A General Clock Management Question

[PotomacSkinsFan]

It seems like it's ingrained in NFL coaches heads to let time run down until the 2 and then use their time outs. I dont understand that.

A perfect example is last's nights game. We had over twenty-four seconds before the 2 minute warning and we let the clock run down to the tmw. Then we started calling our TO's. When they got to fourth down there was over a minute 40 on the clock, meaning it took less than 20 seconds for them to run those plays, and then they got to run off 40 extra seconds. If we had taken the Time outs before the two we would have had two minutes to operate instead of one. And, hypothetically, if they're plays lasted longer then those 24 seconds, then they would have been running off their 40 seconds to the 20 second mark or so (so, we still would have had more time).

My point, is that letting the clock run to the two is just letting a team burn 20 seconds. By doing that, we let them burn 60, as opposed to 40 (and considering the length of their plays last night, they would have run off none, and we would have had two minutes)

I hope you follow that. It's something I've been noticeing for a few years that EVERYONE in the league does, but this is the first time I've really seen it hurt us. thoughts?

[skinsbosoxheels]

Good point..They would have had 3rd and 10 at the 2 min warn...Probably would have kicked FG at about the 1min 15 sec range. It also appeared to me that ARE got a bad spot on the catch. It appeared he went out of bounds right at the 30. Would have been worth a challenge. May have been a 1st. Still would have had 1-2 plays left to get closer. I don't think there is a Skins fan anywhere that thought Hall would make that kick. Bad clock management...Red Zone play calling...Lost the 3rd down battle.

[TLusby]

I sat and asked the same question last night. Thanks for bringing it forward with a post.

[Rdskn4Lyf21]

I thought the game management was bad as stated above.

But the sad thing is, I knew Hall would miss. When I saw the field goal team come onto the field, I started throwing **** and cussing.

My dad's like what? And I said watch.

Missed. That is what aggravates the hell out of me...something so small, and we cannot do it.

We don't deserve to win if we believe Hall can win the game for us.

[PeterMP]

It seems like it's ingrained in NFL coaches heads to let time run down until the 2 and then use their time outs. I dont understand that.

Game management was bad, but you got it wrong. They took the first TO too early and other TO's before the 2 min. warning would have been a mistake. This is from ESPN.com's play-by-play. Vikings have the ball and just gotten 9 yards to bring up a second and 1 with 2:26 on the clock. Washington takes a timeout. The Vikings run the next play at 2:26, which gives them a first down. Figure that play actually took 6 seconds, but the Vikings let's it run down to the 2 min. warning. By taking their first time out after first down they gained 11 seconds 2:37-2:26 (I'm assuming if the Redskins had not used a TO the Vikings would have let the clock run from 2:37 to the 2 min. warning, but they might not have.). This makes sense actually if the Vikings aren't likely to get the first down (use timeouts 1, 2, 3 and likely get the ball back with more than 2 minutes on the clock), but with 2nd and 1 you have to almost assume they will get the 1st down.

Since they used the time out after first down (before the 2 min. warning), they didn't have a TO to stop the clock after 3rd down and the Vikings ran the clock all the way down before taking their TO and kicking the field goal. According to ESPN, third down started at 1:49. The Vikings took their time out 1:04. Assuming that third down took 6 sec (this is generous, but the same as I used above), the Redskins could have taken a timeout at 1:43 and the Vikings would have kicked their field goal at 1:43 not 1:04. This would have saved them 39 seconds. Taking the 1st timeout before the 2 min. warning only saved them 11 seconds so using the timeout there and not having one after 3rd down really cost them 28 sec (39-11).

Once they get the 1st down, which I argue you have to assume at 2nd and 1, you don't have enough TO's to get past 2nd down so they can still run the clock all the way down before kicking the fieldgoal and you lose the max amount of time. What your propose would work better than what they did (Vikings kick w/ ~1:14) left on the clock, but not as well as saving the TO. Maybe they were hoping for a pass and incompletion by the Viking at 2nd and 1. A shot to the endzone there is not unreasonable. In general though, I don't understand why coaches can't go through these variables before the game and then make the proper decision during the game.

[earl]

actually the skins called thier 1st TO w/ like 2:10 on the clock. it was 2nd and 2 and we called TO next play they ran for the 1st and 2min. 1st down stop TO, 2nd stop TO 3rd stop and they ran 40 seconds off. what really killed us there was the big 8 yd. pickup on 1st down.

[LoudMouth12thMan]

You are all wrong. The time out was taken at 2:24 and that was not a mistake. The situation was one where it was 2nd and 1 and we didn't have any other options. They got the first, we let the clock run down and they went three and out. We used the last two t.o.'s on 1st and 2nd and stopped them on 3rd. They ran it down, called time out, and kicked the field goal. Excellent clock management in that situation in giving us 1 minute left on the clock to work with.

HTTR!

[skinfan2k]

this was discussed this morning on 730... they actuall did a rehersal and said washington would maybe get about 10-15 sec extra because of this

[Skinsfan8402]

Yes I have noticed this in the past and also last night. We would have had nothing to lose by calling our 2nd TO before the 2 min warning, and we could have gained probably around 20 sec.

Can anyone legitimately justify waiting for the 2 min warning and then using our final two TO's? I see only a lose of those 20 sec and nothing gained. :whoknows:

[PotomacSkinsFan]

You are all wrong. The time out was taken at 2:24 and that was not a mistake. The situation was one where it was 2nd and 1 and we didn't have any other options. They got the first, we let the clock run down and they went three and out. We used the last two t.o.'s on 1st and 2nd and stopped them on 3rd. They ran it down, called time out, and kicked the field goal. Excellent clock management in that situation in giving us 1 minute left on the clock to work with.

HTTR!

It was hard for to describe so maybe it didn't come across well. They had 2nd and 1 with 2:24 and a stopped clock. They ran a play for a first down, instead of letting it run down to the TMW, we should have called time out, followed by our other time out after the next play. After their failed third down conversion, their would have only been 2 minutes left, but even if their plays lasted longer then what skinfan2k says still remains true:

this was discussed this morning on 730... they actuall did a rehersal and said washington would maybe get about 10-15 sec extra because of this

so either way we wind up with more time to work our drill

[RiggoReincarnated]

Biggest issue I had...we have the ball around the 30...4th and 1 with 17 secs left.

Why didn't we at least do a run play or a short sideline route to try and pick up 5-10 more yards?

Everyone in the stadium knew Hall was going to miss...he isn't accurate over 40 yards.

So I don't see how an extra play with 4th and 1 and 17 seconds left would have hurt us.

Sending Hall in to finish with a 47 yard field goal was like having Gibbs bend over for Childress.

This ****er Childress beat us...on our own home field. If we don't win next Sunday, we can kiss our playoff chances goodbye...because we'll be 0-2 in the conference, Philly is going to beat the Giants and be 2-0...and we already have lost the tiebreaker to Minnesota if we are fighting for a wild-card spot.

[hail2skins]

Riggo, a run play wouldn't have done much......you may have gained a couple of yards at best and then would've had to seriously scramble to spike the ball and stop the clock. A pass play is dicey as well.......we had the ball on the 39 with 47 seconds left and only picked up nine yards in three downs (including one incompletion). You didn't have the whole field to work with....if you misfire on the out pattern or if the receiver gets tackled in bounds, the game is over.

[neilclarke]

Biggest issue I had...we have the ball around the 30...4th and 1 with 17 secs left.

Why didn't we at least do a run play or a short sideline route to try and pick up 5-10 more yards?

Everyone in the stadium knew Hall was going to miss...he isn't accurate over 40 yards.

So I don't see how an extra play with 4th and 1 and 17 seconds left would have hurt us.

Sending Hall in to finish with a 47 yard field goal was like having Gibbs bend over for Childress.

This ****er Childress beat us...on our own home field. If we don't win next Sunday, we can kiss our playoff chances goodbye...because we'll be 0-2 in the conference, Philly is going to beat the Giants and be 2-0...and we already have lost the tiebreaker to Minnesota if we are fighting for a wild-card spot.

If Gibbs would have went for it on 4th and 1 and not picked it up and turned the ball over on downs, everyone would be screaming "Why didn't we try to kick a field goal to try & force overtime"

[allskinz]

Tuesday morning QB's...

[RiggoReincarnated]

If Gibbs would have went for it on 4th and 1 and not picked it up and turned the ball over on downs, everyone would be screaming "Why didn't we try to kick a field goal to try & force overtime"

You're absolutely right.

I'm just more confident in converting a 4th and 1 then I am with John Hall.

[IdahoREDSKIN]

It seems like it's ingrained in NFL coaches heads to let time run down until the 2 and then use their time outs. I dont understand that.

A perfect example is last's nights game. We had over twenty-four seconds before the 2 minute warning and we let the clock run down to the tmw. Then we started calling our TO's. When they got to fourth down there was over a minute 40 on the clock, meaning it took less than 20 seconds for them to run those plays, and then they got to run off 40 extra seconds. If we had taken the Time outs before the two we would have had two minutes to operate instead of one. And, hypothetically, if they're plays lasted longer then those 24 seconds, then they would have been running off their 40 seconds to the 20 second mark or so (so, we still would have had more time).

My point, is that letting the clock run to the two is just letting a team burn 20 seconds. By doing that, we let them burn 60, as opposed to 40 (and considering the length of their plays last night, they would have run off none, and we would have had two minutes)

I hope you follow that. It's something I've been noticeing for a few years that EVERYONE in the league does, but this is the first time I've really seen it hurt us. thoughts?

Good post and after looking at it, you are correct. We would have had at least 10 extra seconds to go for the first down, one pass toward the sideline and about 2 to 3 seconds left for a 30 yarder to tie.

[neilclarke]

You're absolutely right.

I'm just more confident in converting a 4th and 1 then I am with John Hall.

I agree with you... I wanted to see them run one more play there and try to get another 6-7-8 yards and pick up the first down, spike the ball, then kick the field goal.... Don't know if the outcome of a 40 yarder would have been any different than the 48 yarder, but I would have felt alot better about Hall's chances.