Saunders has had to adjust because of Brunell....the biggest falsehood(very long)

[CPortJGibbs89]

I think a mobile quarterback would change the dimension of this offense. Defenses know that if they load up on the blitz and go after Brunell he is no threat at all to take a shot deep even though they are in man coverage. A mobile qb would help make the O-line better, allowing them not to have to hold there blocks longer and defenses knowing that if they all out blitz they can get burned but its just not going to happen with Brunell. If defenses had to think about a Qb who is big and has a big arm and can scramble they have more things to think about. But if they know a slow, older quarterback unwilling to hang in the pocket is back there all you gotta do is blitz baby, and it works everytime.

[TSO]

I am sorry but you are Dead Wrong in your logic, we have an nervous quarterback that does not have any ability to threow downfield or move the pocket. Not to mention the guy is 36 years of age and 6ft tall

You want a QB that can move the pocket? Wow... I never seen one like that! Imagine Brunell with Jedi powers!

Can it be that he's nervous because of the way our Oline is playing? I've seen him on many occasions stand in the pocket and take a hit. You just can't do that all the time though cuz then you're risking a sack, fumble, or forced throw. All of which are bad things.

[box8276]

Quick, super smart throws to beat a blitz will stop a blitz. Long completions, to say a b.lloyd, will open up the field and make all of boonells throws easier, because the D wont be crowding the LOS like they do now. Just stack it and dare boonell to beat them.

Boonell does not take advantage of 2/3 of the field. We go into indy 2-4 knowing how great a team they were, and he throws 3 yd. passes?!! I cant get over this. We should be bombing to moss and lloyd all dam game. IF we lose so what, we werent expected to win anyway. You think in your heart that Al saunders called a dumpoff on 3rd and 8? I dont. Look what AL did to us last year in KC. He pushes the gas pedal, and right now boonell is stuck in reverse.

[llcamino]

I've been a Brunell supporter, to a Ramsey supporter who was extremely angry when he was benched for Brunell, to a Brunell supporter again

This is where you lost me. I see a pattern here.....of someone who doesn't want to look at the QB play critically. Since JG has gotten here, our QB play has been below average at best, yet you've constantly supported whoever is in there. I can just imagine you supporting Todd Collins as well.

When you supported Brunell the first time, the Ramsey, then Brunell again, was it always someone else's fault?

[Taylor 36]

I've noticed he's not as fast as he was last year with avoiding the pressure. I think that has more to do with being focused on the intricacies of the play then anything else. It's a new offense. He's gonna look a little different when he's not as comfortable out there. It just took a little longer than we expected for him to get comfortable under Saunders' offense. I still stand by what I'm saying. I really don't believe Brunell doesn't have the ability to play well. From what I've seen he can make all the throws, he's accurate, and he makes good decisions most of the time.

Judging by that quote everyone is putting up now, the problem is he's not doing it fast enough. Attribute that to learning a new offense. Really though, he should've picked this up a little faster seeing he's been in the league for so long now. I don't know. He hasn't been in that many offenses though. Really, he's only been steeped in the Jacksonville offense and with our offense. That's it. His whole career, two NFL offenses. I don't know. That might have something to do with it.

I agree that Brunell is not the problem that a lot of people are trying to make him out to be, but I feel that you unitentionally pointed out a problem that many people have over-looked. We, the fans.

You said that MB hasn't picked up the new offense as quickly as we thought. Well, that is a problem WITH the fans. We were told that this offense would take up to a full year to really get to know and iron out all the details. Many people, however, ignored this, and obviously had expectations that were way beyond reasonable.

With that said, I knew that we weren't going to look like a super power offense until atleast late season. But, I thought we would be in better shape record wise than we are, because I expected our defense to play the way they have the past couple of seasons. Unfortunately, the defense is putrid. They are horrible, and they are the nomber one, main reason why this team is in the shape that it is in.

[skinsrevival]

If you go back and read some parts of the original post, you'll see that the stats you're posting are pretty much useless against what I was saying(I'm not being mean ). I've stated the reason why we don't have that many sacks. Two words. Mark Brunell. The guy you really dislike. Can you honestly tell me, from watching the games(not from stats) that you would feel comfortable behind our Oline on passing downs? I know I'd have happy feet. I'd expect to be clobbered for a sack more often than not, ESPECIALLY if I see an extra man blitzing. The way I see it is one thing leading to another. The Oline doesn't defend the pass rush well consistently, which leads to the QB psychologically bent towards feeling rushed, which leads to the dump offs we see even when he does have time.

But hey, maybe you're right and I'm just talking out of my :moon:

Don't mean to interrupt you guys, but I wanted to make a point regarding the "extra man blitzing". Rather than having "happy feet" Brunell needs to read the extra man blitzing, point it out to his offensive line and then take advantage of the one on one coverage. That's part of being a quarterback. There are many quarterbacks in the league who will walk up to the line of scrimmage and point out who or where they think the blitz is coming from and then take advantage of the one on one coverage. To blame that on the offensive line all of the time would not be fair. I'll use our defense as an example. How many times have you seen us blitz, only to get beat on one on one coverage to the outside. As a quarterback you have to see these things and then make the adjustments. Especially when there is an all out blitz, there are people open down the field. Brunell just has to pick out who the blitzer(s) are and make the throw.

[Art McDonough]

You're right that MB is not the only problem but he IS part of the problem. Opposing defenses do not respect our passing game and it certainly isn't because of our lack of quality receivers. All our opponents play a two deep cover 2 zone and put an eighth man in the box to stuff the run. Often they rotate coverage to Santana Moss' side of the field knowing full well MB has trouble throwing across to the other side. Why do you think Brandon Lloyd and ARE are so frustrated? The coverage is rotating away from them but they never even get a look. That eighth man up, by the way, can also read pass and drop into covering Cooley. Cooley admits while he can beat any LB in the league, a safety can often negate him because of the speed matchup. Gibbs said MB can make all the throws in practice. Duh. I can make all the shots on a driving range too but they seem to disappear on the golf course. What that comment tells me is,that in game situations, MB can't read the defenses and react quickly enough so the timing is off and open receivers aren't getting the ball. It also makes MB vulnerable to the blitz especially since he is not as mobile as he once was. The only option he has left is the dump off dink and dunk passing game. How to beat it? Defenses must respect our deep threat so the safety has to stay back in coverage. When that happens, our OL has to be able to control the line of scrimmage so CP can pound the ball. I'm not sure they can but we may not get to find out this year. Also, when the both safeties are covering deep zones, an LB is on Cooley which is the matchup we want. And if a QB can throw across the field, the coverage can't rotate to the strong side which puts Moss in single coverage. Those are just afew of the ways it works and illustrates why the play at QB has been problematic this year.

[SlobberKnockinFootball]

Here is the telling quote right here form the WP.

the coaching staff wants to emphasize to him that, in associate head coach Al Saunders's offense, decision-making must be immediate. Brunell's habit of dropping into the pocket, scanning the field and then patting the football has disrupted the timing of the offense, coaches say, and forced him to throw to a safety-valve receiver, most often a running back.

[armada58]

It upsets me when people point fingers at the O-Line. If you were to list the top 5 reasons why we are 2-5, the O-Line should NOT be on that list.

Amongst teams who have played 7 games, WE HAVE GIVEN UP THE FEWEST SACKS IN NFL!!!!!!! http://www.nfl.com/stats/teamsort/NFL/OFF-PASSING/2006/regular?sort_col_1=8&_1:col_1=11

Brunell had all day against Tennessee and Minnesota. All day. He could have eaten lunch and called his mom in the pocket. Yet he still looked like the exact same QB against Dallas, Indy, & NYG as he did against Minnesota and Tennessee.

Mark Brunell has had plenty of time to do his job this season. The pocket is there. the time is there. Is it there 100% of the time?? Hell no. But, NO NFL TEAM can say that. Every QB gets pressured. Every one.

I'm tired of this excuse for the Brunell Lovers. I would love to sit down and watch a game with you people. I really would. We will count the times Lloyd & ARE are open downfield and Brunell has adequate time to get the ball to them yet throws it to Betts for 3 yard gain.

[Morneblade]

We have a top 10 O-Line in the NFL. We do.

You're nuts. More like a bottom 10 line. We dont move the line of scrimamge on running downs, we dont open holes on running downs (CP is lucky to get a "crease") and we cant block 4, or sometimes 3 guys on passing downs. Now, we are PAYING for a top 10 line, but right now (and for the past 2 years) it's been pretty bad. Look at ther preseason, where we did alot of "man on man" blocking. And got distroyed doing it. Our line is bad, and soft. Ray Charles could see that.

[Morneblade]

It upsets me when people point fingers at the O-Line. If you were to list the top 5 reasons why we are 2-5, the O-Line should NOT be on that list.

Amongst teams who have played 7 games, WE HAVE GIVEN UP THE FEWEST SACKS IN NFL!!!!!!! http://www.nfl.com/stats/teamsort/NFL/OFF-PASSING/2006/regular?sort_col_1=8&_1:col_1=11

Brunell had all day against Tennessee and Minnesota. All day. He could have eaten lunch and called his mom in the pocket. Yet he still looked like the exact same QB against Dallas, Indy, & NYG as he did against Minnesota and Tennessee.

Mark Brunell has had plenty of time to do his job this season. The pocket is there. the time is there. Is it there 100% of the time?? Hell no. But, NO NFL TEAM can say that. Every QB gets pressured. Every one.

I'm tired of this excuse for the Brunell Lovers. I would love to sit down and watch a game with you people. I really would. We will count the times Lloyd & ARE are open downfield and Brunell has adequate time to get the ball to them yet throws it to Betts for 3 yard gain.

Dude, he was pressured the entire game at Minn. He doesnt get sacked because he gets rid of the dumps the ball off. Things that people here like yourself ***** about. dumping the ball off and throwing it away. Do me a favor and watch how much penitration the tackes get on our tackles on a pass play. Generally, he's got no place to step up to, as the ends run almost unhindered. Or look at a running play. Good O-lines can move people out. Like what Minnisota did to ours. Ours does not. They get stood up and pushed back. They do however alow alot of penatration into the backfield, and do not open holes.

All that being said, we need to see JC from here on out. Season is over and we need to see what we had in our #1 draft pick.

[Swift]

While Brunell is a more accurate passer this year than a year ago, the coaching staff wants to emphasize to him that, in associate head coach Al Saunders's offense, decision-making must be immediate. Brunell's habit of dropping into the pocket, scanning the field and then patting the football has disrupted the timing of the offense, coaches say, and forced him to throw to a safety-valve receiver, most often a running back.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/25/AR2006102501844.html

But Brunell is hardly surrounded by a bunch of stiffs. Santana Moss made the Pro Bowl last season, Clinton Portis is a perennial 1,500-yard rusher and only nine clubs have allowed fewer sacks than the Redskins (11). Seems to me if your quarterback's play mirrors the rest of the offense, then you've got an average (or worse) quarterback. And if your quarterback's play lifts the rest of the offense -- as Peyton Manning's clearly did, especially in the third quarter -- then you've got an above-average (or better) quarterback.

http://www.washtimes.com/sports/20061026-122251-5349r_page2.htm

Interesting news articles. Thanks for posting.

Those quotes worry me though in regards to bringing in Campbell. We all know Jason is more mobile than Brunell. What happens when the O-line protection breaks down on passing situations and Jason starts to scramble? I'm guessing that's going to be pretty disruptive to the timing of the offense.

Hmm, it's becoming apparent that Saunders' offense needs a very very good offensive line to be effective.

[PeterMP]

You said that MB hasn't picked up the new offense as quickly as we thought. Well, that is a problem WITH the fans. We were told that this offense would take up to a full year to really get to know and iron out all the details. Many people, however, ignored this, and obviously had expectations that were way beyond reasonable.

Really, who said that besides the fans. Can you supply a quote or a link. Saunders himself has pointed out that Warner picked it up pretty well his first year with the Rams (well enough to win a SB). They (the coaches and players) clearly expected to win THIS year. Brunnel made comments of the such, and the Duckett trade makes no sense if you don't plan on winning this year. I hear this excuse and just irratates me.

Brunnel is not all of the problem, but he is part of the problem. It is a self fullfilling prophecy. The OL stinks because teams get pressure. Teams get pressure because the OL stinks. Our OL is no worse than the Giants or Eagles, but they don't get the pressure that we get because teams are afraid of their QBs making plays if they blitz. Nobody is afraid of Brunell so teams just come after the QB on passing downs this makes the OL look bad. If Brunell would make some plays this would go away. Sometimes this requires standing in the pocket, taking the hit, and throwing the ball down field (far enough to pick up a 1st down).

Anyway our OL is not going to get better anytime soon so what is the solution?

[TSO]

This is where you lost me. I see a pattern here.....of someone who doesn't want to look at the QB play critically. Since JG has gotten here, our QB play has been below average at best, yet you've constantly supported whoever is in there. I can just imagine you supporting Todd Collins as well.

When you supported Brunell the first time, the Ramsey, then Brunell again, was it always someone else's fault?

lol...I guess I see how you would come to that. I think what I was stating was that I've been through the ups and downs with the team. When Brunell first came in in 04, I thought he didn't play well, but that he was still our best chance. Then once Ramsey came in I was proven wrong. Ramsey didn't play that well, and did lose us a game or two... but I felt he played better. Coming into the 05 season, I was with Ramsey all the way. When he was benched, I was angry. I knew he did have some faults. Some BIG faults that would lead to multiple TOs a game... but I just thought Brunell couldn't do it based off of what happened in 04. Then, I was proven wrong again. Brunell was having a Pro Bowl season up until, at least I feel, the Oakland loss. He played above average the rest of the way, then it went down hill the last three games we played that year, including the playoffs. I still felt he could get it done and that it was just a matter of upgrading at WR. Never thought we'd upgrade the whole offense though. That's for sure.

Hope that cleared everythin up.

[TSO]

I agree that Brunell is not the problem that a lot of people are trying to make him out to be, but I feel that you unitentionally pointed out a problem that many people have over-looked. We, the fans.

You said that MB hasn't picked up the new offense as quickly as we thought. Well, that is a problem WITH the fans. We were told that this offense would take up to a full year to really get to know and iron out all the details. Many people, however, ignored this, and obviously had expectations that were way beyond reasonable.

With that said, I knew that we weren't going to look like a super power offense until atleast late season. But, I thought we would be in better shape record wise than we are, because I expected our defense to play the way they have the past couple of seasons. Unfortunately, the defense is putrid. They are horrible, and they are the nomber one, main reason why this team is in the shape that it is in.

This is exactly how I feel. Great post.

[skinsrevival]

Interesting news articles. Thanks for posting.

Those quotes worry me though in regards to bringing in Campbell. We all know Jason is more mobile than Brunell. What happens when the O-line protection breaks down on passing situations and Jason starts to scramble? I'm guessing that's going to be pretty disruptive to the timing of the offense.

Hmm, it's becoming apparent that Saunders' offense needs a very very good offensive line to be effective.

O-lines are always going to have breakdowns in the NFL. That's just the nature of the game with all the speed on the defensive side of the ball. But, that's what separates the good QB's from the great. The great QB's can recognize a blitz and where it's coming from and then make you pay for it. They also know how to step up in the pocket and make throws over the middle. Hopefully Jason can learn that and be successful. Saunders did have one of the great offensive lines in KC, but ours is decent enough too get the job done. I think with JC in there teams will be a little more reluctant to stack the line if he can connect on deep passes. Obviously whenever he starts he will be blitzed a lot because he won't know how to pick out a blitzer right away. So I see him making a lot of mistakes early, but I think he will be a very good QB after getting real game experience.

[TSO]

Don't mean to interrupt you guys, but I wanted to make a point regarding the "extra man blitzing". Rather than having "happy feet" Brunell needs to read the extra man blitzing, point it out to his offensive line and then take advantage of the one on one coverage. That's part of being a quarterback. There are many quarterbacks in the league who will walk up to the line of scrimmage and point out who or where they think the blitz is coming from and then take advantage of the one on one coverage. To blame that on the offensive line all of the time would not be fair. I'll use our defense as an example. How many times have you seen us blitz, only to get beat on one on one coverage to the outside. As a quarterback you have to see these things and then make the adjustments. Especially when there is an all out blitz, there are people open down the field. Brunell just has to pick out who the blitzer(s) are and make the throw.

By all means, interrupt us!! I made this thread for people just like you to make me think about the situation. I could be wrong and I know that.

Now... about your point. I think you're actually accurate in your view. The problem is, or at least has been, that we just don't get the plays in time. We almost always line up way too late and then have to snap the ball off quickly. Also, Brunell and the Oline are actually quite good at knowing where the pressure is coming from. The problem is, the Oline still gets beat. Just thinking about the games we've played so far I can't tell you how many times the opposing team's defense had a player come through untouched on a blitz. We usually know where it's coming from, but it seems that our Oline just isn't getting it done. I think it's technique more than anything.

I don't know. You put up a good point though. We do seem to have the same snap count, and very little communication between the Olineman and the QB once we're lined up. I do see it sometimes though. If you notice, we usually do right when we line up, before actually getting set. They kind of point and tell each other while they're just about getting set.

[TSO]

Really, who said that besides the fans. Can you supply a quote or a link. Saunders himself has pointed out that Warner picked it up pretty well his first year with the Rams (well enough to win a SB). They (the coaches and players) clearly expected to win THIS year. Brunnel made comments of the such, and the Duckett trade makes no sense if you don't plan on winning this year. I hear this excuse and just irratates me.

Brunnel is not all of the problem, but he is part of the problem. It is a self fullfilling prophecy. The OL stinks because teams get pressure. Teams get pressure because the OL stinks. Our OL is no worse than the Giants or Eagles, but they don't get the pressure that we get because teams are afraid of their QBs making plays if they blitz. Nobody is afraid of Brunell so teams just come after the QB on passing downs this makes the OL look bad. If Brunell would make some plays this would go away. Sometimes this requires standing in the pocket, taking the hit, and throwing the ball down field (far enough to pick up a 1st down).

Anyway our OL is not going to get better anytime soon so what is the solution?

I think what he was saying was that the staff knew it would take a while for the Offense to completely gel. That is obvious. The problem is, the Super Bowl expectations were that way because,well, our Defense WAS a beast. We were scoring points AND giving our offense great field position all the time. Don't you miss all those three and outs our defense used to give us? Man... those were the days. Even if they didn't cause a turnover, they would cause the other team to punt the ball from where they started at on the field. That would, in and of itself, give us great field position to come away with at least a field goal by just converting two third downs.

What he was basically saying is that we all should've known the offense wasn't going to produce as much as we'd like real early. The staff and players said as much. What we didn't know, and hey it was unthinkable at the time, was that our defense would be among the worst ranked defenses in the league. THAT, in and of itself, well get you to a 2-5 record quickly. Our Offense could be better of course, but it's done enough for most of the games. If we have the defense we had a year ago we'd easily be 3-4, and arguably 4-3.

[jaw3232]

Great post. I would love to see someone time how long Brunell has had to pass before he is hit or (would have been hit - i.e. 2.1 seconds-defender was 2 steps away when ball thrown). Compare that to how much time the QB on the other team gets. Also note how many were rushing the QB. Any TIVO people with time on there hands?

[llcamino]

Great post. I would love to see someone time how long Brunell has had to pass before he is hit or (would have been hit - i.e. 2.1 seconds-defender was 2 steps away when ball thrown). Compare that to how much time the QB on the other team gets. Also note how many were rushing the QB. Any TIVO people with time on there hands?

But how much time he has is not a clear measurement of offensive line quality, as it does not account for the often HUGE pocket that forms 2 steps in front of Brunell but is NEVER utilized. It's hard to say how much time it would add, but if you watch TiVO, you will certainly see that there IS a pocket.

[RedzoneHunter]

Now we're blaming the O-line because Brunell doesn't know the plays? Sheeesh!

Any good QB would be looking to see which wideout had single coverage, but Brunell is patting the ball because he's not sure where the receivers are supposed to be. Then by the time he sees what pattern they are running, it's already too late because the defense quickly fills in the gaps, forcing Brunell to dump it off.

Brunell is not a bad QB, but any QB that doesn't fully understand the system he's in is going to look foolish.

[armada58]

Dude, he was pressured the entire game at Minn. He doesnt get sacked because he gets rid of the dumps the ball off. Things that people here like yourself ***** about. dumping the ball off and throwing it away. Do me a favor and watch how much penitration the tackes get on our tackles on a pass play. Generally, he's got no place to step up to, as the ends run almost unhindered. Or look at a running play. Good O-lines can move people out. Like what Minnisota did to ours. Ours does not. They get stood up and pushed back. They do however alow alot of penatration into the backfield, and do not open holes.

All that being said, we need to see JC from here on out. Season is over and we need to see what we had in our #1 draft pick.

You need to go back and watch the Minnesota game. You really do. Either your memory our your analysis (or both) are way off.

[armada58]

Now we're blaming the O-line because Brunell doesn't know the plays? Sheeesh!

Any good QB would be looking to see which wideout had single coverage, but Brunell is patting the ball because he's not sure where the receivers are supposed to be. Then by the time he sees what pattern they are running, it's already too late because the defense quickly fills in the gaps, forcing Brunell to dump it off.

Brunell is not a bad QB, but any QB that doesn't fully understand the system he's in is going to look foolish.

The Brunell Apologists will do anything to deflect blame from their boy.

Fewest sacks amongst teams to play 7 games, and it's somehow the O-Line's fault......... :doh:

[Ghost of]

submittedone,

How often are people going to have to point out to chaps like you how BAD Brunell is at using the pocket, sidestepping to avoid pressure and stepping up?

He has created at least 2 or 3 sacks by actually RUNNING INTO a blocked defensive lineman. ANd that's this year. You also seemed to NOT READ THE POST article which talked about the problem's Brunell is creating in the offense (none of them related to the O-line.) I also had a thread where I showed that not only is the Skins O-line pretty decent in pass protection but that the run game's YPC average, first downs and # of TDs is pretty good also.

[ST#21willbreaku]

I decided to start this thread(I know, what's the point now anyway?) because of a common line of thought that I see around here. I've been a Brunell supporter, to a Ramsey supporter who was extremely angry when he was benched for Brunell, to a Brunell supporter again who feels like Brunell gets criticized constantly for things he shouldn't be criticized for. With that in mind, I want to quote TakeTheFG and what his thoughts were when someone started a thread about how the Oline is not giving Brunell time to make the throws we all want him to.

First off... how many Peyton's are there in the league?

Yeah. One. That's it. I think all of us should understand that most teams do not have Generals out on the field like the Colts. It's that simple. Furthermore, you can't expect any QB to be able to effectively audible when he's in a new offense. Peyton has had the same OC for how long now?

90% of the QBs wouldn't be playing much better than Brunell has been with that kind of constant pressure. He's taking those seven step dropbacks because the O-line doesn't handle the rush well, and it worked fine last year. He was doing the same thing when we had some of our best offensive games and noone complained about it. Don't you think Brunell and the Oline have some sort of understanding with each other? I mean, come on.

It's obvious they do. At least they better have. He's only been playing with them for, what, two and a half seasons now?

Even with our obvious weakness in defending the pass rush, we haven't given up many sacks this season. That says a lot about Brunell and his pocket presence. What you're seeing is a veteran who is SUPER SMART adjusting for the Oline. Not the other way around.

Am I the only one who remembers what would happen to Ramsey when he would just sit in the pocket? Yeah, he had some great courage and poise, but man, he would either get destroyed or would cause a turnover when a team would effectively blitz. I remember that Bears game in 04 well.

Everyone gets on Brunell and how Saunders has had to adjust his offense to Brunell's strength and all that, but in reality, Gibbs' is telling the truth when he says Brunell is not the problem and can make all the throws you ask him to. Anyone watching the games without a bad case of BB(Brunell Bias) can see that. The play calling isn't at fault either. The reason we call all those quick pass plays is because of our Oline. It's really the major reason why Saunders has had to adjust to the players strength. NOT BRUNELL.

Remember the preseason games where we kept lining up in minimal protection formations? What happened? Yeah.

Notice how we almost NEVER do that anymore? How is that Brunells fault?

We've done it a few times since. Sometimes, we even tried to do it all game. If the opposing team has any pass rush ability, we would get crushed (see week 2 at Dallas).

Now, I know our Oline is actually pretty great. I know they can definitely pull and push Dlines around at will... but they're just not that good when they gotta sit back and defend the pass rush. They need help. In an Al Saunders passing game, you don't WANT to keep your RBs and TEs by the line helping out. You want them all running routes. You want opposing defenses to feel like they gotta defend the short and intermediate routes(which is ran by mainly RBs and TEs) and then hit em with the big pass plays to the WRs. How does that happen when your Oline consistently needs help defending the pass rush? It doesn't.

So like any good Offensive coordinator does, Al adjusted. We call a lot of Screens, quick slants(I wish we would see more of these cuz Lloyd is good at em), and of course, all those dump offs. Now, granted, those aren't CALLED necessarily, but I think Brunell knows that he has got to get rid of the ball quickly and that's why you see those happen all the time. It gets annoying when it happens on third and long, I know, but would you rather see a sack or, even worse, a forced throw?

Why don't we all say... wow, we hardly have any sacks, even though opposing Defenses seem to man handle our Oline on passing downs. Wow, Brunell rarely forces a pass leading to an INT. Wow, our running game is non-existent in pretty much all of our losses and is actually the MAIN REASON(along with our D) why we are 2-5 right now. It's not Brunell. He's not even a weakness like some say.

I just don't see it. Brunell aint perfect. He aint Peyton either. But in all honesty, who is? He's a SUPER SMART VETERAN guy who makes the right decisions. Gibbs knows what he's talking about. Before you say "We all know that, it's just we need a QB who can win us games, not just NOT LOSE us games", I'll remind you that NOT LOSING us a game is the same as winning them for us. ESPECIALLY if you're a QB where any mistake you make spells disaster for your offense.

If we fix our running game problems(much of which has to do with the playcalling on Saunders part), then we're great on offense. We'll still be 2-5 though. Maybe 3-4. Our Defense still lost us at least two games. Hopefully, with the way Gibbs has been talking lately... we see more of those runs up the middle. I know Saunders offense is based on stretching the field with the running game, opening up the intermediate passing game, thus causing defenses to over compensate in the middle so we can then hit em vertically on the sides... but, hey, if it aint working, it aint working. If the running game doesn't work, then the offense doesn't either.

In conclusion, stop with the BB. I've noticed it has quieted down a bit, since some of us are noticing Brunell really isn't the problem... but we're all still clamoring for Campbell to start cuz we think the season is over. Well, the season aint over, and Brunell still has what it takes to do well. Why take any chances? Let Campbell take his time and learn the system. Let Brunell play it out till he feels he can't. We can, and I believe WILL, be a winning team with Brunell at the helm.

You make some good points. I still think that there is plenty of times when Mark does have the protection and he still settles for the underneath stuff. He just does not have the arm strength to take chances unless he feels his guy is wide open or Gibbs says hey let's try to get it downfield. Very smart but just way to conservative.