Question about Divorce and Children

[Opiate-Zeo]

Ok, I have a strange situation here.

I'm in the process of getting a divorce. I have a 2 year old boy and a 5 year old girl. My wife and I have been separated for 6 months now, and not very good for the last 2 years. We have both decided to try as hard as we can to remain friends for our kids. So far, it's been hard but we have been getting better. I made a promise to her to put her through nursing school so she can have a good job when we are divorced. Unfortunatly, this makes it so I have to remain married for another 2 years for insurance (you need insurance to go through nursing clinicals).

Ok, so now I have met someone else. I believe she's very special. She's someone I care about a great deal. She is in a very similar situation I am in and we won't be able to be together until very close to when I get divorced. But, we have a problem that I find very important.

If I can keep a good working friendship with my current wife after we get divorced, I would like to have a time, like a couple hours a week, where my kids can be with both their mother and I.

Now, this is obviously some time off, so I don't know how that's actually going to work out. So, this would be an ideal situation.

The woman I am seeing now completely and totally disagrees with me. She states that I should not want to be around my ex wife at all. She loves my kids and she wants to be a big part of their life. However, she does not think that once I am remarried that I should spend any time at all with my ex wife, even at the benefit of my kids. She would be ok with her being with us after we're married, but she is not ok with just me being with my kids and their mother alone.

So, Am I wrong here? Am I asking too much of a person that I date and eventually marry to let me have some time with my kids and their mother?

Thanks for any insight.

[niyahisacutie]

No, you're not wrong but you do need to feel where the other person is coming from. Understand that a woman will have these envious feelings because you are alone with your ex. If you've never given her reason to believe that you've committed infidelity, then you're cool and let her know that you're doing this to benefit the kids.. You need to let her know that there is nothign going on between you and your ex. But, on the same token, she needs to be a little bit more understanding. If she's having these little attitudes now about you spending time with your kids--take out the soon to be ex wife--then, she's not what you need. She'll be forever having these ugly feelings and it might lead to her resenting your kids, treating them differently or them resenting her and not respecting her.

Hope that helps

[dks1240]

My parents divorced when I was about 4 and my sister was 6. Personally I think it was easier for me to only see my parents apart. I was confused as in when my mom first introduced me to the man that came to be my step dad and I'd imagine seeing my parents together and then seeing my mom with another man would have been much harder for me.

Your kids are still very young and won't really understand the situation. I think it is probably best to not spend time with your soon to be exwife and the kids at the same time. Just my two cents though. Good luck with everything

[jrockster21]

My parents divorced when I was about 4 and my sister was 6. Personally I think it was easier for me to only see my parents apart. I was confused as in when my mom first introduced me to the man that came to be my step dad and I'd imagine seeing my parents together and then seeing my mom with another man would have been much harder for me.

Your kids are still very young and won't really understand the situation. I think it is probably best to not spend time with your soon to be exwife and the kids at the same time. Just my two cents though. Good luck with everything

Yeah, I agree with this...I was a little older when my parents split, but it still would have been hard to see them together. While you might want your kids to experience it, it will only confuse them.

[twa]

I agree with the last two posts. My parents split when I was 4 ,while they maintained a civil relationship it was confusing as hell,especially when the step-parents came along.

My advice (other than not divorcing) would be spend as much time as possible with your children,but not with your ex-wife.

[DeanCollins]

OZ, I was in your position at 29yo, 16 years ago, separating from my son's mom when he was 2. At the time, I really didn't want anything to do with her, but after awhile we moved into a friendship that is kinda special even now.

I had joint custody and had my son wednesday eves. and every weekend. I dated continously but stayed out of serious relationships for 3 years. I just wanted to enjoy being a bachelor and spending quality time (one on one) with my son. I think this is very important to establish this new relationship with your children, my son had no doubt that his was #1. It also gave me time to re-evaluate my life ,goals, and do some things that marriage had got in the way of like traveling, hobbies etc...

You didn't ask for this but I'm going to say it. Why are you "wife shopping"

before you're even divorced? You need to straighten out your lugage somewhat, before you go aquiring more. Your new significant other sounds jealous, and rightly so, you haven't ended your other relationship.

So there an attept to 'control' what you do with your children, which is inappropriate. I would advise staying single for awhile. If that means going back to "just dating" this one, or seeing someone else, so that you can do what you need to do with regards to your kids without outside interference.

There is no set way to do visitation. I took vacations with my ex and my son. As long as the two of you get along and dont' fight in front of the kids, it's all good. Ask youself this question though, are you really wanting to spend time with your ex, just for the sake of the kids?

[dks1240]

I agree with the last two posts. My parents split when I was 4 ,while they maintained a civil relationship it was confusing as hell,especially when the step-parents came along.

My advice (other than not divorcing) would be spend as much time as possible with your children,but not with your ex-wife.

twa brings up another good point here. for the most part my parents remained civil (well at least they made it seem that way) and this made things very easy.

there was one cruel thing my dad did...when we were staying with him one weekend, he took my sister and i to the pet store and let us each by a feeding mouse. my sister and i thought they were going to be our new pets, we were so excited. well when we got home my mom, who happens to HATE mice, made us release them into the woods. we were so mad at her and she was so pissed at my dad for temporarily turning us against her. :laugh:

[Art Monk Fan]

It seems like you're not really ready to move beyond your marriage, have you tried marriage counseling? My ex and I split when my son was only two adn the effects it has had on his life are quite apparent. If there's anything still left between you and your wife, it is in everyones interest to explore that fully before moving on. You may be moving too quickly with the new woman. :2cents:

[rictus58]

I don't come form a family with divorced parents but I would like to add something here. The new lady seems to be trying to control the situation to her benefit only. You are looking towards an arrangment that would be in the best interests of your children. Do not let this new lady influence you to compromise your value system.

Her beliefs may change over time. She could just be feeling jealous that there is another woman in your life who will take attention away from her. However, you don't know if she will change. Right now the only thing she appears to be interested in changing, (according to your post) is you.

Tread lightly.

[twa]

It seems like you're not really ready to move beyond your marriage, have you tried marriage counseling? My ex and I split when my son was only two adn the effects it has had on his life are quite apparent. If there's anything still left between you and your wife, it is in everyones interest to explore that fully before moving on. You may be moving too quickly with the new woman. :2cents:

Good advice, one point more . My parents recently passed away,yet the effects from the divorce still affect my everyday life 41 yrs later.

Sometimes divorce is best ,but go slow and consider all the options.

[Thiebear]

Me and my Ex have every other 2 days and every other weekend...

Her mother/My ex mother in law takes Carolaine (7) to 1st grade every morning.

The 3 year old stays at whomever persons house it is that day and goes to the other person house (1.5 miles away) around noon on the tradeoff days.

We do PTA together and she will come by the house quite often to pick up the kids if Grandma doesnt do the tradeoff or either one of us has the day off... She works inthe Gov't so its quite a few.

We did Holloween together. We did Christmas together 1st year AND trade off midday last year and this year. We do birthday parties together...

To us its ALL about the kids ALL of the time till they are at least old enough to say STOP.... We coordinate rules/ we coordinate shows they can watch and we double check anything the kids say the other said to make sure were united ....

We are not normal though as Virginia makes you go through divorce school 4 hours and we went together.. the people in the class thought the state sent us...

be true to the kids 1st, but if its not going to HARM them don't ruin your own life either.

EDIT: I don't do to well with relationships lately and probably won't till this is done.......... it could be a while, but its called a choice and its one you better subscribe to before you endure it.

[Tommy-the-Greek]

My brother and I went thru a divorce when we were 2 and 3. My mother got custody and then died approx a 1-2 years later. Then we stayed with my father's parents until he got custody and was in a position to take care of us. He remarried and we lived with him and our step mom. All this moving around was very confusing for us.

You seem to be a father who is willing to put the needs of his children before his own needs. It will probably be better for your children to not see you and there mother spending time together. You should really seek the advice of a professional and ask them what they think. I would tend to believe the less confusion and more stability would be in your childrens best interest. :2cents:

[nelms]

Whatever you do, make sure you have a rock solid separation agreement/divorce agreement. Make sure everything is specifically defined, especially the amount of time you are allowed to spend with your kids. My ex and I agreed that we would split the time with my child evenly, but I made sure that was specifically defined in our legal and binding agreement. I also made sure there was a provision in there that didn't allow her to move my child out of the state without my permission. Any divorce lawyer is going to know these things. Do NOT go on verbal agreement alone. My brother made that mistake and now his ex is yanking him like you wouldn't believe.

[iheartskins]

My parents divorced when I was about 4 and my sister was 6. Personally I think it was easier for me to only see my parents apart. I was confused as in when my mom first introduced me to the man that came to be my step dad and I'd imagine seeing my parents together and then seeing my mom with another man would have been much harder for me.

Your kids are still very young and won't really understand the situation. I think it is probably best to not spend time with your soon to be exwife and the kids at the same time. Just my two cents though. Good luck with everything

I think dks nails it.

A couple other points...make sure you're doing what's best for the children. They are number one--not that your own happiness isn't crucially important. I think that's already pretty clear, but having been a child of a divorced family, I wanted to stress that point.

Another issue is considering whether you and the new woman have a real future together--if so, then the mother of your kids and your new "wife" are going to have contact for the rest of your lives. Starting things out on the right foot is very important if you want to have a good relationship, which is really important for the kids, going forward.

I know that's not a definitive answer, but I'd try as hard as possible to find some kind of compromise. I understand your new "wife's" apprehension of you being along with your current wife. I aslo think dks makes a good point about this. It's one thing if you are only there at a school play or PTA night or something like that, but spending time with the current wife and the kids and just you is, as dks says, might be a little confusing and hurtful to your kids as they might be confused about a potential remarriage possibility (which kids always do with divorced parents--at least I did).

I hope everything works out for the best.

[iheartskins]

Whatever you do, make sure you have a rock solid separation agreement/divorce agreement. Make sure everything is specifically defined, especially the amount of time you are allowed to spend with your kids. My ex and I agreed that we would split the time with my child evenly, but I made sure that was specifically defined in our legal and binding agreement. I also made sure there was a provision in there that didn't allow her to move my child out of the state without my permission. Any divorce lawyer is going to know these things. Do NOT go on verbal agreement alone. My brother made that mistake and now his ex is yanking him like you wouldn't believe.

nelms makes a very good point. Ensure that whatever agreement you have as far as custody, time sharing, etc. is reduced to writing. Very, very important if the relationship ever devolves.

[Art Monk Fan]

nelms makes a very good point. Ensure that whatever agreement you have as far as custody, time sharing, etc. is reduced to writing. Very, very important if the relationship ever devolves.

Another important point is to try and reach an agreement and then have it formalized second.

Involving lawyers, and even more so the courts, in the actual agreement process is both expensive and can be very counter productive. The judicial system is adversarial by its nature and contributes heavily toward making many amicable situations contentious.

If you can avoid the courts, do so at all costs -- it gets very ugly, very quickly once a judge and lawyers get involved.

[iheartskins]

Another important point is to try and reach an agreement and then have it formalized second.

Involving lawyers, and even more so the courts, in the actual agreement process is both expensive and can be very counter productive. The judicial system is adversarial by its nature and contributes heavily toward making many amicable situations contentious.

If you can avoid the courts, do so at all costs -- it gets very ugly, very quickly once a judge and lawyers get involved.

True and not true. If you have a transactional lawyer look at your documents and instruct them to remain friendly and negotiate the final terms it can prove very fruitful and non-necessarily contentious at all. However, AMF makes a good point in that you and she should come to some kind of preliminary understanding between the two of you, draft something that reflects that understanding and perhaps, then bring in counsel to review the document. Often a lawyer's tone in negotiations is driven by the client--but that's really secondary to the matter at hand.

AMF is definitely right about this: Keeping things amicable through the entire process is crucial.

[SkinsNut73]

My parents divorced when I was a teenager, though the marriage was going south several years before then. I remember being 9-10 yrs old and dreading the day they might split up...to being an 11-12 yr old who couldn't wait for them to separate. The constant bickering and arguing got to be to much. The day my dad moved out was probably the saddest day of my life...but a few days later I began to notice how peaceful it was in the house :laugh: . Very quiet...no arguements. Still missed Dad terribly though. A couple of years after the divorce they tried to reconcile...began dating again...Dad was spending more and more time with Mom. Then something happened...to this day I'm not sure what...but they stopped dating...and if they are in the same room together today...you could cut the tension in the room with a chainsaw .

All that to say...even as a teen, when I saw my parents spending time together I was so hopeful they would get back together. This despite the fact I was well aware of how poor their marriage was in its final days/years. It tore my heart out...your children are younger than I was...but I wonder if they will have that same hope seeing mom and dad hanging out together?

As for your "new wife" and not wanting you to spend time with your ex alone...I can understand it. I'm trying to put myself in her shoes and figure out how I would feel if my wife wanted to spend a couple of hours a week with her ex-husband without me around...not sure I'd be to accomodating. I know you are trying to do what is best for the kids...I think that's spending as much time as you can with them...it doesn't mean you have to be with the ex-wife at the same time IMO.

...but if that's important to you that you have the ex-wife with you and the kids...I wouldn't argue it. Just saying I understand the new wife's stand.

[nelms]

Another important point is to try and reach an agreement and then have it formalized second.

Involving lawyers, and even more so the courts, in the actual agreement process is both expensive and can be very counter productive. The judicial system is adversarial by its nature and contributes heavily toward making many amicable situations contentious.

If you can avoid the courts, do so at all costs -- it gets very ugly, very quickly once a judge and lawyers get involved.

Excellent point and that's what my ex and I did. We came to an agreement on everything that should be in the separation agreement (which then became our divorce agreement later). She agreed to hire a lawyer to draft the formal agreement and I hired my own lawyer to review it and bless it. We only had to make one minor change to it. Couldn't have worked out better.

[Art Monk Fan]

True and not true. If you have a transactional lawyer look at your documents and instruct them to remain friendly and negotiate the final terms it can prove very fruitful and non-necessarily contentious at all. However, AMF makes a good point in that you and she should come to some kind of preliminary understanding between the two of you, draft something that reflects that understanding and perhaps, then bring in counsel to review the document. Often a lawyer's tone in negotiations is driven by the client--but that's really secondary to the matter at hand.

AMF is definitely right about this: Keeping things amicable through the entire process is crucial.

As a lawyer, i kind of expected you would chime in with some sort of qualifier to my post.

I agree with what you've written, I was trying to emphasize the importance of having the basic framework -- all the major points -- worked out before involving a lawyer.

I also wanted to point out the benefit of removing a judge from the entire matter (except of course signing the final agreement to make it binding).

Once you get to the point of preparing a case for a judge, your lawyer has to maximize your chances of winning, which by nature places you and your ex in an adversarial situation. That's when all the outlandish stuff starts coming out and it gets ugly. Take it from someone who has been involved in four separate custody proceedings in the last 12 years -- you don't want to go to court on this.

[Opiate-Zeo]

I would like to thank everyone for your responses. Very kind.

DKS, your response actually hit me the most. I really hadn't sat down and thought about it in the eyes of my children. I was only thinking of it from a father's point of view. But, it makes a lot of sense that it would confuse them to see us together after the divorce.

As far as reconciling the marrige, that's unfortunately not going to happen. We did try counseling which didn't work out very well.

I completely understand trying to work out everything with our divorce and settlement. This is one of my goals.

I didn't expect this kind of response so again I would like to thank everyone for responding.

"Why are you "wife shopping""

I wanted to answer this question specifically. This new woman I met was a complete and total suprise to me. I had not planned on even dating again until after I was completely divorced. So, I'm not wife shopping, I just think I found the right person for me. I hope you understand that.

[jrockster21]

I just wanted to enjoy being a bachelor and spending quality time (one on one) with my son. I think this is very important to establish this new relationship with your children, my son had no doubt that his was #1. It also gave me time to re-evaluate my life ,goals, and do some things that marriage had got in the way of like traveling, hobbies etc...

This is true -- my dad dated a lot, and had a couple serious relationships, and we grew kind of distant because he didn't focus on me one on one a lot. Its probably one of the reasons I got into a lot of trouble in my teenage years. I would agree that its a good time to focus on your children alone...without your wife.

[DeanCollins]

I didn't expect this kind of response so again I would like to thank everyone for responding.

"Why are you "wife shopping""

I wanted to answer this question specifically. This new woman I met was a complete and total suprise to me. I had not planned on even dating again until after I was completely divorced. So, I'm not wife shopping, I just think I found the right person for me. I hope you understand that.

You took that literally, I was reffering to the sudden seriousness of the new relationship before the other one was overwith. Like "on the rebound".

It wasn't a criticism, just challenging you to think a little while you're in the middle of that emotional sh!t storm called your divorce. good luck with it.

[riggins44]

When I married my wife, I got a package deal with 2 step-children. I have to agree with others in that it's not a good idea to spend time with your ex-wife

and kids. This will only confuse them. It is very important that you remain

friends and/or civil to each other.

I didn't have kids when I got divorced, but can see the flip side of your situation. Dealing with step-children can be a challenge. One thing we did

was to allow the kids to decide what to call me. They call me by my name

and couple of times when very young they would call me dad.

[jbooma]

Ok, I have a strange situation here.

I'm in the process of getting a divorce. I have a 2 year old boy and a 5 year old girl. My wife and I have been separated for 6 months now, and not very good for the last 2 years. We have both decided to try as hard as we can to remain friends for our kids. So far, it's been hard but we have been getting better. I made a promise to her to put her through nursing school so she can have a good job when we are divorced. Unfortunatly, this makes it so I have to remain married for another 2 years for insurance (you need insurance to go through nursing clinicals).

Ok, so now I have met someone else. I believe she's very special. She's someone I care about a great deal. She is in a very similar situation I am in and we won't be able to be together until very close to when I get divorced. But, we have a problem that I find very important.

If I can keep a good working friendship with my current wife after we get divorced, I would like to have a time, like a couple hours a week, where my kids can be with both their mother and I.

Now, this is obviously some time off, so I don't know how that's actually going to work out. So, this would be an ideal situation.

The woman I am seeing now completely and totally disagrees with me. She states that I should not want to be around my ex wife at all. She loves my kids and she wants to be a big part of their life. However, she does not think that once I am remarried that I should spend any time at all with my ex wife, even at the benefit of my kids. She would be ok with her being with us after we're married, but she is not ok with just me being with my kids and their mother alone.

So, Am I wrong here? Am I asking too much of a person that I date and eventually marry to let me have some time with my kids and their mother?

Thanks for any insight.

First off I do not want to sound harsh here, but if you have been seperated for 6 months how on earth can you say you have met someone that you think you can marry. You need to get your life straight before worrying about dating or starting anything new with someone.

I would also think more about why this didn't work and how you could make it work in the future when you are ready.

As for your question you are not asking to much but that depends on the person. To me if she would be upset by it then either she is not sure you are over your wife and feel something might happen, or she is the jealous type.