The Defensive Line

[RIDETHEWALRUS]

I know there seems to be a consensus on this board that we are desperately in need of a DE. I question this logic. The question I pose today is wether or not DE or DT is a vital a need as it is often made out to be. I feel that with the young talent we have backing up our starters we are okay at these positions.

The Starters

Phillip Daniels had 8 sacks this season, and appears to improve every game. he is also a talented run stuffer minus a couple blown plays.

Joe Salave'a is very tough in the middle though he doesn't get to the QB that often.

Cornelius Griffin is one of the best DTs in the game, he recorded 4 sacks this year and 6 last year.

Renaldo Wynn is superior against the run but only recorded half a sack.

The Reserves

Demetric Evans recorded 3 sacks this year coming off the bench. He appears to be very solid against the run and has a quick first step. I feel that he would excell if given more reps.

Nic Clemons didn't do much of anything this year, but he is a physical anomaly. At 6'6" 300 lbs he moves remarkably well. Gregg Williams is very high on his potential and if he learns the nuances of the DE position he may end up being a very good player.

Ryan Boschetti also did little this year statistic-wise. Yet he too has tremendous physical ability. He is listed as a DT, but has good enough speed to be an edge rusher.

I believe that given our other needs, WR, backup O-line, and possibly LB (depending on how the LA situation works out), D-line is not imperative. The likelihood of aquiring a difference maker late in the second round at DE is not high. If we rotate bodies in and out on the line effectively we should be able to sustain a solid pass rush next year. While we only had 35 sacks as a team last year, we were still in the top half of the league in sack yards.

What do yall think. Can we survive and excell with what we have now?

[Oldskool]

Elite QB's like Manning will eat us up without a pass rusher.

Even upper eschelon QB's like McNabb can scarmble and create plays due to our ends not being athletic enough.

Against average QB's, our secondary is strong enough to create "coverage sacks" (god how i dispise that term), but there are teams that have and wille at us alive due to the lack of pressure we place on the QB.

[moondog]

Of course. As the season went on i adopted this concept as well. If daniels can continue to put that kind of pressure on the qb alongside griffin and salave'a and the tremendous run stopping that they possess, not to mention their ability to at least pressure the qb and knock the ball down (i believe we were #1 in the league in that stat this year) we are fine.

One change though: as much as i respect wynn and he is a great talent against the run, he is ageing and i honestly think demetric evans is a better ballplayer now anyway. He can get the qb as well as any of our front 4 and is very quick as well as a good run stopper.

I do not think our d-line is near the concern it was towards the beginning of last year and that a #2 receiver is a bigger concern right now. HOWEVER, if we have any shot at getting a big-time free agent DE like abraham then thats a no-brainer!!! You just dont pass up on a guy like that when your d-line is a little in question (no one reached double-digit sacks, daniels doubled his sack total in the last few games and didnt do much at the beginning of the year, and the next highest total on the line was 4).

I'd say go after both DE and WR in free agency and decide which you have a better chance at getting a great ball player, but don't waste time early in the draft looking for a D-lineman.

[TheNewU]

we need to pressure th QB more, just deflecting passes wont do, have to make them scared

[Lil Kenzo]

I tink that the WR position is a biger concern right now then the D-line. They really came together towards the end of the season. Plus some were injured thorughout the season. Next year, the D-line will be better without a doubt.

[Larry Gude]

Walrus,

What do yall think. Can we survive and excell with what we have now?

Can we? Absolutely. The key, as in all things football, is health. When Joe and Cornelius are healthy, man, we're solid and I think your analysis on the rest of the guys is accurate; no super stars but getting the job done, playing the defense as Williams intends.

Super star ends from Kearse to Bruce Smith to Simeon Rice can all be dealt with and neutralized for a game with one exception; Reggie White, so, your point is valid. We don't HAVE to have some major upgrade.

What would be really nice is to get a solid widebody to spell Cornelius and Joe in the middle.

To me, the D line is not at the top of the list of concerns.

[zallera]

You bring up a great point about needing to rotate D-linemen. The problem is we don't have enough of them to rotate through. Just look at how much stronger our defense was with all of our d-line starters healthy. A young stud DE would help our depth so much. We also need a capable DT to back up Griffin and Salave'a now that Noble looks to be done for good.

[moondog]

the key is to be able to find a few "steals" in the late rounds of the draft, especially on the lines, both defense and offense. I just can't remember many, if any of these that we've had in quite a long time...with the exception of salave'a---ha to be honest i dont really remember where we picked him up but thank God we did...he is a BEAST.

[painfulyetloyal]

Elite QB's like Manning will eat us up without a pass rusher.

Even upper eschelon QB's like McNabb can scarmble and create plays due to our ends not being athletic enough.

Against average QB's, our secondary is strong enough to create "coverage sacks" (god how i dispise that term), but there are teams that have and wille at us alive due to the lack of pressure we place on the QB.

What the people who cry about our d-line dont seem to understand is that Greg Williams uses his d-line primarily for containing the run. He's not nearly concerned about DT's or DE's picking up sacks like you guys are. You have to understand what his scheme is all about, which is camoflauging the blitzes. His scheme calls for more linebackers and d-backs blitzing than anything. And if Im not mistaking, our defense was pretty damn good this year. We clearly have other needs before we address our d-line.

[moondog]

agreed painfulyetloyal, but wouldn't it be nice/beneficiary to ANY defense (good or bad) that had a great pass rusher that could consistently put a lot of pressure on the qb even when not expected??? That is probably more of the concern (at least in most peoples' views) and possibly what keeps our defense from being great.

If Williams didnt always have to blitz so many guys and leave db's in single coverage alone because his front 4 could create pressure by itself, our defense would be that much better and harder to move the ball against. The difference between the #9 defense and #1.

[JPM285181]

What the people who cry about our d-line dont seem to understand is that Greg Williams uses his d-line primarily for containing the run. He's not nearly concerned about DT's or DE's picking up sacks like you guys are. You have to understand what his scheme is all about, which is camoflauging the blitzes. His scheme calls for more linebackers and d-backs blitzing than anything. And if Im not mistaking, our defense was pretty damn good this year. We clearly have other needs before we address our d-line.

I agree that we have more pressing needs than d-line but many of G Williams schemes are to create pressure on QB's from the backers because we are not getting it up front. Our LB's are very solid and if we could get a stud D-Lineman who forces double coverages and a lot of pressure up front our existing d line and LB's would go ballistic on QB's

[chaz13]

What I think people are underestimating is the importance of having d-lineman that command a double team. Only Griffin commands a double team. Yes some of the great passrushers can be neutralized but it usually takes 2 people or even 3 to do it. This is what makes blitzes effective. If you noticed when Griff was out our blitzes didn't work very well, because the offense has enough guys to pick up the blitz. If we were to have a DE to pair with Griff we then have 2 guys that would command a double team. This will force offenses to either have to single team good pass rushers which would give us an advantage, or double team them giving us better opportunities to get our LB's, and secondary players running free at the Qb. It will be pick your poison for the offenses. This is what will take us from being very good to championship level.

[NVskinsfan]

we need to pressure th QB more, just deflecting passes wont do, have to make them scared

RIGHT!!.... WE NEED TO HAVE A LEGITAMATE PASS RUSHER.

[painfulyetloyal]

agreed painfulyetloyal, but wouldn't it be nice/beneficiary to ANY defense (good or bad) that had a great pass rusher that could consistently put a lot of pressure on the qb even when not expected??? That is probably more of the concern (at least in most peoples' views) and possibly what keeps our defense from being great.

If Williams didnt always have to blitz so many guys and leave db's in single coverage alone because his front 4 could create pressure by itself, our defense would be that much better and harder to move the ball against. The difference between the #9 defense and #1.

No question, Id love to have a dominant pass rusher. I just think we have other needs. Even if we had a dominant pass rusher GW's defensive scheme wouldnt change all that much, he'd still blitze linebackers and db's. I think next year we try to improve on the d-line, this year we have other, more pressing needs. But I do agree with you.

[moondog]

very well said chaz13, exactly the point this thread is trying to prove/make :applause: :2cents:

although it would only take the defense to championship level, if it's not there already...we could still use at least one more receiver on the offensive side or maybe switch some players at a different position......but you didnt hear that from me...... :shhh:

[painfulyetloyal]

I agree that we have more pressing needs than d-line but many of G Williams schemes are to create pressure on QB's from the backers because we are not getting it up front. Our LB's are very solid and if we could get a stud D-Lineman who forces double coverages and a lot of pressure up front our existing d line and LB's would go ballistic on QB's

Again, agreed, 100%. How fun would it be to watch our defense with the addition of a monster pass rusher? I have dreams about that, lol. But like I said, maybe next year we can look for someone like that. Right now it is my opinion that we have other, more important spots to fill.

[kingfish50]

Our needs in this order (IMHO)

#1 Wide Reciever

#2 Off. Guard/tackle

#3 Tight End

#4 Def. end

#5 Cornerback

#6 Veteren FA QB

#7 Def. tackle

Need a good wide rec. to compliment Moss and take the coverage away. Our depth on the off. line needs upgrading. Get a big blocking TE which adds depth to the Off. line.chaz13 makes a valid point about the need for a Def. end. Opens up the defence more. Need a solid pick for cornerback. Springs getting old so mold and shape him now before the need arises. Ramseys gone so you need a veteran QB. Should be able to pick one up fairly cheap from the FA market. Solidify the Def line with a good draft pick. With our Starting DL and backups,should be plenty of time to coach a long term prospect.

[dfbovey]

Our needs IMO go a little more like this...

1a- Big target WR with sure hands.

1b- Youth at defensive end.

2- Depth on the OL.

3- Punter (and a healthy John Hall)

4- TE

5- Depth at CB

Depending on Lavar's situation, OLB will climb up the list.

[Oldskool]

What the people who cry about our d-line dont seem to understand is that Greg Williams uses his d-line primarily for containing the run. He's not nearly concerned about DT's or DE's picking up sacks like you guys are. You have to understand what his scheme is all about, which is camoflauging the blitzes. His scheme calls for more linebackers and d-backs blitzing than anything. And if Im not mistaking, our defense was pretty damn good this year. We clearly have other needs before we address our d-line.

Incorrect. If you happened to have followed GW around the league when he was the DC in Tenn and the HC in Buff, you will know that he always had DE's that could bring pressure on the QB and that he brought the scheming and the blitzing to overload a side and to make getting to the qb easier. NEVER did he have to blitz like he has had to in Washington.

For those of us that know that his scheme is based on blitzing 60+% of the time here is not because he wants to but because he has to, in order to apply pressure.

D line has been our greatest pressing need for a while, and we have done great with a bandaged D line. Now with (sadly) Noble's career just about over, the injury to Wynn, Evans a UFA, Daniels getting older and very little depth at any spot on the line, only vet #2 WR is a greater need right now.

[moondog]

agreed completely oldskool. We need a d-lineman, specifically an end, that can just flat-out get to the qb and blow-up the backfield...easier said than done but thats how it is. While the receiver thing is obviously a bigger need due to our overall incredible defense and #1 round draft pick jason campbell, it's not that much higher up on the list.

Also, kingfish, do you really believe we need an o-lineman, when all the starters on that unit are already there and solid, more than perhaps a tight end or d-end. Of course we need a few good backups but imo its not that high up.

[PF Chang]

Daniels may have had 8 sacks, but didn't four of those sacks come against Dallas in the rout, when they were playing Len Pasquarelli at LT? As fans, we knew we weren't getting to the QB when we rushed 4. Most will tell you that the game is won in the trenches, and I think that we're missing out on having the best defense in the league due to our mediocre pass rush. That being said, I don't have a clue how to solve it.

[iceman330]

I know there seems to be a consensus on this board that we are desperately in need of a DE. I question this logic. The question I pose today is wether or not DE or DT is a vital a need as it is often made out to be. I feel that with the young talent we have backing up our starters we are okay at these positions.

The Starters

Phillip Daniels had 8 sacks this season, and appears to improve every game. he is also a talented run stuffer minus a couple blown plays.

Joe Salave'a is very tough in the middle though he doesn't get to the QB that often.

Cornelius Griffin is one of the best DTs in the game, he recorded 4 sacks this year and 6 last year.

Renaldo Wynn is superior against the run but only recorded half a sack.

The Reserves

Demetric Evans recorded 3 sacks this year coming off the bench. He appears to be very solid against the run and has a quick first step. I feel that he would excell if given more reps.

Nic Clemons didn't do much of anything this year, but he is a physical anomaly. At 6'6" 300 lbs he moves remarkably well. Gregg Williams is very high on his potential and if he learns the nuances of the DE position he may end up being a very good player.

Ryan Boschetti also did little this year statistic-wise. Yet he too has tremendous physical ability. He is listed as a DT, but has good enough speed to be an edge rusher.

I believe that given our other needs, WR, backup O-line, and possibly LB (depending on how the LA situation works out), D-line is not imperative. The likelihood of aquiring a difference maker late in the second round at DE is not high. If we rotate bodies in and out on the line effectively we should be able to sustain a solid pass rush next year. While we only had 35 sacks as a team last year, we were still in the top half of the league in sack yards.

What do yall think. Can we survive and excell with what we have now?

We may not need a DE specifically but we definately need a DL. We need to be able to get pressure w/o a blitz. Therefore, we need 2 DLs that require extra attention from the offense.

We have Griffin, so we need one more. If the best guy available is a DT then we still ok b/c we can collapse the pocket from the inside. Whether a DT or DE we need one more guy who can dominate up front.

[shallyshal]

I know there seems to be a consensus on this board that we are desperately in need of a DE. I question this logic. The question I pose today is wether or not DE or DT is a vital a need as it is often made out to be. I feel that with the young talent we have backing up our starters we are okay at these positions.

The Starters

Phillip Daniels had 8 sacks this season, and appears to improve every game. he is also a talented run stuffer minus a couple blown plays.

Joe Salave'a is very tough in the middle though he doesn't get to the QB that often.

Cornelius Griffin is one of the best DTs in the game, he recorded 4 sacks this year and 6 last year.

Renaldo Wynn is superior against the run but only recorded half a sack.

The Reserves

Demetric Evans recorded 3 sacks this year coming off the bench. He appears to be very solid against the run and has a quick first step. I feel that he would excell if given more reps.

Nic Clemons didn't do much of anything this year, but he is a physical anomaly. At 6'6" 300 lbs he moves remarkably well. Gregg Williams is very high on his potential and if he learns the nuances of the DE position he may end up being a very good player.

Ryan Boschetti also did little this year statistic-wise. Yet he too has tremendous physical ability. He is listed as a DT, but has good enough speed to be an edge rusher.

I believe that given our other needs, WR, backup O-line, and possibly LB (depending on how the LA situation works out), D-line is not imperative. The likelihood of aquiring a difference maker late in the second round at DE is not high. If we rotate bodies in and out on the line effectively we should be able to sustain a solid pass rush next year. While we only had 35 sacks as a team last year, we were still in the top half of the league in sack yards.

What do yall think. Can we survive and excell with what we have now?

uhhhhhh.. did you not watch this season, my friend??

until the redskins can generate a pass rush using just the front four, we arenot going any further inthe playoffs. every time williams turns the secondary loose, he is rolling the dice. teams caught onto him and we got burned-- a lot. the defense got better as he got more conservative during the final push, but this was offset by the re emergence of daniels as a pass rushing threat and the return of salavea and griffin from injury. do you really think it is possible for those guys to remain injury free for the entire 2006 seaon? not likely to happen.. we need younger, more athletic pass rushers to rotate with wynn and daniels. boschetti, evans, nic clemons, aki jones are all borderline roster players at best. they have heart, but none of them is going to inspire offensive coordinators to spend time scheming to combat them.

chris clemons might be a pass rusher from the edge.. but he is not a 3 down player and nobody is going to confuse him with LT, who played in a 3/4 anyway. lavar??? lavar has gone south since marv lewis departed and his knees followed him south.

so, here is the formula for next year...

step one.. we sign a veteran end who can provide pass rush without getting blown up continuously on the run. abraham, darrin howard, raheem brock, aaron kampman.. sign him on day 1 of free agency

step 2... use the second rounder in the draft to take the best def end still on the board. hold our breaths that someone like tapp slides a bit. but he is not the only guy out there..

step 3..... after the draft sign 3-5 tweeners who were not drafted. guys who are designated college pass rushers who are too light to anchor against the run but who can get after the passer and hope that 1 or 2 of them can stick or at least make the practice squad and then grow into an every day player.

do that, sign a legitimate #2 receiver in free agency, use the 3rd rounder for the best guard still on the board, and use the rest of the draft for depth and we are on our way........ as long as brunell stays healthy or as long as campbell is ready

[shallyshal]

Elite QB's like Manning will eat us up without a pass rusher.

Even upper eschelon QB's like McNabb can scarmble and create plays due to our ends not being athletic enough.

Against average QB's, our secondary is strong enough to create "coverage sacks" (god how i dispise that term), but there are teams that have and wille at us alive due to the lack of pressure we place on the QB.

totally agree with you

[shallyshal]

I tink that the WR position is a biger concern right now then the D-line. They really came together towards the end of the season. Plus some were injured thorughout the season. Next year, the D-line will be better without a doubt.

we can fixthe wideout position in free agency alone.. whereas the def line is going to take both free agency and the draft to fix.

if patten is healthy then he is our number 3... pick up someone like koren robinson, moulds, randle el, jimmy smith, givens (my favorite) or whomever the team wants... and shazammm !!! the receiver corps is fixed

if you lack confidence in patten, then pick up a second wideout like hilliard at vet minimum and shazzammmm! the receiver corps is fixed