How feminism destroyed real men

[Enter Apotheosis]

4- The family dynamic worked well for a thousand generations in the past few generations we have had skyrocketing murder rates and social ills, why is that I wonder? Maybe MSF is not completely wrong? I actually agree with a lot of what he says.

Correlation does not equal causation. You don't think there are thousands of other reasons for "skyrocketing murder rates and social ills"?

Dumb argument.

[Ryman of the North]

well there were no serial killers ,rapists or spouse abuse in Native societies probably because the punishment equaled death (banishment) but also because roles and rules were folowed, one major difference between then and now is the disintegration of the family dynamic. perhaps read some anthropology textbooks before using big words like correlation and causation ,you can play with semantics all you wnat but the facts remain. There is a direct correlation between the decay of morals, values and the proliferation of societal ills and the decline of the importance of family and gender roles. to suggest otherwise is rank stupidity. All civilisations go through this as it is part of a cycle but as we all know all civilisations fall as well.

[CandaceM23]

1- I am dating an awesome girl who has no trouble speaking her mind and I would never want her to feel like she couldnt. I do get frustrated when she tries telling me what to do and the fact that I feel obligated to send her money even though she makes A LOT more than I do because shes a woman and thats how we do things in my family and she's crappy at money management. funny how women seem to wnat equality but only where it suits them, I worked in the oilpatch, in forestry and other industries and trust me there is a reason why men make more than women, its because we do all the ****tiest jobs! I have never seen a woman standing in water up to her knees in -30 weather, I have neevr seen a woman swing a chainsaw for 7 staright days 19 hours a day!

2- woman are weaker than men physically, Having had a bad experience with a female firefighter on my crew I can honestly say that while we may be equal in some areas we are not equal in all. To suggest otherwise is just stupid.

3-vaginas rule the world, as my dad likes to say we men spend the first hour of our lives getting out and then the rest of our lives trying to get back in. Women who realise this power dont have to flaunt it they know how to use this power judiciously. the problem is the women who glorify it.

1. So she has bad money management ... and she's your girlfriend ... and she makes more money than you ... and you're sending her money? Whats wrong with YOU? You're only aiding her mismanagement of money and bailing her out. And poor money management isn't a quality of women, it's more of a personality trait. So you've got two choices - either continue to bail her out of her financial problems and continue to allow her to walk all over you or put your foot down and tell her you're not sending anymore money. If it were me, I'd grow some cahones and tell her that I'm not sending anymore money ....

2. Some women are weaker. No doubt. Our bodies are built differently. No secret there .... But I'm sure that there's a woman somewhere on this world that's beaten a man's ass before .... Me being one of them.

3. Yes, you men love the vagina. Once you have a bit of it, you continually come back for more and it takes over your life. Thats not a woman's problem ... that's the man's problem for not being able to control their own urges and desires. If a man is stupid enough to fall for the tricks that a woman pulls in terms of luring a man in with her sexual prowless - then thats the man's fault for not seeing through it ..... BOTH MEN AND WOMEN PLAY GAMES.

[Ryman of the North]

1. So she has bad money management ... and she's your girlfriend ... and she makes more money than you ... and you're sending her money? Whats wrong with YOU? You're only aiding her mismanagement of money and bailing her out. And poor money management isn't a quality of women, it's more of a personality trait. So you've got two choices - either continue to bail her out of her financial problems and continue to allow her to walk all over you or put your foot down and tell her you're not sending anymore money. If it were me, I'd grow some cahones and tell her that I'm not sending anymore money ....

I don't mind sending her money, I wish she would learn better money management skills though. It's tough because she comes form a wealthy background and never had to learn. and I'm not saying poor money managemnet is sex trait. I am planning on going over her finances with her when she gets home because with the amount that she makes modelling she should never be broke but I admit that I dont understand how her contracts work. I feel as a man it's my responsibility to help her out when I can though, thats the way I was raised.

2. Some women are weaker. No doubt. Our bodies are built differently. No secret there .... But I'm sure that there's a woman somewhere on this world that's beaten a man's ass before .... Me being one of them.

I feel safe in saying that there isn't a woman on earth that could kick my ass but then again im 6-4 and 330 pounds and work as a security consultant/bodyguard,lol honestly though that wasnt my point, my point was that women need to be realistic in their desires for equality, when I was a crew leader in initial attack I often had to carry 2 chainsaws because the girl on my crew couldnt carry or start her own! (she got in with different standards and thats just wrong,) there may be women out there who could do the job but I havent seen too many(maybe 3 out of the 20 or so I have met) if you were in a burning building who would you wnat coming in to carry you out?

3. Yes, you men love the vagina. Once you have a bit of it, you continually come back for more and it takes over your life. Thats not a woman's problem ... that's the man's problem for not being able to control their own urges and desires. If a man is stupid enough to fall for the tricks that a woman pulls in terms of luring a man in with her sexual prowless - then thats the man's fault for not seeing through it ..... BOTH MEN AND WOMEN PLAY GAMES

Yes we do but dont blame us blame science, lol for whats it worth some of us dont let it rule our entire lives just most of it, and lets be honest, yes men and women play games but women are far better at it as they have the trump card. it used to be a womans only card but you have to admit its a pretty damn good one. honestly I love women and I think that they should be allowed to be equal but different, what saddens me is that women who dont follow the new feminist succsess mold are marginalised and that gender roles are going the way of the dinosaur.

.

[chomerics]

I, for a fact, know that there are women that, in the workplace, would be offended. I've been in two (maybe more, I have gotten upset about them so possibly blocked some from memory) situations where a female did in fact get offended as though I was belittling her. Some women are fanatical about being considered "equal". Some. In fact, it's probably a small minority, but that minority does exist.

Washington DC is the PC captial of the world, and the label "PC Police" is alive and well around here. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if it became a full-time salaried position at some companies.

Well, that is the exception, not the norm. I live in a liberal state and work in one of the most liberal towns in America. You would think that if ANYWHERE there would be these women, this would be the place. I have worked with a number of lesbian women, and yes, the butch ones that could most likely kick my ass. I've offered to help them out, and I have never had a problem. If they don;t need the help, they would say politely "no, thanks I've got it".

If a woman was offended by you offering her help with something, or holding the door open, maybe it was your approach that she was offended by. Saying something like "can I help you with that" has an entirely different meaning then saying "let me get that for you so you don't break a nail" :laugh: it could be something completely the opposite of what you are thinking, as to why she was offended, and you just misconstrued it as a male/female thing.

I can tell you in all of my 35 years, I have never offended a woman by being polite. In fact, I find it hard to believe a woman was offended from politeness, I do believe there was something else going on beneath the surface.

[SkinsHokieFan]

Can we all agree on this for God's sake?

1) There is no feminist conspiracy to destroy manhood, and if there is, men, by being men can prevent it from happening

2) Men and women are both very different, physically and emotionally. That being said, that should not prevent gender equity in the workplace nor society. But expecting men and women to be the same at everything is nonsense, because men and women are built and wired differently

[chomerics]

I don't mind sending her money, I wish she would learn better money management skills though. It's tough because she comes form a wealthy background and never had to learn. and I'm not saying poor money managemnet is sex trait. I am planning on going over her finances with her when she gets home because with the amount that she makes modelling she should never be broke but I admit that I dont understand how her contracts work. I feel as a man it's my responsibility to help her out when I can though, thats the way I was raised.

I know this is Candace's bit, but let me say this WHAT THE ***K IS WORNG WITH YOU!!!! You make less money then she does, and you send her money??? WTF??? That makes absolutely no sense to me, and using the fact "she is poor at money management" is no excuse. The only way I could see something like this would be if she had your kids, and was making about the same thing as you, which I presume is not the case.

As a man you "feel the responsibility to help her out"??? did you ever thing helping her out would be to NOT give her money? you are only enabling her faults and allowing her to mismanage money. You are not helping her, you are hurting her by allowing her to live a lifestyle she can not afford. Being an enabler to money decisions is no different then a person who sneaks an alcoholic the booze. Furthermore, you are allowing yourself to live less then you normally would by enabling her fault :doh:

Man, sometimes I just don't get people. . .but then again, I think on an entirely different wavelength as you do.

I feel safe in saying that there isn't a woman on earth that could kick my ass but then again im 6-4 and 330 pounds and work as a security consultant/bodyguard,lol honestly though that wasnt my point, my point was that women need to be realistic in their desires for equality, when I was a crew leader in initial attack I often had to carry 2 chainsaws because the girl on my crew couldnt carry or start her own! (she got in with different standards and thats just wrong,) there may be women out there who could do the job but I havent seen too many(maybe 3 out of the 20 or so I have met) if you were in a burning building who would you wnat coming in to carry you out?

There are women firefighters, as well as piss poor men firefighters. I assume they had to pass the same standardized test as males did. . .which would require taking a backpack weighing 80 pounds up 6 flights of stairs and down it? If she can do what other males can do, what is the problem? if she has to pass the same test, then there should be no issue. It isn't like she got the job because she had a vagina, she may have gotten to qualify for the job, but she would have had to get it on her own merits.

Yes we do but dont blame us blame science, lol for whats it worth some of us dont let it rule our entire lives just most of it, and lets be honest, yes men and women play games but women are far better at it as they have the trump card. it used to be a womans only card but you have to admit its a pretty damn good one. honestly I love women and I think that they should be allowed to be equal but different, what saddens me is that women who dont follow the new feminist succsess mold are marginalised and that gender roles are going the way of the dinosaur.

Gender roles SHOULD go the way of the dinosaur, as well as any other bigotry that exists in this world. You need to understand that being a white male does not entitle you to act like MSF. It allows you better access to everything in life, and you should take advantage of it.

[chomerics]

Can we all agree on this for God's sake?

1) There is no feminist conspiracy to destroy manhood, and if there is, men, by being men can prevent it from happening

2) Men and women are both very different, physically and emotionally. That being said, that should not prevent gender equity in the workplace nor society. But expecting men and women to be the same at everything is nonsense, because men and women are built and wired differently

Agreed on both. But you also can't exclude women, because there are plenty of women who are more then capable of completing the tasks of men. heck, read about Capt. Kathleen Wilder who made it through Green Beret training. There are women as capable as men in all aspects of life, it just isn't the norm but the exception.

And for Ryman, I would venture that Chyna could kick his ass :laugh:

[SkinsHokieFan]

Agreed on both. But you also can't exclude women, because there are plenty of women who are more then capable of completing the tasks of men. heck, read about Capt. Kathleen Wilder who made it through Green Beret training. There are women as capable as men in all aspects of life, it just isn't the norm but the exception.

And for Ryman, I would venture that Chyna could kick his ass :laugh:

Yes there are exceptions and as long as we recognize them as that we are fine

I just never understand why its such a sin to say men and women are built differently and wired differently, that a man can interpret events one way and a woman a completely other way

There is no reason that women should not get the same oppurtunities, pay, benifits as men, but there is also no reason to recognize that we are different creatures and there are different expectations from each sex

I still know very smart capable women my age who want nothing but to be mothers in 10 years and raise their kids while their husbands work. I see no reason why this should be any sort of problem at all. Likewise I see no reason why a man who chooses to stay home and raise his children because his wife can make a better living should be mocked and riddiculed

Ok, now I am arguing for the sake of arguing. I think I got my point across and we all seem to agree on some basic fundamentals here.

[CandaceM23]

I know this is Candace's bit, but let me say this WHAT THE ***K IS WORNG WITH YOU!!!! You make less money then she does, and you send her money??? WTF??? That makes absolutely no sense to me, and using the fact "she is poor at money management" is no excuse. The only way I could see something like this would be if she had your kids, and was making about the same thing as you, which I presume is not the case.

As a man you "feel the responsibility to help her out"??? did you ever thing helping her out would be to NOT give her money? you are only enabling her faults and allowing her to mismanage money. You are not helping her, you are hurting her by allowing her to live a lifestyle she can not afford. Being an enabler to money decisions is no different then a person who sneaks an alcoholic the booze. Furthermore, you are allowing yourself to live less then you normally would by enabling her fault :doh:

You are 100% right Mike. 100% right. Sounds like she's a wise woman ... to make more money than he and somehow she's conned him into sending her money. She's a smart woman.

Can we all agree on this for God's sake?

1) There is no feminist conspiracy to destroy manhood, and if there is, men, by being men can prevent it from happening

2) Men and women are both very different, physically and emotionally. That being said, that should not prevent gender equity in the workplace nor society. But expecting men and women to be the same at everything is nonsense, because men and women are built and wired differently

Ish, you're right. Women just need to have the same chances as men.

[chomerics]

Yes there are exceptions and as long as we recognize them as that we are fine

I just never understand why its such a sin to say men and women are built differently and wired differently, that a man can interpret events one way and a woman a completely other way

There is no reason that women should not get the same oppurtunities, pay, benifits as men, but there is also no reason to recognize that we are different creatures and there are different expectations from each sex

I still know very smart capable women my age who want nothing but to be mothers in 10 years and raise their kids while their husbands work. I see no reason why this should be any sort of problem at all. Likewise I see no reason why a man who chooses to stay home and raise his children because his wife can make a better living should be mocked and riddiculed

Ok, now I am arguing for the sake of arguing. I think I got my point across and we all seem to agree on some basic fundamentals here.

Yes we do, I think everything you said is pretty much spot on. The key though is your first sentence. . .

Yes there are exceptions and as long as we recognize them as that we are fine

. . . the problem lies in that people want to say there are no exceptions, and they use stereotypical language and anecdotal evidence to make their point. I know you do not, but we both saw people do this in this thread.

[Ryman of the North]

I know this is Candace's bit, but let me say this WHAT THE ***K IS WORNG WITH YOU!!!! You make less money then she does, and you send her money??? WTF??? That makes absolutely no sense to me, and using the fact "she is poor at money management" is no excuse. The only way I could see something like this would be if she had your kids, and was making about the same thing as you, which I presume is not the case.

As a man you "feel the responsibility to help her out"??? did you ever thing helping her out would be to NOT give her money? you are only enabling her faults and allowing her to mismanage money. You are not helping her, you are hurting her by allowing her to live a lifestyle she can not afford. Being an enabler to money decisions is no different then a person who sneaks an alcoholic the booze. Furthermore, you are allowing yourself to live less then you normally would by enabling her fault :doh:

Man, sometimes I just don't get people. . .but then again, I think on an entirely different wavelength as you do.

Fair enough, like i said we will be discussing it when she gets home, it is a bit of a sore point right now its more of a "she spent more than than she should have before going on the trip and now has no money to eat" The modelling world is messed up, they dont give them food money and they work on contract she needs to learn how to budget better. and my needs are relatively simple when shes not around as long as I have redskins football and food im good, lol

There are women firefighters, as well as piss poor men firefighters. I assume they had to pass the same standardized test as males did. . .which would require taking a backpack weighing 80 pounds up 6 flights of stairs and down it? If she can do what other males can do, what is the problem? if she has to pass the same test, then there should be no issue. It isn't like she got the job because she had a vagina, she may have gotten to qualify for the job, but she would have had to get it on her own merits.

If that was true I would have no problem with female firefighters but the fact is that they do not have standard test for both sexes and I can attest that at leats one woman was hired and could not do the job physically, I had to carry her chainsaw and take her turn carrying the wayjax pump because she simply could not do it(so I had to take double turns as the crew leader) she also got me written up because she felt I insulted her when I started her chainsaw for her after she couldnt (the fire was coming and I didnt have time to piss around). the problem is not the woman who wants to qualify on merit and do the job, the problem is the one who feels entitled and thinks that she should have the job because she wants it. Im not talking about crappy male firefighters (thats a whole other subject and ive met more than a few)

Gender roles SHOULD go the way of the dinosaur, as well as any other bigotry that exists in this world. You need to understand that being a white male does not entitle you to act like MSF. It allows you better access to everything in life, and you should take advantage of it.

you are entitled to your opinions but Gender roles are not bigotry they are a proven way of life and it may surprise you to find out that I'm not a white Male I am Metis and I have worked hard for everything I have, nothing was given to me and I'm proud of that. I earned my scholarships by playing football and being pretty good at it and having high marks that I got by studying not by being native(an accident of birth and nothing more) or through affirmitive action.

[CandaceM23]

Fair enough, like i said we will be discussing it when she gets home, it is a bit of a sore point right now its more of a "she spent more than than she should have before going on the trip and now has no money to eat" The modelling world is messed up, they dont give them food money and they work on contract she needs to learn how to budget better. and my needs are relatively simple when shes not around as long as I have redskins football and food im good, lol

Uh oh! Man to the rescue! Give her a real good lecture. Put your foot down and make her read books about budgeting money!

And if she's been a model for a while ... and is familiar with the modeling world, then she should be smart enough to know how contracts work, therefore she has absolutely no excuse for overspending or whatever it is that you say she's doing. Sounds like she's got you by the balls and has you eating out of the palm of her hand. VIVA FEMINISM! :laugh:

[Ryman of the North]

Candace, My Gf does not "con" me into anything, Korea is expensive and frankly her though her money management skills are not great, She works on contract and is not used to saving money or having money issues and has never had to budget before.

she is only 22 so she has time to learn. She needs to learn that 40,000 for 3 months work is a lot of money but that when you work on contract you need to budget ahead of time and not buy silly stuff! She is learning and I think when she gets home we will figure it out. she took three months off when we got engaged and it really set her finanaces back because she had no money coming in for the first time since she started modelling.

If i did not wnat to send her money I would not but the idea of her struggling and eating rice for every meal does not appeal to me. Maybe I should clarify as well that she argues with me about sending money and that I make pretty good cash as well so its not like im starving.

[CandaceM23]

Candace, My Gf does not "con" me into anything, Korea is expensive and frankly her though her money management skills are not great, She works on contract and is not used to saving money or having money issues and has never had to budget before.

she is only 22 so she has time to learn. She needs to learn that 40,000 for 3 months work is a lot of money but that when you work on contract you need to budget ahead of time and not buy silly stuff! She is learning and I think when she gets home we will figure it out. she took three months off when we got engaged and it really set her finanaces back because she had no money coming in for the first time since she started modelling.

You're kidding me right? She's never had to budget? She's got $40,000 for three months and she's blown it all? That's not poor money management - thats just plain stupid.

And she's 22? She's got a lot of learning to do if she thinks that it's acceptable to blow $40,000 in three months ... and i'm sure that money management isn't the only thing that she needs to learn about.

Good luck to you .....

[herrmag]

I can tell you in all of my 35 years, I have never offended a woman by being polite. In fact, I find it hard to believe a woman was offended from politeness, I do believe there was something else going on beneath the surface.

Rest assured chom that I am very concious of both how I present myself and how others react towards my actions. The 2 or so situations that I ran into involved me asking if I could carry a box for a woman (she was struggling, and I offered politely), and the other was when I opened the car door for a co-worker. In the former, I was told that "just because she's a woman doesn't mean she can't lift heavy objects". In the latter, I was told that "we are not on a date so don't open doors for me" (and no, I was not being inappropriate, nor had I shown the least bit of interest in this woman, I was just always raised to open the car door for female passengers). That being said, it is probably a small minority, but it has made me very concious of how I interact with women at work.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I definitley concur with that

I work in an office with 10 women and 2 other men

I am very very careful in what I say and do because you just never know what can possibly happen in the workplace

Now after hours

Didn't you just write a few posts before this that you don't understand why men stopped saying what they felt regardless of whether it might offend someone?

I think what is more likely is that society has just changed. You yourself show that. If you think men should be real men yet you don't do some of the things you attribute to real men, then doesn't that show you times are just a bit different.

Things really aren't the complicated. Anyone who has self-respect and self-esteem knows when to act one way and when it's better to show restraint. It's a pretty easy give-and-take especially if you're with the right woman.

[redskins2redskins]

I like men to act like men.

I don't see anything wrong with men being polite thou.

I like a man to take charge and be aggressive up to a point.

I don't like someone to try and dictate or control my every move thou.

I don't like doing that to someone either. Although I'm sure that I can be too demanding at times.

I view myself as being independant and opinionated in my thinking.

In alot of cases women feel taken for granted,not valued and not able to take care of themselves by the opposite sex.

So they set out to prove differant,and do so everyday.

I'm not saying that all women set out to be ambitious just to prove something to a man,some do and some don't.

Men helped create feminism,IMO. So I don't believe that it destroyed real men.

If your a real man that could never happen.

Respect does play an important role in the whole thing,showing it from both sides.

My :2cents:

[Destino]

Since when did men care if someone was offended? I thought being offensive was the natural state of man. We have to be trained our whole lives to limit the amount of people we offend. If a woman was offended by my opening a door for her I think it would be impossible to avoid just bending over in laughter.

I would accuse her of making me feel uncomfortable by throwing out offensive accusations. That she should be careful who she calls sexist and that some of us are seriosusly hurt by such things. It's all BS of course but it would put the freak on the defensive and would make the situation an even better beer story.

[Midnight Judges]

If you agree with this article does that mean you don't think you are a real man?

[SkinsHokieFan]

Didn't you just write a few posts before this that you don't understand why men stopped saying what they felt regardless of whether it might offend someone?

In this case my job and avoiding a lawsuit takes precedence over not being afraid to offend someone

If it costs me my bi weekly direct deposit, I will keep my mouth shut

[TD_washingtonredskins]

In this case my job and avoiding a lawsuit takes precedence over not being afraid to offend someone

If it costs me my bi weekly direct deposit, I will keep my mouth shut

Sure, I understand that...and that's basically my point.

I wasn't so much trying to call you out as I was trying to illustrate that we live in a different world now than did our fathers and grandfathers. I'm not sure a stubborn, "man's man" would do all that well in today's society.

[Blighty Skins]

On the one hand women can't do all the jobs men can...such as change a flat tyre. I'd challenge any woman to take a wheel with rusted, over-tightened nuts, off or worse a rear wheel which has seized onto the hub due to the drums.

Then again during World War 2 when all the men were off to battle and women took over the manly jobs...they gave us one of the best bridges in London. Waterloo bridge, completely built by womens hands and very sturdy. We call it the "woman's bridge".

I think women are useful.

[chomerics]

such as change a flat tyre.

I think women are useful.

So is spell check. . .

:2cents:

[chomerics]

Rest assured chom that I am very concious of both how I present myself and how others react towards my actions. The 2 or so situations that I ran into involved me asking if I could carry a box for a woman (she was struggling, and I offered politely), and the other was when I opened the car door for a co-worker. In the former, I was told that "just because she's a woman doesn't mean she can't lift heavy objects". In the latter, I was told that "we are not on a date so don't open doors for me" (and no, I was not being inappropriate, nor had I shown the least bit of interest in this woman, I was just always raised to open the car door for female passengers). That being said, it is probably a small minority, but it has made me very concious of how I interact with women at work.

Strange story, and I would be insulted if that was said to me. I have NEVER run across someone like this, and I do agree it is the VERY SMALL minority.