maintain very light weights, and, thus, is already consuming lower amounts of these nutrients, then I'd recommend additional calcium and vitamin B6.

RMR

We often put patients with severe liver disease and brain disease on protein-restricted diets. For these individuals, are there any types of protein that are better tolerated?

CCS

Liver disease certainly poses a problem as far as how protein and amino acids are handled in the body. The liver is the main organ for breaking down amino acids, so when it is impaired, amino acids levels can build up and become toxic. This is particularly worrisome in the case of the so-called aromatic amino acids, such as tryptophan and phenylalanine, which are processed by the liver.

But there are other amino acids, the so-called branched chain amino acids (leucine, isoleucine and valine), which are not metabolized in the liver and go directly into the tissues (brain, skeletal muscle and kidney). Another amino acid, glutamine, is broken down in the gut and the kidneys and, therefore, for a patient with liver disease, does not tend to become toxic. Foods (e.g., legumes) rich in these amino acids help these patients maintain their protein nutrition.

RMR

In health food stores and drug stores, there are many protein supplements. Should people take them?

CCS

Amino acid supplements are widely used by athletes who believe that having more of these basic building blocks available enables skeletal muscle to get stronger and have better endurance without the added calories. Amino acid supplements are not digested and absorbed in the body as readily as amino acids coming from food sources. Moreover, amino acid supplements tend to cause an imbalance of the amino acids already present in the body. Most of these supplements contain aromatic-type amino acids, such as tryptophan, which are constituents of the brain's neurotransmitters. Neurotransmitters will not act properly if the fine balance among all of the various types of amino acids is disturbed by too much supplementation. There are other conditions, one characterized by fever, skin rash, muscle and joint pains and edema of the legs, known as eosinophilia-myalgia, that may result from excess amino acid supplements. People taking amino acid products, who frequently go to health food stores and self-prescribe them, should be aware of these potential problems.

October, 1999 Email this article to a friend

References

1. Proteins and Amino Acids, 1989, In: Recommended Dietary Allowances. National Research Council, 10th. ed., National Academy Press, Washington 52-77.

2. WHO/FAO/UNU. Energy and Protein Metabolism. Geneva: World Health Organization, 1985.

3. Munro, H., 1989, Protein Nutriture and Requirements of the Elderly. In: Human Nutrition a Comprehensive Treatise. Nutrition, Aging, and the Elderly, H. Munro and D. Danford, eds., Volume 6, Plenum Press, New York, 153-181.

4. Crim MC, Munro H. Proteins and amino acids. In: Shils, Olson, and Shike, eds., Modern Nutrition in Health and Disease. Lea and Febiger, 1994:1-30.

[ZoEd]

Awww, calm down. Getting a little bent out of shape for no reason. I still haven't said I look down on any of you. But I got pretty much attacked by everyone and now that article states exactly what I was saying.

Don't get mad because I know what I'm talking about. Obviously protein is necessary, and supplementing your diet with it isn't a bad thing in the least. It's actually a good thing. It's just not necessary.

I'm not mad and I haven't seen anybody attack you. You're right? Show me where I'm wrong. We seem to be saying the same thing. Protein is necessary period, end of discussion. How you get it is up to you.

Bent out of shape? Not even, it's cyberspace dude. I could care less what you think. Maybe your getting roid rage from all that steroid injected beef and chicken you're eating. :laugh: Seriously, good on you for being able to eat that much and stay lean, my metabolism went south around 23yrs old. I don't have the genetics or the time for that matter to stay fit without help from supplements. I have yet to find the "answer" but I have found supplements that help, Testosterone, Andro, Winstrol j/k. Lighten up brother.

[KDawg]

I'm fine, ZoEd. Never got the least bit aggravated with you. But again you're assuming things. I never said that you were wrong. I just said I was right.

[ZoEd]

Kurp that article seems more geared toward Protein in aging individuals and t to people who are eating a well balanced diet. It's hard for me to eat a well balanced diet. Most of the time my choices are fast food or nothing; so most of the time it's nothing for me. That's why I need to supplement my diet. I'm sure if I was rich I could hire a personal trainer and a nutritionist and wouldn't need supplements but here in the real world it's just not that easy.

To become lean and lose body fat:

Strength training can really help you lose weight because after a strength training workout your body burns calories at a faster rate for up to 24 hours. So, you are still helping your body lose weight hours after your workout. To lose weight you need to burn more calories than you eat. However, one of the biggest mistakes people make is not eating enough protein. You need to eat fewer calories that come from sugar or carbohydrates, but make sure that you continue to eat enough of protein. Protein helps you build lean muscle.

http://www.med.umich.edu/1libr/sma/sma_strength_sma.htm

For every article you find against high protein diets and increased protein intake you find just as many for it. :2cents:

[ZoEd]

I'm fine, ZoEd. Never got the least bit aggravated with you. But again you're assuming things. I never said that you were wrong. I just said I was right.

Touche! :applause:

[#98QBKiller]

More gas for the fire:

Protein: Moving Closer to Center Stage

Until recently, protein got little attention. Like a quiet child in a classroom of rowdies, it was often overshadowed by fat, carbohydrates, and vitamins. That's changing. Lately there's been an explosion of interest in protein, largely triggered by high-protein diets for weight loss. Surprisingly little is known about protein and health. We know that adults need a minimum of 1 gram of protein for every kilogram of body weight per day to keep from slowly breaking down their own tissues. That's about 9 grams of protein for every 20 pounds. Beyond that, there's relatively little solid information on the ideal amount of protein in the diet, a healthy target for calories contributed by protein, or the best kinds of protein.

Around the world, millions of people don't get enough protein. Protein malnutrition leads to the condition known as kwashiorkor. Lack of protein can cause growth failure, loss of muscle mass, decreased immunity, weakening of the heart and respiratory system, and death.

Click link for full page:

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/protein.html

[SackMachine]

Are these suplements bad if you are still growing?

If you want to be in shape to be more competetive at a sport (good combination of speed & power) should these suplements be used or will it lean too much on power?

[PCS]

Are these suplements bad if you are still growing?

If you want to be in shape to be more competetive at a sport (good combination of speed & power) should these suplements be used or will it lean too much on power?

Shouldn't be. At least not the protein ones anyway. Just my opinion though.

********************

I take the whey supplement and use it as a replacement if you will. My job doesn't allow for alot of time for eating and those few minutes I have during the day, it's easier and faster for me to drink the stuff, (mixed with skim milk), that to stop and try to eat anything. And as I said before, it's cheaper for me to do so as well.

*

Of course, I said similar things about beer and carb loading at one time too.

[SackMachine]

Beer and carbs good, copy.

Say no more.