OT - Canadian Poll - surprising to say the least

[Awgustlab]

According to FoxNews today:

Canadians who believe that U.S. is partly responsible for 9/11 attacks on WTC and Pentagon:

69%

Canadians who believe that U.S. is solely responsible for 9/11 attacks on WTC and Pentagon:

15%

Ummmmm.........these numbers do not make me feel too good towards our neighbors to the North. Now I am just pointing out a poll, but it is quite surprising to me.

[NavyDave]

Well after hearing the top guy from Canada voice similar opinions....:cuss:

Where is that blame Canada song when you need it?:doh:

[MikeB]

I work for a Canadian company and Canada in general has an inferiority complex when it comes to the United States.

There is a feeling we are arrogant, fickle and overly-confident. It would not surprise me that if there where some sentiment that we brought this on ourselves.

These feelings are not apparent in general conversation. If you get the chance to observe a politcal conversation, especially over ****tails, it becomes apparent rather quickly. I've unfortunately seen it many times.

[redman]

And people are citing their opposition to our plan with Iraq as reason for questioning our plan?

[Riggo-toni]

The second stat is actually more disturbing to me than the first. How does one define partially responsible? It's a pretty ambiguous question. Does it mean partly responsible in carrying out the attacks. I don't think that's what the 69% thought when they responded; rather a majority of Canooks think that US foreign policy (ie aid to Israel and Egypt) may have made them an enticing target for the wacko terrorists. (No group attacks neutral countries like Switzerland or Finland, for example.) I am not saying this to criticize our policies in the Mideast. I am simply pointing out how an outsider could view our policies as as being partly responsible for the reaction these scumbags had.

As for solely responsible, that means by definition it was purely a US action against our own people. I thought only a few whacked out jealous ungrateful American-hating French and a lot of uneducated propaganda-fed Arabs were buying that stupid conspiracy. But wait, isn't about 20% of Canada filled with those French-wannabe Quebecois? So maybe that 15% is just around 75% of that 20% trying to follow the example of their European kin... :gus: :gus:

[Atlanta Skins Fan]

The second poll is silly -- obviously the U.S. is not "solely" responsible.

The first poll is to me obviously true. U.S. policies indeed aroused the Muslim/Arab antagonism that resulted in the attacks. But "partially responsible" is a vague term, with a blurred line between moral culpability and simple causation. A police officer who shoots a criminal brandishing a gun is "responsible" for the criminal's deaths, but that's a statement of causation, not moral blame.

A more interesting poll would be to ask if the terrorists were justified in their attacks. That would focus on moral culpability, not causation.

[Awgustlab]

Originally posted by Atlanta Skins Fan

A more interesting poll would be to ask if the terrorists were justified in their attacks. That would focus on moral culpability, not causation.

Agreed with above. Now I did not write the poll text word for word as I saw it on TV but it is pretty close to what I saw. As far as the poll in general insinuating that the U.S. is solely or partially responsible for bringing the attacks on its own poeple, I think that the poll actually referred to the question of whether it is the U.S.'s fault that the attacks were brought on by the U.S.and our governemt policies and our people, way of life, etc. etc. etc.

[Storm]

partially responsible is kind of vague.

The fact that more than sixty percent think there is partial responsibility is probably because they feel US policy in the ME (ie Israel, Palestine..) has stirred up the hate needed for people to scheme and send terrorrists here.

Otherwise Ive found Canadians to be relatively benign and fair people (except for the Quebec people of course).

I have no idea what the "totally responsible" 15% were thinking.

[Romo]

I heard about this poll as well, as I am Canadian. Before anything else is said it should be pointed out that statistics are pretty easy to manipulate, 87% of people know that (bad joke i know).

Navy Dave, Our Prime Minister is a dumbass. No one cares what he says. He is an ego-maniac who will say anything as long as he thinks it will get him votes. He dosnt have the guts like Tony Blair to stand up for anything. He will be out of there in a year or so. But dont worry our Deputy Prime Minister (equal to VP) and minister of finance is very pro-American and he has been the point man since day one regarding the terrorist threat.

Mike B what company do you work for? You are right though alot of Canadians do have an inferiority complex to America.

I dont know the exact statistic but 20% does seem close to the amount of French Canadians.

It would really depend on where this poll was taken as each part of Canada is very different. If it were taken in Toronto for example I could see the anti-americanism being higher because of the higher immigration population. Quebec would be higher too because they hate everyone.

15% seems incredibly high for people who think America is solely responsible. The question must have been worded strangly. As a Canadian I apologize for the crazy/stupid 15% of us.

[OrangeSkin]

We should just invade Canada and take over all the unused natural resources. Or if we wanted to be humane about it, we could buy it for 5 cents an acre, kind of like the Louisiana Purchase.

I have no problem with cool Canadians, and there are certainly a lot of them. I mean, where would the NHL be without it?

But seriously, when was the last time the US gave a damn what Canada thought? For a country so big, you'd think they'd be a bit more influential than Finland.

[Fitz]

Those results don't surprise me too much. You can probably find nearly as many Americans who would think the same way. Unfortunately, loony conspiracy theories don't lack for advocates these days.

I remember listening to a CBC radio program on NPR a few days after the 9/11 atrocities, it may have been a special edition of "As it Happens", I'm not sure. Anyway, it was a town-meeting type of forum from Toronto, and they were discussing the attacks on the WTC and the Pentagon. I was astounded at how much vitriol there was against the States. One young woman was particularly strident, screaming about how Canada must not let the US drag them into a war "now that they've gotten themselves into this mess." Most of the respondents began their diatribes with "Of course, I don't condone these terrorist attacks, BUT..." and went on to basically state the US was asking for it. Only one guy from Newfoundland got up and said "you're the kind of people that blame the woman for getting raped", which elicited a lot of boos and outrage from the crowd. He went on to say "don't worry about getting into a war, we'll sit on the sidelines like always," and the crowd shouted him down. I remember it very vividly, because to tell you the truth, I was pretty pi$$ed by the time it was over.

[Yomar]

Its not just Canada, as has been well documented. We all know about the French bestseller about how it was a conspiracy to further our own agenda, whatever that is, world domination no doubt. It’s all over the globe.

We are brash and arrogant and loud and rich and we have an attitude of entitlement as a country. But do not doubt that we are also honorable and just. Power is not an easy thing to wield, it is a burden as much as it is a privilege, it’s much easier to sit on the sidelines and criticize, all the while sucking at the teat of capitalism and democracy.

That being said, while we have lead the way on the War on Terrorism, we have not gone it alone. Canadian soldiers lost their lives from our friendly fire in Afghanistan. There was a tremendous outpouring of support right after 9/11 all over the globe. And we have been granted access to intelligence by many countries as they seek to cooperate with us.

Power is a burden, and part of that burden is intense scrutiny and critcism and mistrust. But that ain't nothin' but a chicken wing on a string, we're better than that.

[Die Hard]

Great post Yomar. It's good to see *some* people get it

OrangeSkin - You're post was completely ignorant and I lost a little respect for you.

Canada is very widely respected among the world community. We are humanitarians. We're peace keepers. We have an open-door policy regarding immigrants. We live in a socialistic society with good health care, social security and one of the highest standards of living in the world. We're a laidback and tolerant people who mind their own business.

And Canadians don't necessarily feel like we have to jump every time the US decides to.

Now I don't really have a problem with the US... b/c all things considered... you'll probably go down in history as the most benevolent super power of all time.

But if you think for a second that America is completely innocent in the whole grand scheme of things here and that this attack was completely unprovoked... then you would be an uneducated fool.

America is at war. You've been at war with Middle East for a very long time. The problem is you're not fighting a traditional war by which Americans aren't accustomed to. No country can stand up to the US in a conventional war... so they're fighting back by the only means they can.

Now I can't justify the 15% who believe the US is solely responsible... the results of any poll can be skewed very easily.. especially in this instance. There's a huge population of immigrants in Canada.... many of whom come from countries which harbor resentment towards the states.

But the fact remains... about 15% of any number of people are complete idiots with uneducated or biased opinions.

[Ryman of the North]

i love the us you guys give us football and porno and books about war!!! but..the 9-11 incident was precipitated by us foreign policies over the last couple of decades, check into the us telling the world court to stick it back in the 80,s after being convicted of terrorism and ordered to pay reparations to nicaragua!yomar makes a good point tho how power is always twinned with hate whoeber is powerful is hated.

i would say the us is partially responsable but again i am very anti terrorist and am one of the few canadians who support israel and the us policies in the Me.

[luckydevil]

What do you except from the far left. We all know France is the most liberal country in the world

[Ford]

I completely agree with DieHard and Yomar.

I have several Canadian friends and though I often disagree with them on subjects, I respect their opinions and don't think they're that far from how much of the world feels.

I love America but we're annoying and I'm sure we rub alot of people the wrong way. Obviously the terrorists' actions weren't warranted or just, but to say we had zero responsibility is absurd.

And if 15% said we were solely responsible, so what? One in almost seven people. They're ignorant, but look around you and try and tell me a huge portion of our country isn't as well.

I mean what do you really expect these polls to say? The Americans that the rest of the world sees live in excess, and are arrogant, superficial, annoying people. The rest of the world also sees the homeless, and hears about how our welfare system is abused and all of that. They don't see the inbetween and the average joe. We get in other peoples business, we try to play mediator and we go where we are unwelcome. Whether you agree with that or not is not the point, we're gonna piss people off. Those numbers really aren't that shocking.

[Blondie]

Polls would not be conducted if varying opinions was not expected. Polls that reflect 100% agreement do not often happen. What is the validity of this poll......who were the participants...what ages....many ways to scew this.

AMERICA is a powerful nation. Our policies oin foreign matters have caused controversy within this nation. Why would we think they would not be controversial in other countries?

I feel blessed to live in the United States. I don't always agree with its policies, but that is the way of family. We can fight among ourselves, but DON'T let anyone bother anyone of us.

And I am especially blessed to be a native Texan. Now, I bet that statement could cause controversy!!

Blondie

[Tommy-the-Greek]

I am not surprised by this poll nor am I concerned. Canada has been a loyal ally of the US. and Nato. There will always be a measureable percentage of people in every country, even our own who will believe we are responsible for 9/11. These people believe that the US. foriegn policy in the middle east since WW2 is conducive to ill will wished upon us.

Many of these people believe that US. foriegn policy in that region has been hypocritical. We supported a dictator in Iran,and we still support the royal family in Saudi Arabia when we espouse democracy everywhere else. That we overlook democracy as long as we control the oil. They also hate us for supporting Isreal.

Sometimes I wonder what the middle east would look like today if we never helped establish the state of Isreal. If all the Jews in Isreal were dispersed thruout Europe,Russia and the US after WW2. Does anyone really think the plight of the poor arab in downtown Damascus would be any better?

[Sarge]

I've never put much credence in polls. Especially after clinton. But I've drank a lot of beer with Canucks and have found them to be very cool for the most part. An example was when I was "invited" aboard a Candian destroyer. But that is another story. Anyway, we probably have more than 15% of idiots in this country that think we are arrogant and imperialistic and brought 9/11 on ourselves as well, so why worry about a poll?

[mardi gras skin]

Canadians who believe that U.S. is partly responsible for 9/11 attacks on WTC and Pentagon:

69%

Most of you seem to have let this one slide, but I find it unacceptable. Its like saying that a woman is partly responsible for being raped because she was wearing provocative clothing or that a similar terrorist act on Canada would be partly their fault because they are allies to America. This way of thinking is highly inflammatory to me. I don’t really care how naive you may think the statement is, America is not responsible for September 11. Not at all. And it sucks that anyone would imply that we are.

[DallasGatr]

Fitzman-I was in Canada at the time and I saw the same show as you. It seemes as though the hall was packed with extreme leftists, (not unlike one of Clintons old town hall meetings). Must have bussed them in from Qubec. I would'nt be too troubled by what you saw that night, Canadians as a whole are very pro-U.S.

BTW-That Newfoundler you speak of really gave it to the crowd. he had a pair!

[Brave]

FordHQ

Obviously the terrorists' actions weren't warranted or just, but to say we had zero responsibility is absurd.

Sorry, but I just don't buy this line of reasoning.

You might not agree with a country's lifestyle, policies, etc. but you don't have to go flying planes into buildings and killing thousands of innocents. I'm not blindly loyal ... can actually be quite cynical towards the government at times, but I WOULD say that we had zero responsibility for the terrorists' actions on 9/11.

[OrangeSkin]

Originally posted by Die Hard

OrangeSkin - You're post was completely ignorant and I lost a little respect for you.

My apoligies, Die Hard...I didn't mean to slam Canada too bad. I actually like our northern neighbors...they're peaceful and have some nice scenery. My brother lives in Hornell NY, a couple of hours from Niagra Falls. I often find myself going up there.

I have a tendency to say things on the spur of the moment and sound like a jackass.

[Fitz]

I would'nt be too troubled by what you saw that night

Oh, I wasn't really concerned, Dallas. It was easy to see that the speakers at the event were mainly people who had been harboring their sentiments for a long time and saw an opportunity to rail against the US. But at the time, we were still bleeding from the open wound, and it seemed that these people couldn't wait to pour salt into it. It was a little infuriating in that context.

Of course, a much more telling response could be seen in Gander, Newfoundland, when the locals opened their homes to thousands of air passengers that were stranded when US air space was closed. There's a website where the passengers express their gratitude at http://www.thankstogander.de/ . Makes for nice reading.

[OrangeSkin]

Yo, Fitz...I like your sig, except Spurrier looks kind of retarded. Take a good long look at it.