Novak has a great leg

[TD_washingtonredskins]

dcoles11' date=' I think what most people are saying is that he has great potential and deserves a chance to develop it. Yes he has missed a few kicks, one of which (the 35 yarder in Indy) he should have easily made, but he proved himself at the college level, so he should be given a chance to do the same in the pros.

I've always liked Hall, but I think he is done - maybe for good - and the thought of developing a young kicker that we could depend on for year sounds pretty good to me. Is it a guarantee that he will succeed? Of course not, but I like the fact that the Skins are giving it a shot instead of going after more old veterans. Same with the punter Frost who has struggled at times, but lately seems to really be stepping up.[/quote']

Exactly my take. Whether it pans out or not, we're actually trying to address problems with long-term solutions (Frost & Novak) instead of band-aids (Landetta & an old kicker).

Now, if only we'd have the mentality across the board, we'd be an exciting young team (maybe we'll adopt that mentality when the time is right).

[dcoles11]

dcoles11' date=' I think what most people are saying is that he has great potential and deserves a chance to develop it. Yes he has missed a few kicks, one of which (the 35 yarder in Indy) he should have easily made, but he proved himself at the college level, so he should be given a chance to do the same in the pros.

I've always liked Hall, but I think he is done - maybe for good - and the thought of developing a young kicker that we could depend on for year sounds pretty good to me. Is it a guarantee that he will succeed? Of course not, but I like the fact that the Skins are giving it a shot instead of going after more old veterans. Same with the punter Frost who has struggled at times, but lately seems to really be stepping up.[/quote']

My point is, thats not the way the NFL works. There is alot of turnover in the kicking position for a reason.

You simply cannot wait for a kicker to develop, games are won and lost by small margins, its not a position where you can groom a player.

Kickers for the most part are a dime a dozen, a few teams are lucky enough to have a great kicker that they can rely on but it is definately not the norm.

If Novak continues on this 2 for 5 pace he will be gone as he should be. He is not great and can easily be replaced by someone that is waiting for a chance.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

If Novak continues on this 2 for 5 pace he will be gone as he should be. He is not great and can easily be replaced by someone that is waiting for a chance.

Using 2/5 as his pace is as irresponsible as me saying he's perfect from 47 yards this season or he's on a 1/1 pace.

It's WAY too small a sampling.

Weren't his numbers last year very good? I'm sure I can find them but I don't remember him missing too many FGs (besides two that got blocked).

Edit: Novak was 8/10 in 2005 if the stats from here (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/was2005.htm) are reliable.

I would use that as a more accurate indicator than him being 2/5 this year (with two misses coming from almost 50 yards).

[dcoles11]

Using 2/5 as his pace is as irresponsible as me saying he's perfect from 47 yards this season or he's on a 1/1 pace.

It's WAY too small a sampling.

Weren't his numbers last year very good? I'm sure I can find them but I don't remember him missing too many FGs (besides two that got blocked).

Edit: Novak was 8/10 in 2005 if the stats from here (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/was2005.htm) are reliable.

I would use that as a more accurate indicator than him being 2/5 this year (with two misses coming from almost 50 yards).

He is kicking to save his job every week, thats a fact.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

He is kicking to save his job every week, thats a fact.

I'm not really sure that a) that's a fact unless you're Danny Smith or what that has to do with the point of this thread...but OK.

[InsaneBoost]

You guarentee Novak, by nexy year, will be one of the Redskins best kickers??

What does that mean?

In the history of the Redskins? or just on the team?

Being that you only usually carry 1 place kicker on the team i'd hope he was best kicker on the Redskins if he was on the team :laugh: It would be kinda sad if some back up line backer was a better kicker. :doh:

No no, I just mean one of the better ones over the past couple of years, not in History, but give him time, and maybe he will be one of the better ones in History; hes young, and he has a lot of potiential

[dcoles11]

I'm not really sure that a) that's a fact unless you're Danny Smith or what that has to do with the point of this thread...but OK.

It is a fact because Novak himself made reference to it after the game when speaking to the press. Something about buying himself one more week as the kicker for the Redskins.

And it has everything to do with this thread because it proves my point that you don't wait around for a kicker to develop.

If your dime a dozen kicker is struggling you cut him go to the next guy and hope he catches fire.

You don't hang with an unproven guy that is 2-5, 2 misses coming indoors, when you are trying to win games.

If he goes 1 for 3 this week something similar he will be cut or atleast there will be kickers braught in during the week to Redskin Park who will audition to take his job.

[dcoles11]

No no, I just mean one of the better ones over the past couple of years, not in History, but give him time, and maybe he will be one of the better ones in History; hes young, and he has a lot of potiential

Its the NFL, where games are decided by FGs routinely, you don't have to be patient and wait on potential.

Make your kicks or go sell insurance, its that simple.

2 for 5 isn't going to cut it, he had better start being more consistant now.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

It is a fact because Novak himself made reference to it after the game when speaking to the press. Something about buying himself one more week as the kicker for the Redskins.

And it has everything to do with this thread because it proves my point that you don't wait around for a kicker to develop.

If your dime a dozen kicker is struggling you cut him go to the next guy and hope he catches fire.

You don't hang with an unproven guy that is 2-5, 2 misses coming indoors, when you are trying to win games.

If he goes 1 for 3 this week something similar he will be cut or atleast there will be kickers braught in during the week to Redskin Park who will audition to take his job.

Well, even if that is the case, that doesn't mean it's the best thing to do.

For example, let's say he goes 1/3 and we lose to Philly. At 3-6, what is the point of bringing in some old retread that will retire in the next year or two? Why not let this guy get his bearings and stick around for more than 3 weeks and work through his issues? We did that with Frost and he's improved.

[dcoles11]

Well, even if that is the case, that doesn't mean it's the best thing to do.

For example, let's say he goes 1/3 and we lose to Philly. At 3-6, what is the point of bringing in some old retread that will retire in the next year or two? Why not let this guy get his bearings and stick around for more than 3 weeks and work through his issues? We did that with Frost and he's improved.

I have a better question for you.

What if he goes 1 for 3 next week and we win, putting us squarely back in the playoff hunt at 4-5 with 2 wins in a row in our division.

You still want 3 for 6 Novak kicking for us?

[cougarskins]

I can see it now. The Redskins bring in a high priced free agent kicker. A lot of fans will be happy until he does'nt do as well as we thought. Another blow up by the front office. Then the other group says we should have drafted our own and let him mature. Won't it be fun to second guess everybody.

[supadrummer]

I think we should keep Novak for a while and see how he does..He is 2-5 of fgs this season, but he has hit 2 game winners for us in 2 seasons.

I Say he goes and we get an experienced kicker. Also remember he missed one earlier in the cowboys game that should have put us ahead anyway!

He misses to many short field goals. look at last year. we were glad to get Hall back because Novak couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. Kickers don't get better. Either you can kick or you can't... We haven't really had a steady kicker since Chip Lowmiller left.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I have a better question for you.

What if he goes 1 for 3 next week and we win, putting us squarely back in the playoff hunt at 4-5 with 2 wins in a row in our division.

You still want 3 for 6 Novak kicking for us?

I see you will pose questions but not answer...I'll answer yours though.

Over some retread that no one else wanted? Sure.

Basically the only kickers available now are all in the same boat. The difference is, Novak has upside.

We went retread before (2000) and I don't think Eddie Murray was capable of kicking the ball beyond 40 yards. That means that we'd have been in OT last week, not beating Dallas on a 47-yard FG. Novak might be hit or miss from 45+, but at least there's a shot it's going through.

Again, you'll continue to say that he missed a 35-yarder. That's his one bad one...I'll grant you that!

However, his only other two misses are far from chip shots. Hell, Hall missed a < 40-yarder last year that would have pulled us within a TD in the playoffs...kickers shank kicks from time to time. I'm glad we have someone who has proven (twice now) that he can nail game-winning kicks. He was also very consistent last year (8/10) and is 2/3 this year on reasonable kicks.

Trust me, you're not going to sign someone off the street that is money in the bank from 49 yards.

[dcoles11]

I see you will pose questions but not answer...I'll answer yours though.

Over some retread that no one else wanted? Sure.

Basically the only kickers available now are all in the same boat. The difference is, Novak has upside.

We went retread before (2000) and I don't think Eddie Murray was capable of kicking the ball beyond 40 yards. That means that we'd have been in OT last week, not beating Dallas on a 47-yard FG. Novak might be hit or miss from 45+, but at least there's a shot it's going through.

Again, you'll continue to say that he missed a 35-yarder. That's his one bad one...I'll grant you that!

However, his only other two misses are far from chip shots. Hell, Hall missed a < 40-yarder last year that would have pulled us within a TD in the playoffs...kickers shank kicks from time to time. I'm glad we have someone who has proven (twice now) that he can nail game-winning kicks. He was also very consistent last year (8/10) and is 2/3 this year on reasonable kicks.

Trust me, you're not going to sign someone off the street that is money in the bank from 49 yards.

I want money in the bank from 35 yards, I want money in the bank on indoor kicks.

Either he starts being more consistant or he's out the door.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I want money in the bank from 35 yards, I want money in the bank on indoor kicks.

Either he starts being more consistant or he's out the door.

Cool. I guess we'll see how it plays out.

I think he has the ability to be something very good here in DC. Who knows, I'm not a kicking scout.

[No_Pressure]

Chip Lohmiller, one of our good kickers never made over 75% of his kicks with us. He was still a good kicker who came through in the clutch for a good team.

The great Mark Moseley made only 54.5% of his kicks his rookie season. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/moselmar01.htm yet he is probably one of the better kickers the Redskins had isnt he? He was an MVP. If you looked at just his rookie year, he is a terrible kicker.

[dcoles11]

Chip Lohmiller, one of our good kickers never made over 75% of his kicks with us. He was still a good kicker who came through in the clutch for a good team.

The great Mark Moseley made only 54.5% of his kicks his rookie season. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/moselmar01.htm yet he is probably one of the better kickers the Redskins had isnt he? He was an MVP. If you looked at just his rookie year, he is a terrible kicker.

Well Gibbs stuck with both of those guys and maybe for a reason.

Maybe he and the coaching staff know or feel that Novak is nothing more than a fill in for the time being.

I don't know how they grade kickers, besides just misses and makes, maybe they have some sort of scouting formula.

It's evident to me that Gibbs isn't sold on Novak, I think its apparent that Novak is kicking each week to save his job.

[MWP]

Wow, reading this thread just gave me a headache. So many terrible quotes to choose from.

Novak can miss any kick anywhere at anytime, I hold my breath when he attempts an extra point.

Please. The guy misses 35 and 49-yarders and you're acting like he's the most unreliable kicker in the league. If you look at Novak's past, you will see that he is a proven, consistent kicker.

Sure, he's had a semi-rough start, but as it has been stated by multiple people (which you keep discounting), kickers also take time to develop. You keep arguing that there is no room for improvement, but if that were the case, no kicker would be safe from being cut.

I'm willing to give Novak a chance. Look at Robbie Gould in Chicago -- he wasn't even on the radar last year (21-27) and this season he's 22-22, including 9-9 from 40-49 yards.

Have a little faith. Nothing worse than slamming a kicker's confidence and having him nervous to even step up and make an attempt.

By the way, Hall is 100% gone. His latest injury was the final straw. His health has been questionable over the past few seasons, which is the reason people have been doubting his ability. He was a reliable kicker in NY, sure, but fans were just waiting for another pulled muscle...which -- shocker -- ended up happening yet again.

:helmet:

[RedskinsMarchingBand]

Kickers don't develop, you can either kick or you cant.

He is always going to be hit or miss. I was shocked when he wasn't released after missing 2 FGs, one very short, indoors vs Indy.

He will never be consistant enough to keep a job long term, appreciate the kick to beat the Boys but he will not be a long term Redskin.

So are you a kicker? your kicking gets better over time, most of the NFL kickers did not start out great, and moved arond between teams before they got better. like matt Bryand and David Achers, and Even Neal Rackers.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

So are you a kicker? your kicking gets better over time, most of the NFL kickers did not start out great, and moved arond between teams before they got better. like matt Bryand and David Achers, and Even Neal Rackers.

Off topic...did you intentionally spell everyones' name in that list slightly wrong?

[pjfootballer]

Way to justify your entire argument with one example.

Just because David Akers turned out to be great dosen't mean everytime you get rid of a struggling kicker he is going to turn around and become and all pro.

Not a Novak lover here, but Nick Lowery is another example. Drafted in 1978 by New England, cut, sat out 1979 season and picked up by KC in 1980. All pro for his career.

Jim Breech, drafted by Oakland in 1979, cut and picked up by Cincinnati in 1980.

and even our own Mark Moseley drafted by Philly, then went to Houston, sat out the 74 season and picked up by us and became the NFL MVP in 1982.

Now I'm not saying Novak will do this, but hey we have no choice but to give him a chance this year. There is no one else. But I would like to bring in competition next year for him.

[pjfootballer]

When he graduated he was a Lou Grohl (I believe that is the awards name) finalist.

Lou "the toe" Groza :laugh:

[pjfootballer]

dcoles11' date=' I think what most people are saying is that he has great potential and deserves a chance to develop it. Yes he has missed a few kicks, one of which (the 35 yarder in Indy) he should have easily made, but he proved himself at the college level, so he should be given a chance to do the same in the pros.

I've always liked Hall, but I think he is done - maybe for good - and the thought of developing a young kicker that we could depend on for year sounds pretty good to me. Is it a guarantee that he will succeed? Of course not, but I like the fact that the Skins are giving it a shot instead of going after more old veterans. Same with the punter Frost who has struggled at times, but lately seems to really be stepping up.[/quote']

:applause: The voice of reason. :applause:

[pjfootballer]

Exactly my take. Whether it pans out or not, we're actually trying to address problems with long-term solutions (Frost & Novak) instead of band-aids (Landetta & an old kicker).

Now, if only we'd have the mentality across the board, we'd be an exciting young team (maybe we'll adopt that mentality when the time is right).

:applause: The voice of reason Part II. :applause:

[redskinsforlife]

He does not have a great leg.