ldsdbomber Posted November 24, 2006 Share Posted November 24, 2006 Since most people decided to outright slaughter the opinions of the "mediots" who wrote us off this year - and on the whole they turned out to have gotten it pretty spot on about us, the Cowboys, and the rest of it, can we still be Redskins fans but have a more realistic look ahead to the next few years. How deep are our problems - can they be fixed for next year, should be just write it all off and look to rebuild completely, or what? some obvious points - Campbell has had a very nice start, obviously a lot will rest on whether he can develop like one of the other young gunslingers in the league that seem to be doing well. We've invested a lot in him, and if he can use this year to get some experience and confidence, then next year he could be ready to really lead the team - injuries have hurt, Moss has missed time, Portis has been banged up from the start. Obviously if you have those two healthy you have the basis for a really good offense, but we need others to step up, we need to see more of Cooley, Lloyd and Randle El which I think will be helped by having a quicker, more mobile and stronger armed QB at the helm. We also need to sort out whether Duckett or Betts is going to be behind Portis next year and exactly what Sellers and Cartwright are going to be contributing. Fauria doesn't seem to have been a hit either - the offensive line play has been up and down. they absolutely mashed the Jaguars good front seven, but have looked awful at other times. In some respects having a quicker QB may help, even though on paper the pass protection has looked good. I think it might be time to take off the Redskins coloured specs and consider how good Jansen, Samuels, Dockery etc really are. But can you add enough to rebuild the line in a short space of time, can they then learn the schemes etc for Saunders plays? Who could we realistically bring in. - I think familiarity with the Saunders scheme should mean an increase in production next year, if you look at his teams, they always start out slow in the first year and then kick in - so that is something to look forward to with enthusiasm, however, he's also enjoyed very solid offensive line play and I'm really not sure exactly how good our guys are any more. (off topic: Is Alex Gibbs of the famous Denver/Atlanta cut blocking schemes any relation to Joe? Why doesn't Snyder pay $$$ to him to come and sort out our blocking :-)))) - I don't know what happened to our defense, but I think this requires a lot of work. We need some serious pass rushing presence up front, we need at least one stud linebacker, and we need to find at least one stud cornerback, plus someone to go alongside Taylor (like Ryan Clark!) who not only can cover some as well as hitting, but also can act as a tutor/guide to Taylor. Seems like there are a lot of need areas on defense in particular. Special teams, well, I think a new kicker and punter wouldn't exactly hurt either! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted November 24, 2006 Share Posted November 24, 2006 I was one of the seven Redskins fans not elated with the return of Joe Gibbs. Since he had no experience running an NFL franchise and he was more than a decade behind in the coaching game, I thought he was a high-risk hire. My prediction was a .500 won-lost record for Gibbs Era ll. His approach to acquiring players predictably is showing up in year three for it's lack of roster depth. The team can't afford injuries and there is no margin for error in the selection of free agents. On the field, in his glory years, Joe was at the cutting edge of innovative offensive strategy. This time around, he's moving from one plan to another, still searching for something that will work consistently. As a coach, he's still good, but he's no longer great. He needs Grade A personnel to win a Super Bowl. In the NFL, there isn't much difference between a 6-10 team and one that finishes 10-6. Luck is a big factor. I see us continuing in this mediocre range in 2007-8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve57 Posted November 24, 2006 Share Posted November 24, 2006 I was one of the seven Redskins fans not elated with the return of Joe Gibbs. Since he had no experience running an NFL franchise and he was more than a decade behind in the coaching game, I thought he was a high-risk hire. My prediction was a .500 won-lost record for Gibbs Era ll.His approach to acquiring players predictably is showing up in year three for it's lack of roster depth. The team can't afford injuries and there is no margin for error in the selection of free agents. On the field, in his glory years, Joe was at the cutting edge of innovative offensive strategy. This time around, he's moving from one plan to another, still searching for something that will work consistently. As a coach, he's still good, but he's no longer great. He needs Grade A personnel to win a Super Bowl. In the NFL, there isn't much difference between a 6-10 team and one that finishes 10-6. Luck is a big factor. I see us continuing in this mediocre range in 2007-8. I agree somewhat with the above, but would not even give Gibbs a "good" mark at this point. He's little more than a figure head now. If you are giving speeches about getting back to fundamentals, and playing Redskin football, you are pretty much just tossing around slogans at this late stage. One thing about luck though, do you recall the old Gibbs teams having so many penalties? It's the little things that kill you, and on field execution is killing this team. And when I see a team getting tons of penalties, I see a not very well coached team and/or a team that no longer cares. To some extent, you make your own luck (though the ball will always bounce funny). As far as injuries go -- I'm not buying it. This team is overly stocked in receivers right now -- and at what cost to other parts of the team? Whatever the case, the Moss factor should not be a big deal. Portis -- I like his heart, but was he ever the right guy for whatever it is we are trying to do here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stew Posted November 24, 2006 Share Posted November 24, 2006 I see us continuing in this mediocre range in 2007-8. Not me! If we have a little stability we will do well next year. When we went from year one of a Gibbs offense to year two, we saw dramatic leaps in proficiency and overall improvement. The same will happen next year if we keep Saunders and maintain our talent positions. Year two in a Saunders run offense, with Campbell at the helm instead of Brunell, will be a step in the right direction. We need to upgrade both of our lines, our secondary, and maybe get a linebacker. Thats really it. We need to trim the fat (Hall, Brunell, AA, Holdman, Frost, Wright, Jimoh maybe) and maybe..maybe add one big name FA. Whip into shape with a strict offseason schedule (exact opposite of the lax schedule Gibbs let them have last season) and I see a work horse ready to produce next season. :2cents: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted November 24, 2006 Share Posted November 24, 2006 Steve -- One thing about luck though, do you recall the old Gibbs teams having so many penalties? It's the little things that kill you, and on field execution is killing this team. And when I see a team getting tons of penalties, I see a not very well coached team and/or a team that no longer cares. There's a third cause that you need to consider for the number of penalties: players cheat on the rules when they are over-matched by their opponent and they are trying to get an edge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted November 24, 2006 Share Posted November 24, 2006 Portis -- I like his heart, but was he ever the right guy for whatever it is we are trying to do here? In response to the question above - he seemed to do OK the last two years with 1300 and 1500 + yards repectivley. The latter being a franchise single season record. Who knows what might have happened if he had not got hurt in the first preseaon game. I know most fans focus on the O - and the QB in particular - but the reason for us being down this year can be found primarily on the other side of the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted November 24, 2006 Share Posted November 24, 2006 Stew -- Not me! If we have a little stability we will do well next year. When we went from year one of a Gibbs offense to year two, we saw dramatic leaps in proficiency and overall improvement. I hope you are right and I'm wrong but... The offense did improve from 2004 to 2005, but the dramatic difference was due to one player: Santana Moss who managed to get through an entire season unhampered by a hamstring injury for the only time in his pro career. We need to upgrade both of our lines, our secondary, and maybe get a linebacker. Thats really it. You say that like there's nothing to it. Add to your list resigning one of the RBs or replacing them and upgrading the kickers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo#44 Posted November 24, 2006 Share Posted November 24, 2006 Portis -- I like his heart, but was he ever the right guy for whatever it is we are trying to do here?In response to the question above - he seemed to do OK the last two years with 1300 and 1500 + yards repectivley. The latter being a franchise single season record. Who knows what might have happened if he had not got hurt in the first preseaon game. I know most fans focus on the O - and the QB in particular - but the reason for us being down this year can be found primarily on the other side of the ball. I think the offense has the personnel and is the easiest fixable problem. My thoughts on the defense: Our draft strategy has really come back to haunt us this year. We need: D-Line help: I personally, would love to see Alan Branch in a Skins uni. There is no one on the line that teams have to double. I think this move would help Carter, Griffin, and Marshall. LB: I am not sure what's up with Marshall - it is probably the sub-par play of the D-line. But a MLB might be needed. DB: Saftey, possible replacement for Springs? I don't think Rogers is that bad. He is just having a bad year - remember how everone said Newman was lost in his 2nd year? We'll see there. How cool would it be to see Tom Zbikowski there? Throw Rumph and Wright in the street. I am not so sure our O-line is that bad - just not in the right system. Drop this zone-blocking crap and go back to the smashmouth straight ahead running - tell Jansen "See man in front of you? Kill man in front of you!" That's his game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stew Posted November 24, 2006 Share Posted November 24, 2006 I hope you are right and I'm wrong but...The offense did improve from 2004 to 2005, but the dramatic difference was due to one player: Santana Moss who managed to get through an entire season unhampered by a hamstring injury for the only time in his pro career. You say that like there's nothing to it. Add to your list resigning one of the RBs or replacing them and upgrading the kickers. I dont see resigning Betts or Duckett as being that hard. One will go, the other will get what they want from us or close to it. probably Betts. A kicker, eh... we may draft one, who knows they are cheap comparetively, unless they are John Hall, then they are good until they get here, then they suck and cost a lot. Our offense improved because in year two, Gibbs looked at what CP did well in year one and went elaborated on it. We messed all the team cohesion up with the introduction of a Saunders system. You are right though, with Moss we finally had a deep threat we had been lacking and it gave us options. I think time in a system is big. This offseason will be extremely important, and I hope Gibbs doesnt give them short work days and a late training camp like he did this year. Year two in Saunders system will be like year two in the Gibbs system. The only difference will be, I think we will have better personnell this time around (better recievers then Farris, Patten, and Thrash) and maybe a more explosive game plan. We need to upgrade the OlLine though or else Campbell is gonna look like Ramsey did a while back. Im losing a little bit of faith in Jansen. Samuels looks like he regresses a little bit each year to me. :2cents: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve57 Posted November 24, 2006 Share Posted November 24, 2006 That's a good point Oldfan. As far as Portis goes. Yes, he's been very productive for us, but let's face it, he's a smallish back asked to be a Riggo. The wear and tear is starting to show, have we burned him up? Riggins himself was asking this question on his radio show. Thrash. Yeah, he's got limitations, but he's probably one of the closest things to a Gibbs (Era I) player that we have. He gives everything he has every week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ELCHALJE Posted November 24, 2006 Share Posted November 24, 2006 Hmmm. You need 1 or 2 guys up front who can actually rush the passer and stop the run. You need 1 solid linebacker and will live with the other 2. You need a CB because Springs is getting on and Rogers may not have it. Guess you need a safety too, since your $30 million AA is riding the bench. You need a kicker. You hope that Santana and Portis can stay healthy for a full year--not likely. You need a back up QB unless you are ok with paying Brunell the rest of his $43 million. Guess you better have a good draft the next couple of years. Err, got picks???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba9497 Posted November 24, 2006 Share Posted November 24, 2006 16-0, then 3-0 in playoffs, & Super Bowl Champions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-Tip1976 Posted November 24, 2006 Share Posted November 24, 2006 Damn, Bubba. What bet did you lose? I'm, of course, referencing your sig. As for the thread, Gibbs can get this thing back on track. He needs to fire Vinny, sign Clements, use early draft pick(s) for D-line and later picks for some young O-linemen. I hate to say it, but I think Buges needs to go. His philosophy doesn't mesh well with Saunder's. Buges is getting up there in age, and Al isn't going anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbuzz1962 Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 The problem I have with this threads point is that everyone assumed that the team would instantly become a great team because Joe Gibbs had been hired. It is realistic to believe that it would take more than a couple of years to undo what harm was already done to this team. I don't care who the team hired as head coach. This team was in a state of disarray and no one could turn this team around in a short period of time. Sure, the pocket book was opened to aquire some free agents, but as anyone knows by now, that cannot instantly turn a team around I honestly feel that Joe Gibbs knew he needed 4 or 5 years to get this team back into contention for the playoffs. His biggest mistake I feel, was recruiting Mark Brunell, who I think Gibbs thouyght could give this team some chance of winning with a veteran quarterback. We all know now, it was a huge mistake, and cost this team a couple of years of rebuilding. I honestly think Gibbs felt that a seasoned, veteran qb could boost the team ahead of the curve. We all know now that was a mistake. Like any Monday morning quarterback, hindsight is 20/20. I feel with JC pulling the trigger, this team will improve quickly and that by next season, he will be ready to lead the team. He will learn the receiver tendancies, and timing. With a good running game, he will improve that much faster. I really feel by next season, this team will be playoff bound, and Campbell will be a huge sucess. Patience is the hard part of rebuilding, but we must accept it. Don't give up on Gibbs just yet, I really feel he will do his part, and put the team back on the map. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ineedhelp Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 im a homer 16-0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bat~man Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 I was one of the seven Redskins fans not elated with the return of Joe Gibbs. Since he had no experience running an NFL franchise and he was more than a decade behind in the coaching game, I thought he was a high-risk hire. My prediction was a .500 won-lost record for Gibbs Era ll.His approach to acquiring players predictably is showing up in year three for it's lack of roster depth. The team can't afford injuries and there is no margin for error in the selection of free agents. On the field, in his glory years, Joe was at the cutting edge of innovative offensive strategy. This time around, he's moving from one plan to another, still searching for something that will work consistently. As a coach, he's still good, but he's no longer great. He needs Grade A personnel to win a Super Bowl. In the NFL, there isn't much difference between a 6-10 team and one that finishes 10-6. Luck is a big factor. I see us continuing in this mediocre range in 2007-8. whatever , bet you didnt say this garbage last year ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AzSkinsFan63 Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 We need 2 top notch d-lineman...a MLB and another safety.. not to mention a cover corner....Wow!!!! offensively we can survive but need some depth and possible replacements for the O-line.....Wow! That sucks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 whatever , bet you didnt say this garbage last year ..... Yes, actually I did. That's why Om sarcastically tagged me "Monsieur Soleil" (Mister Sun). Reality's a bithc isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehogs Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 I'm with Oldman on this. Sure we made the playoffs but with a list of stuff we were looking to improve on coming in to this season. If Gibbs and the rest needed a 5 year plan to get things on track then that plan has suddenly become a 6-7 year plan with what has happened this year which is now a total bust. Even guys that back the coaching staff list a whole bunch of stuff that needs fixed here: thats a coaching failure if the strategy and team structure they have built is failing. I cant help myself from saying too that the preperation of this team in the pre-season and the impact on the season itself is nothing short of scandalous. Certain things in this organisation and fans are unhealthy - the inability to even question the likes of Gibbs because he is seen as some God-like figurehead is extremely damaging. There are other threads on this forum about bringing back so-and-so 'cos he used to work with Gibbs, and things were great then blah blah blah....we spend our time living in the past for christs sake! Its time for a year-zero around here. I would like to see Campbell out there with Moss and Portis so he has a full deck to go with then we'll see what the guy has but the team itself once again (for the umpteenth season) needs some major work across the board. 16-0 yadah yadah! whatever. Just give me a team that has a future and that plays and wins. Panthers game is live on sat over here Sunday night lets see what we are looking towards. :helmet: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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