Let's draft Vince Young

[LaVarGreen2856]

No need to get hostile. A few facts might be in order here. People can judge for themselves.

............................. Rating ........Completion Per.

2003 Vince Young.......130.64 ........ 58.7

2004 Vince Young.......128.37 ........ 59.2

2005 Vince Young.......163.95 ........ 66.2

Mmm.... wasn't the highest QB rating possible of 158.3??

Is the college rating different from that of the NFL?

[skinswin]

Sorry you don't have GOD awful passing years and still be in the running for player of the year...

I was speaking on the USC TEXAS game.... in terms of fluke. Texas beating USC was no fluke.. perhaps the fluke was an overated USC D.. if that is what you are talking about.

Vince youngs performance against the trojans will be considered one of the best performances in NCAA history.

I guess since you such an EXPERT on the NFL game.. then you don't have time to watch college, so i guess your right..

You prepared to put any sort of wager on Youngs success.. because I am.

Keep in mind. Young is 6-5 and 240.. vick is prob 6-2 if he is lucky and much smaller...

Your obviously not a young or texas fan.. i am not either, but i am smart enough to be objective about a player... and in this case a great college player, who has the POTENTIAL to to be a great pro.

You just sound stupid saying the word FLUKE in regards to his performance in the national championship. Sound like a little kid that lost to his brother in a game of madden or somthing.

Were here to talk about Young and what he can do for us on the Pro level. PRO!!!!!!!

It's not about being a "Young Fan" it's about reality. QB that can run better then they can pass have never, ever, EVER........WON A SB!

Why? Because in the back of their minds, they always think their legs can bail them out. And it doesn't work. We have seen all the great running QB's....Michael Vick....Randall Cunningham..and the list goes on to Steve Grogan..... etc.etc. The only QB to ever come into the league and learn how to pass but was a better runner was STeve Young. And Steve Young learned how to check down to the 3rd WR before he learned to scramble..not run..scramble. Big difference.

Vince Young is nothing but another Randall Cunningham and good defenses can easily take running QB's away just like The Tampa Bay Buccaneers destroy Michael Vick everytime they see him.

Yes Vince Young's performance will be considered one of the great college performances; just like Doug Flutie's performance against Miami was one of the greatest and is shown every year. So what does that have to do with the Pro-game??? Nothing. Flutie was an "okay" pro QB but once teams schemed for him, he was neutralized because of his height and lack of arm strength.

And you thinking that Young is going to be a great pro sounds stupid because history has shown us time after time that his type don't win jack. You sound like a little kid enamoured with a toy that we've all seen over and over again.

Grow up.

:eaglesuck

[Crazyhorse1]

Lies, Damn Lies and Stats-----I noticed you failed to note his TD-Int ratios.

2003......6 TD......7 Int.....78.6 NFL QB Rating

2004.....12 TD......11 Int...79.9 NFL QB Rating

2005.....26 TD......10 Int...109.2 NFL QB Rating

Now let's compare him to Jason Campbell

2002......149.23...........63.1............11 TD.........5 Int........99.6 NFL QB Rating

2003......132.57...........61.8............10 TD.........8 Int........85.8 NFL QB Rating

2004......172.89...........69.6............20 TD.........7 Int........115.6 NFL QB Rating

Looks like we did okay.

Lies, Damn Lies and Stats-----I noticed you failed to note his TD-Int ratios.

2003......6 TD......7 Int.....78.6 NFL QB Rating

2004.....12 TD......11 Int...79.9 NFL QB Rating

2005.....26 TD......10 Int...109.2 NFL QB Rating

Now let's compare him to Jason Campbell

2002......149.23...........63.1............11 TD.........5 Int........99.6 NFL QB Rating

2003......132.57...........61.8............10 TD.........8 Int........85.8 NFL QB Rating

2004......172.89...........69.6............20 TD.........7 Int........115.6 NFL QB Rating

Looks like we did okay.

A couple of factors to consider, especially in re to the senior years of both men.

It seems that Campbell, playing with two All-Americans in his backfield, had slightly better passing stats than Young in re to overall rating and percent completed and Young threw 6 more TD passes than Campbell.

As a passer then, it seems Campbell might have a very slight edge.

But, sorry about that, let's look at ToTaL Yardage:

Campbell 2004....passing.. 2700.......rushing.. 30..... Total..2730 yds

Young 2005.......passing.. 3036.......rushing..1070.... Total..4106 yds

According to my math, that's a 1,376 yd difference

The two are simply not comparable.

What further worries me about Campbell is that scouting reports show that he has difficulty driving the ball deep on long passes, and throwing on the move. He's also gigged for not making plays with his legs, inspite of his speed. He was expected to go in the second round because of deficiences and reports predicted he would need a couple of years of development before playing.

[Martini]

I wonder what expertise qualifies you to mock my suggestion as silly. I played major college football, was invited to camp by the Dallas Cowboys, coached football on the High School level, and have followed the Redskins for over fifty years. Do you have credentials equal or superior to mine? Perhaps you can explain to me why the suggestion is silly rather than just saying it is?

Also, in what way is my post redundant?

Is there something wrong with my starting two threads in seven hours?

I have absolutely no experience running a football team. It sounds as if you dont either.

This whole premise is "silly". There is no chance that the Redskins woud and little chance they could work a deal to get a draft pick high enough to take Young.

You have made some good points about Campbell, none I havnt heard before but nonetheless good points. The truth is the thought of this ranks right up there with bringing in Peyton Manning.

At this point I am sure you can concede that creating this thread not once but twice was poor decision.

If you have to ask if there is something wrong with starting the same thread twice in seven hours you clearly have not been paying much attention to the goings ons around here.

[skinswin]

A couple of factors to consider, especially in re to the senior years of both men.

It seems that Campbell, playing with two All-Americans in his backfield, had slightly better passing stats than Young in re to overall rating and percent completed and Young threw 6 more TD passes than Campbell.

As a passer then, it seems Campbell might have a very slight edge.

But, sorry about that, let's look at ToTaL Yardage:

Campbell 2004....passing.. 2700.......rushing.. 30..... Total..2730 yds

Young 2005.......passing.. 3036.......rushing..1070.... Total..4106 yds

According to my math, that's a 1,376 yd difference

The two are simply not comparable.

What further worries me about Campbell is that scouting reports show that he has difficulty driving the ball deep on long passes, and throwing on the move. He's also gigged for not making plays with his legs, inspite of his speed. He was expected to go in the second round because of deficiences and reports predicted he would need a couple of years of development before playing.

Well..you've got to know that Gibbs knew about Campbell's defeciancies and I"m sure that Gibbs has worked with him. But Gibbs said himself that Campbell is at the point where he needs to play to get better. So I'm looking forward to seeing where Campbell is in the pre-season. I think we all are.

But we are not going to go after a QB that throws 5 yard pass completions to get his completion percentage up (Young) but in reality really can't pass.

Thank god our FO isn't that stupid.

[Buck812]

Vince Young is as idiotic as this idea.....

Tell Vince...Not us and invite me to watch

[aqq]

Maybe we should trade this years picks, next years picks and Patten and get the first three picks in the draft to take Young, Leinart and Cutler. This way we can't make a mistake with those guys and Campbell. :sucks:

[pmo33]

Were here to talk about Young and what he can do for us on the Pro level. PRO!!!!!!!

It's not about being a "Young Fan" it's about reality. QB that can run better then they can pass have never, ever, EVER........WON A SB!

Why? Because in the back of their minds, they always think their legs can bail them out. And it doesn't work. We have seen all the great running QB's....Michael Vick....Randall Cunningham..and the list goes on to Steve Grogan..... etc.etc. The only QB to ever come into the league and learn how to pass but was a better runner was STeve Young. And Steve Young learned how to check down to the 3rd WR before he learned to scramble..not run..scramble. Big difference.

Vince Young is nothing but another Randall Cunningham and good defenses can easily take running QB's away just like The Tampa Bay Buccaneers destroy Michael Vick everytime they see him.

Yes Vince Young's performance will be considered one of the great college performances; just like Doug Flutie's performance against Miami was one of the greatest and is shown every year. So what does that have to do with the Pro-game??? Nothing. Flutie was an "okay" pro QB but once teams schemed for him, he was neutralized because of his height and lack of arm strength.

And you thinking that Young is going to be a great pro sounds stupid because history has shown us time after time that his type don't win jack. You sound like a little kid enamoured with a toy that we've all seen over and over again.

Grow up.

:eaglesuck

How else are you supposed to judge their chances of success in the NFL?

oh by that stupid combine test and because the media has a problem with his throwing motion. man you are prob one of those guys that just repeats what he hears on ESPN, which is fine....

And to be honest young looks to pass first,, he is not a vick...

I would say that Young is much more similar to Mcnabb than vick... and I don't think i need to tell you how great Mcnabb has been... with the exception of this year.. with TO and injuries... and I am a true philly hater and respect mcnabb....

Also just a point, but last year many would have considered Alex smith a run first QB.. .also Jake Plummer.. both ran all the time in college, and that is the difference in the college game... these guys adjust to the league, having wheels is a great tool to have at your disposal and opens things up all over the field....

VICK and Young are two different players.. just check vicks throwing stats in college... not even in youngs league.

Also all of these option qbs that you talk about being so bad... havn't had much around them to be honest...and also havn't done that bad

Cunningham. by himself on that team

Mcnabb- super bowl loss

Vick- awful team, no recievers, pro bowl

Steve young HOF

Jake Plummer-AFC championship loss

Ben Rothlesburger- Super bowl

For every crappy option Qb you speak of.. there are awful pocket passers as well...

[skinswin]

How else are you supposed to judge their chances of success in the NFL?

oh by that stupid combine test and because the media has a problem with his throwing motion. man you are prob one of those guys that just repeats what he hears on ESPN, which is fine....

And to be honest young looks to pass first,, he is not a vick...

I would say that Young is much more similar to Mcnabb than vick... and I don't think i need to tell you how great Mcnabb has been... with the exception of this year.. with TO and injuries... and I am a true philly hater and respect mcnabb....

Also just a point, but last year many would have considered Alex smith a run first QB.. .also Jake Plummer.. both ran all the time in college, and that is the difference in the college game... these guys adjust to the league, having wheels is a great tool to have at your disposal and opens things up all over the field....

VICK and Young are two different players.. just check vicks throwing stats in college... not even in youngs league.

Also all of these option qbs that you talk about being so bad... havn't had much around them to be honest...and also havn't done that bad

Cunningham. by himself on that team

Mcnabb- super bowl loss

Vick- awful team, no recievers, pro bowl

Steve young HOF

Jake Plummer-AFC championship loss

Ben Rothlesburger- Super bowl

For every crappy option Qb you speak of.. there are awful pocket passers as well...

Of course because there are 5 pocket passers to every one running QB so using mathmatics, there has to be more pocket passers that are awful. Still, in 40 SB not one QB that runs better then he passes has won a SB. There is a reason for that.

Cunningham was not by himself. He had Reggie White, Clyde Simmons, Andre Waters, Keith Byers. He had plenty of help. But he couldn't get the job done because when he faced a defense that was ready for his legs, his arm couldn't bail him out. Same old scenerio for the QB that runs first, passes second.

Jake Plummer is another bum. His team is loaded too. But he can't pass and when forced to pass (like in the AFC Championship game) he couldn't get the job done and threw interceptions. Same old scenerio for the QB that runs first, passes second.

And Ben Rothlinsberger isn't a QB that runs first. He is a passer. So please don't try using him as an example.

QB'S THAT INSTINT IS TO RUN FIRST, PASS SECOND HAVE NEVER, EVER WON A SB. There is a reason for that.

[Inxsive]

He would have done the same thing to any other D, period.

Also show some stats to back up your claims of his compititon level. i am interested to see...

also remember... the speed of a NFL O line is much fast than college, as are recievers much better, also running backs, and coaches....

unlike other option qbs.. vince young looked to pass first and run if he needed to. And if you actually watched these games you would see that most teams were playing him to stop the run, which obviously is his best weapon.. but he still torched them through the air...

By the way

Ohio State had probably the best D in the Country.

Well, I have been deployed in Houston, TX the entire season so I actually got to see most of the games. My point with the difference in dealing with him in the pro's is that in college, most of the time teams had to bring as many as 8 men in the box because their linebackers didn't have the speed to keep up with him leaving single coverage. Teams won't have to do this in the NFL, the linebackers will be quick enough without needing the safety help. I was wrong on one part though, I did miss Texas Tech who was ranked 15th. As for Ohio state, they had the 5th best D in the country but were 43rd against the pass. Remember, even thought they won the game against Ohio State, he did have as many turnovers as TD's.

Here is a good link for NCAA stats;

http://web1.ncaa.org/d1mfb/natlRank.jsp?year=2005&div=4&rpt=IA_teampassdef&site=org

[Crazyhorse1]

I have absolutely no experience running a football team. It sounds as if you dont either.

This whole premise is "silly". There is no chance that the Redskins woud and little chance they could work a deal to get a draft pick high enough to take Young.

You have made some good points about Campbell, none I havnt heard before but nonetheless good points. The truth is the thought of this ranks right up there with bringing in Peyton Manning.

At this point I am sure you can concede that creating this thread not once but twice was poor decision.

If you have to ask if there is something wrong with starting the same thread twice in seven hours you clearly have not been paying much attention to the goings ons around here.

I am honestly unaware of what you are talking about when you say I started the same thread twice in seven hours. Maybe there's something that I don't know?

[HateYanksDukeCowboys]

wth is wrong with you? You create a second thread so even more people can call you stupid?

you may disagree with his thoughts, but your tone in calling him stupid is uncalled for IMO. instead of uniformily bashing his thoughts, i'd like to break it down based on his points:

1. His opinion of Vince Young is correct. the man is going to be an absolute star. the pre-draft tests are a proven fallacy (see tony mandarich). V.Y. is one of the greatest athletes i have ever seen on any football field.

2. His trade proposal is unrealistic. it would/could never happen.

3. You cant blame the guy for trying to concoct a scenario to obtain a player he really likes.

4. His point of Campbell working out well reminds me of something that just happened in San Diego....

[sean_e_b]

No, I'm not...well, yeah, maybe, I am, but...insane. Still, let's package our top picks, throw in Patten, and trade high enough up to draft Vince Young.

Here's my worry: Brunell will soon be a casualty and Campbell is just another guy who can or cannot play in the NFL, depending on conditions. Frankly, he's untested.

Here's my conviction: Vince Young is going to one of the top super stars in football, the very guy Michael Vick was supposed to be. I don't really care how he throws the football.

Yeah, yeah. I know what you're going to say. Well, what about Campbell?

My answer: If Campbell beats out Young, so much the better. We can then trade Young for a top DE and CB. But I'm willing to bet that's not going to happen, not even the first year. Young would be out there before the first year ends, then in the SB the second.

Young's a Big Ben, but better.

Yeah you are insane. This guy will only live up to being another Aaron Brooks. Michael Vick is just as bad, but at least he can run better than Young. Young will drop in the draft for a reason and I wouldn't want us to draft Young even if he dropped to the 7th round.

[skinswin]

Give me an example of an NFL player that Vince Young is going to be equal to as far as being a "STAR" ?

[BleedBNG]

In seriousness if we could give up Campbell and all of our draft picks this year plus a player or two to be able to take Young I'd do it.

OK, hand in your sig.

(just kidding)

But why would we keep Young and Campbell?

If one doesn't work out, we could trade the other for needed positions somewhere down the line. Something like that.

:deal:

I think Vince could be a good QB in the NFL. But to be honest, I'm getting tired of the QB merry-go-round. We have Jason now. I have confidence in Jason and I don't give a rats petunia about stats or what any scout says. Sometimes in the NFL you just have to go with your gut instincts on the individual until something happens to tell you otherwise. And for right now, I opt to forego the "Sorry Jason, but we have to play around with this for awhile" scenario.

[kramdizzle]

you are kidding right? comparing him to vick is not a good thing. he's slower so there is no way that he is getting past linebackers like washington. besides all you have to do is put a spy on him and that renders him useless on the run. if usc had done that instead of rushing at him USC would have been national champions. look what the eagles did to vick in the nfc championship. they shut vick down b/c he cant throw and they double qb spied him. so lets not bring up dumb topics like that anymore....

[brandies]

yes, we can probably get him for one of our 7th rounders

[No_Pressure]

No, I'm not...well, yeah, maybe, I am, but...insane. Still, let's package our top picks, throw in Patten, and trade high enough up to draft Vince Young.

Here's my worry: Brunell will soon be a casualty and Campbell is just another guy who can or cannot play in the NFL, depending on conditions. Frankly, he's untested.

Here's my conviction: Vince Young is going to one of the top super stars in football, the very guy Michael Vick was supposed to be. I don't really care how he throws the football.

Yeah, yeah. I know what you're going to say. Well, what about Campbell?

My answer: If Campbell beats out Young, so much the better. We can then trade Young for a top DE and CB. But I'm willing to bet that's not going to happen, not even the first year. Young would be out there before the first year ends, then in the SB the second.

Young's a Big Ben, but better.

This is the Redskins draft history:

http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/WAS

Look for the Gibbs era and tell me how often he had a 1st round pick, or even better what calibre of a player he got for them...Furthermore, outside of Jason Campbell, what QB's has Gibbs ever drafted in the 1st round? If anything this gives me greater confidence in the guy picking Campbell, etc. I mean look at the names he has gotten. Darrell Green, Mark May, Sean Taylor, Carlos Rogers, and soon to prove himself a good player, Jason Campbell.

Bobby Wilson in the 1991 NFL draft stumps me though. But that other batting average is rediculous. Trust every personnell move Gibbs makes, he knows what he's doing.

[BleedBNG]

he's slower so there is no way that he is getting past linebackers like washington. besides all you have to do is put a spy on him and that renders him useless on the run. if usc had done that instead of rushing at him USC would have been national champions.

I'll say. It was like they were clearing paths for him. Which I'm glad they did 'cause I was rootin' for him (I love upsets).

[skinsrule88]

this is a dumb thing to even think about besides young is problyu going to either the texans,or the lions and jason campbell cna become a superstar, i mean come on u should kno that joe gibbs has taken 4 different quartebacks to a superbowl win nd they werent superstars in college, ur 63 yrs old y would u even think up something that even i a 17 yr old would not even think about posting , u should kno bettor , Gibbs can make campbell a superstar

[skinsrule88]

I think jason campbell will make a great QB for the skins

[tsunami001]

Put down the bottle...please!

Campbell is untested? yet young isn't? seriously come on now.....

[Quixote]

I hear San fran has a fetus of a steve young clone set up as a late entry for the draft.... lets trade all of our 37 6th round picks for him :laugh:

[Slacky McSlackAss]

Let's not.

[rashee111495]

Thats the dumbest bunch of crap i have ever heard in my life. What kind of a moron are you to say ridiculous things like that. It is truly beyound words.