Do you hate George Preston Marshall?

[GeorgeAllen]

Please dont hate. I hated the cowboys more than anyone, anytime. 100th post!!!!!!!!

[Donita35]

Agreed. Remember, ours was the last team to integrate by adding a black player to its roster (via the Bobby Mitchell trade, IIRC). I don't believe that that - plus what DCsportsfan53 wrote - makes him indicative of his era.

The guy was a passionate and innovative sports owner during the early days of the league and his leadership created a relatively unique and close bond between our team and the city. OTOH, he was an unabashed bigot.

Nobody should forget that for many years, even into the beginnings of the Joe Gibbs era, many blacks in DC were fans of other teams rather than rooting for the 'Skins because of the very history we're talking about.

Hence why there are so many Cowboy fans in DC. Especially among blacks, I cannot speak for whites, but a personally know just as many black Redskin fans as black Cowboy fans. :doh: Just think about it, especially as a minority, you have pro-football team in your city that doesn't want minorities on the team. What are you going to do, root for their biggest rival - The Dallas Cowboys. Which when you think about it is kind of ironic in the geographical sense because Texas is the deep South and DC is sort of in the middle but still below that Mason Dixon Line. :2cents:

[GeorgeAllen]

Hence why there are so many Cowboy fans in DC. Especially among blacks, I cannot speak for whites, but a personally know just as many black Redskin fans as black Cowboy fans. :doh: Just think about it, especially as a minority, you have pro-football team in your city that doesn't want minorities on the team. What are you going to do, root for their biggest rival - The Dallas Cowboys. Which when you think about it is kind of ironic in the geographical sense because Texas is the deep South and DC is sort of in the middle but still below that Mason Dixon Line. :2cents:

Honestly, If I ask a cowboy fan who happens to be black they have said that the reason they are so is because of the minority issue.

[stwasm]

Honestly, If I ask a cowboy fan who happens to be black they have said that the reason they are so is because of the minority issue.

What's funny about that is, while the Cowboys were one of the first teams to recruit actively from historical black colleges and universities, for the longest time, Tex Schramm made it clear that he wanted NO blacks working in the front office after their playing days.

On an unrelated topic, the Redskins were one of the first teams to have black women on their cheerleading squads. Go figure!

[DCMONEY]

Okay just wondering. I went to Friendly and Potomac was one of our rivals. I spent a good portion of my youth in the Hillcrest Heights area. Congrats on the success of your relatives.

Edit: On a more topical note, Potomac's nickname was the Braves back when I was in school.

Thanks

Yeah I think they (Potomac) changed thier name because it was viewed offensive.

[ouvan59]

Its far too easy to claim someone is a product of their time when it comes to bigotry. After all' date=' if everyone was a racist back in the day, why isn't everyone still a racist?[/quote']

Views change on everything. Do you believe exactly as your Mom and Dad do? In 100 years do you think cultures will have the same beliefs that they do now? There will be something that we do now that is considered perfectly acceptable and normal that will absolutely astound further generations as inhumane.

It also kills me that so many people think that racism or bigotry is an American problem. You can go into every single country and find bigotry of some kind. My wife is Vietnamese and when we first started dating her Mom was disappointed that her daughter wasn't dating a nice Vietnamese boy but she was relieved I wasn't Filippino. Take a look at Great Britain, Africa, the Middle East, Eastern Europe, the Pacific Rim or the Far East.

[Thanos]

Okay just wondering. I went to Friendly and Potomac was one of our rivals. I spent a good portion of my youth in the Hillcrest Heights area. Congrats on the success of your relatives.

Edit: On a more topical note, Potomac's nickname was the Braves back when I was in school.

Man, what a small world.I'm a Potomac grad.I thought Crossland was our rival also.We just used your school as practice dummies.:laugh:

[DC_Native,NC_Fan]

It was a different world back then.

Thank god times have changed.

Yeah, I'm glad us law-abiding citizens don't have to lock our doors and we don't have to fear for our lives while walking down the street, unlike fifty years ago.

[DC_Native,NC_Fan]

Okay just wondering. I went to Friendly and Potomac was one of our rivals. I spent a good portion of my youth in the Hillcrest Heights area. Congrats on the success of your relatives.

Edit: On a more topical note, Potomac's nickname was the Braves back when I was in school.

Hey, did you know any Longs or Jordans from the Hillcrest Heights area?

[ouvan59]

Man, what a small world.I'm a Potomac grad.I thought Crossland was our rival also.We just used your school as practice dummies.:laugh:

LOL, not when I went there. We won the first Maryland State Championship back in 1974 and won again in 78. Lost in the State Championship game in 77 to the first great Seneca Valley team. Friendly's always been a pretty good football school.

Of course, if you are talking basketball I won't argue. We didn't win a single game while I went there until my senior year. When we finally won we got on the front page of the old Washington Star. Times have changed however and we recently won back-to-back State Championships in Bball.

[Donita35]

Honestly, If I ask a cowboy fan who happens to be black they have said that the reason they are so is because of the minority issue.

That and the whole Doug Williams thing. :doh:

[ouvan59]

Hey, did you know any Longs or Jordans from the Hillcrest Heights area?

Not that I remember but I'm an old fart so my memory is going . I guarantee my Mom did though. She sold a ton of real estate in southern PG county in the 70s and 80s and had the personality where she knew just about everybody.

Edit: I should note that if they are about my age and played baseball, football or basketball in that area I probably did know or at least play against them. I played for Oxon Hill and Fort Washington Boys Clubs, Burroughs JHS and Friendly HS (baseball only).

[redman]

Views change on everything. Do you believe exactly as your Mom and Dad do? In 100 years do you think cultures will have the same beliefs that they do now? There will be something that we do now that is considered perfectly acceptable and normal that will absolutely astound further generations as inhumane.

It also kills me that so many people think that racism or bigotry is an American problem. You can go into every single country and find bigotry of some kind. My wife is Vietnamese and when we first started dating her Mom was disappointed that her daughter wasn't dating a nice Vietnamese boy but she was relieved I wasn't Filippino. Take a look at Great Britain, Africa, the Middle East, Eastern Europe, the Pacific Rim or the Far East.

There is truth to the idea that a certain amount of bigotry can be explained away by pointing out that it was part of a commonly held set of beliefs at one point in time. Abraham Lincoln, known as the freer of slaves, also publicly said that he didn't think that blacks were capable of being the equal of whites in society "in this stage of their development." (Notably, however, he did the the right thing.)

Nevertheless, pointing out bigotry can be worse does not mean that it's acceptable. Racism is endemic in the human condition (while it can be encouraged through one's environment, it's a natural human trait to notice and point out and even make fun of differences in people). So is violence. Civilized, decent people work to diminish those traits.

George Preston Marshall held beliefs in this regard that were among the strongest of his generation. He was atypical in his bigotry. It is an unpleasant truth about the owner of the team that we all love, but it is the truth.

[ouvan59]

There is truth to the idea that a certain amount of bigotry can be explained away by pointing out that it was part of a commonly held set of beliefs at one point in time. Abraham Lincoln, known as the freer of slaves, also publicly said that he didn't think that blacks were capable of being the equal of whites in society "in this stage of their development." (Notably, however, he did the the right thing.)

Nevertheless, pointing out bigotry can be worse does not mean that it's acceptable. Racism is endemic in the human condition (while it can be encouraged through one's environment, it's a natural human trait to notice and point out and even make fun of differences in people). So is violence. Civilized, decent people work to diminish those traits.

George Preston Marshall held beliefs in this regard that were among the strongest of his generation. He was atypical in his bigotry. It is an unpleasant truth about the owner of the team that we all love, but it is the truth.

I don't disagree at all and I hope you don't think I was implying that Marshall's racism was acceptable because of when and/or how he was raised. But how and when he was raised plays a huge factor in why he held racist beliefs. There are beliefs held right now by all cultures that are racist in nature. Caucasians are no more or less racist than any group of people in this country. What sets white racism apart is the fact that this has been a white dominated society and thus they have the power to dominate other cultures accordingly. It is changing but it is way too slow for some and way too fast for others.

I loved your point about Lincoln. At the time he was considered extremely forward thinking but if someone were express the same views today they would be labeled a terrible racist. Al Campanis is an example of this. Campanis played with Jackie Robinson in the minors and was one of the few players that had his back. They were friends. Campanis was also known for signing minorities before it was accepted practice. The Dodgers while he was GM were considered one of, if not the most open organizations in sport. So it came as a great shock when he came out with his indefensible comments about minorities especially since he was supposed to be the open minded man in baseball. So even though he had a hand in breaking the color barrier he will now always go down in history for his racist remarks.

[Donita35]

You guys are kidding right...

Racism is Racism, regardless of what the race of the racist is. The problem of racism will never probably be solved, especially in America, because it is so deeply rooted in the development of this Nation. Everyone just needs to chillout (sometime) and take things for that they are worth. Plus, so many things can be considered racist or racially motivated depending on who the listener is and who the speaker is (especially among whites and blacks). For example, one poster said something about the black athlete versus the white athlete. Why can't they just be athletes??? For example, D'Pablo raised a good point, below, but again one could then raise the question does this only exist in sports??? Are blacks inferior in every other aspect other than sports???

A good example is Jackie Robinson' date=' who proved that Blacks are on the same level as Whites in the athletic arena. Marshall, if he had any sense of empathy for his fellow man, would not have held the beliefs he did. Most of us have chosen not to be racists because it is morally the right thing to do, and not because it seems to be in vogue.[/quote']

I don't doubt that D'Pablo had any racist intentions but I am only picking on you to make a point. (Please don't get mad). I am trying to illustrate that people can perceive things in outrageous ways and the intentions could have been purely innocent. Yeah sure people point out differences all the time and until we can sit back and have a corona and embrace our differences instead of shaming them, then racism will always exist.

Now back to Marshall, I definitely feel that the time in which he lived played a part in not only shaping his views, but also in how he expressed them. But, to me all is forgiven because the past is the past.

Here's to letting it go and moving on.

[ChocolateCitySkin]

He was an innovator, no doubt... from his introduction to halftime and elaborate pre-game shows and the use of a playoff system and separate divisions. But, a lot of those crappy teams were the direct result of his not wanting blacks on his team -- ironic when you look at the fact the Redskins played in a mostly-black city.

I want to spit on his milestone every time I'm at RFK. But, then I remember that he's probably roasting in eternal damnation at this point.

Bah I wanna see the oorang indians half time show. The one dude used wrestle a bear. Thats some old school footballness.

[dreamingwolf]

I dont hate him. I prefer the overt racist to the covert one, atleast you know what your dealing with. Now covert racists I hate as a rule, regardless of race or NFL affiliation.

[NavyDave]

Hence why there are so many Cowboy fans in DC. Especially among blacks, I cannot speak for whites, but a personally know just as many black Redskin fans as black Cowboy fans. :doh: Just think about it, especially as a minority, you have pro-football team in your city that doesn't want minorities on the team. What are you going to do, root for their biggest rival - The Dallas Cowboys. Which when you think about it is kind of ironic in the geographical sense because Texas is the deep South and DC is sort of in the middle but still below that Mason Dixon Line. :2cents:

My mom,my nephew and myself are the only Redskins fans while the rest chose other teams like the pokes

[MumboSauce]

It was a different world back then.

Thank god times have changed.

Really they haven't that much. It's just not as blatant.

I hate no one. Having a NFL franchise in DC/MD great. other than that I hardly acknowledge the bigot.

[AzSkinsFan63]

why?...what'd he do and why would I care now?

[Donita35]

My mom,my nephew and myself are the only Redskins fans while the rest chose other teams like the pokes

I hear ya. In my entire family, both sides that are from DC, root for the 'Skins with the exception of about three people. So I would say that my family has done a pretty job of avoiding the "Cowboy epidemic". I wish you much luck Dave trying to get your family to see the truth about the burgandy and gold.

:dallasuck :dallasuck :dallasuck

[Jesus, Mary & Joe Gibbs]

**** him

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Marshall's bigotry was part of the times. But the problem I have with his legacy is that he:

1. Refused to change with the times even when

2. His bigotry hurt his team on the playing field, because

3. His bigotry helped his team's bottom line in his view.

It's one thing to be a racist. It's quite another to knowingly exploit racism for profit.

I would like to see the memorials to him be gone from FedEx and RFK. We obviously don't need to remove him from the history books, but honoring him seems a bit much.

[pjfootballer]

He left an indelible mark on this franchise, so he will always be a historic figure highly regarded for his many innovations and contributions to the game. It is unfortunate that some of his personal beliefs were so distasteful, but this was largely a product of the era in which he lived. Not making excuses, but I'm not willing to villify the guy either.

Many highly regarded people have crazy opinions, prejudices, etc. but it doesn't mean that their legacy should be completely disregarded because of this.

Walt Disney was a rabid Anti-Semite, but tons of people still adore him...

I think this guy hit the nail on the head.

[Matt [Redskins Fan]]

George Preston Marshall is awesome..

for me to poop on!

Sadly, he's a part of the franchise's history. However, many great institutions were marred with un-PC actions around this time, so we're hardly alone. I'm not just talking about sports here.