Shane/WR Trade Package?

[Boomer44]

Does anyone think that trading SM with a Lockett/Anthony/Green will get us anything of value in return? (O-line help) Shane probably has the best value right now because he is a known commodity and could be valued as a possible backup for a team like the Seahawks or somebody. And adding in a wr with talent like Lockett or Green might add to the possibility. It appears that the Skins are loaded, or should I say, have a lot of wr's with equal talent.

Any thoughts?

[OrangeSkin]

Shane has more value than Sage, because he's a proven commodity. With the way Sage performed tonight, it looks like he's becoming more comfortable in the offense. I'd like to see Shane and Lockett to the Rams for a decent starter.

[Art]

My prediction to start camp was that Wuerffel would be cut with Matthews, Sage and Ramsey in the fold knowing that Wuerffel wouldn't get picked up. That's still the case, but, it's almost impossible to cut Wuerffel now. If he bombs badly against Tampa then we can address that statement.

I can't see us going into the season now without Matthews just as a veteran influence. One thing we can't do though is cut Sage. The Eagles or Cowboys will pick him up and milk him for info. The Giants already have Palmer to milk for info. But, Sage would hurt us going to another team right away.

We might keep four QBs just to prevent that. Of course, I think it's more likely you'll see Sage with a horrible bruise that just won't heal without a year on IR.

[88Comrade2000]

What happens if Danny stinks it up next week?

The battle for the starting job is Danny's to lose but he could well lose it to Shane next week.

[Atlanta Skins Fan]

At this point, I think the WRs most likely to be traded are, in order of likelihood:

Lockett

Gardner

McCants

Anthony

Anthony is least likely of these four because probably no one wants him.

Roster locks are probably Doering, Thompson and Green (who didn't play tonight due to injury in the Carolina game).

As posted previously, I deeply oppose a trade of McCants (also Thompson and Doering), but I have the feeling that Spurrier may not like him as much as I do. I didn't get a good vibe tonight from the way Spurrier used McCants, though McCants did well with his opportunities.

Anthony might be cut, but it's hard to see a trade. Also, he put up big numbers at Florida for Spurrier, so there may be more loyalty to Anthony than Redskin fans expect.

[Art]

If Wuerffel stinks it up it will open up the questions because of the QBs, Shane would have looked best against other starters. Still, something suspicious in me thinks Spurrier cares too much about proving himself right with Wuerffel that in his return to Florida he will create some things to get points on the board and Wuerffel the starting job.

[Atlanta Skins Fan]

Originally posted by Art

If Wuerffel stinks it up it will open up the questions because of the QBs, Shane would have looked best against other starters. Still, something suspicious in me thinks Spurrier cares too much about proving himself right with Wuerffel that in his return to Florida he will create some things to get points on the board and Wuerffel the starting job.

I don't understand what all the fuss is tonight about the QBs. Wuerffel threw, what, 5 passes? On most of them he had very little time to throw. I just chucked this game from consideration as an evaluation of Wuerffel.

Sage and then Matthews followed and thoroughly stank out the joint. Each looked awful.

Then, Matthews turned it around and played well, negating his earlier bad play somewhat.

Then, Sage turned it around in the 4th quarter and played well, also negating his earlier bad play somewhat.

At the end of the game, my evaluation of the QB rankings hadn't budged at all:

1. Wuerffel

2. Matthews

3. Sage

It would be nice to see Wuerffel against a good starting defense when he actually has time to throw. Unfortunately, Helton & Co. denied us that opportunity. Maybe next week.

[Boomer44]

Art,

I think you are right about SOS proving everyone wrong with DW...or should I say that I think he would like to but if DW is not getting the job done then I don't think SOS will stick with him to prove a point. Deep down I believe that DW is the best at running this offense and hopefully he will get better support out of his fellow teammates next week and show what he can do.

Also, I do not really worry about teams trying to get some playbook info from ex-gator qb's and later on ex-skins qb's. It is going to happen some time or another and there is nothing that the skins can do about it in the long run. So if their only concern about trading a qb is that another team might get information about the playbook from him, then I say trade them if it is going to help the team. And how much do they really get out of the traded player anyways? They see the plays and formations on film.

So, if they can trade SM and a receiver for a starting quality guard I would be all over it.

[Art]

ASF,

I don't disagree with you here. Wuerffel is still in front. If he looks atrocious against Tampa it could open up the competition again since at that point the only starter who would have done well against other starters would have been Matthews.

I don't know how Matthews looked in this game. He was 14 for 21 for 137 yards with 2 TDs and 2 INTs. Obviously that's not great, but, it's the kind of awful that doesn't bother me as much as fewer completions or no TDs. If Danny gets blown up against Tampa and we have to pick our starter based on who has looked best against other starters, then that will have been Shane.

[Atlanta Skins Fan]

Originally posted by Art

ASF,

I don't disagree with you here. Wuerffel is still in front. If he looks atrocious against Tampa it could open up the competition again since at that point the only starter who would have done well against other starters would have been Matthews.

I don't know how Matthews looked in this game. He was 14 for 21 for 137 yards with 2 TDs and 2 INTs. Obviously that's not great, but, it's the kind of awful that doesn't bother me as much as fewer completions or no TDs. If Danny gets blown up against Tampa and we have to pick our starter based on who has looked best against other starters, then that will have been Shane.

Art, Matthews ended up with good stats because he turned it around after finally getting better pass protection. But he played against the 2nd string Pittsburgh defense. In his initial couple of series, also against the 2nd string defense, he looked awful.

Wuerffel was had no time to throw at all. He threw one INT on a bomb in which the receiver (Lockett) stopped running after Wuerffel was flushed from the pocket. Otherwise Wuerffel limited the damage in his few pass attempts.

The difference between Wuerffel and Matthews/Sage during their ineffective stretches was decision making. Matthews and Sage both made some really terrible passes that were either INTs or should have been INTs. I'm not sure that Wuerffel's INT was even his fault, though his pass was a desperation bomb on a broken play.

[Mad Mike]

I don't know what some of you are thinking. Shane came in against 2nd and third stringers and SUCKED. :puke: What success he had was due more to the play calling and system.

Sage I made less mistakes and looked better facing 1st and 2nd stringers in my book.

DW was at the mercy of our lousy line play, dropped passes and stupid penaltys.:doh:

[Art]

ASF,

Every single other person who witnessed the game has no terrible objection to the way the line played today. Why you seem to lack what the other dozens have I simply do not know. But, if Shane looked good against Steeler backups and you think that sucks, then, you think Danny sucks because he's only looked good against backups to this point.

Now, I don't share your view. To me the important thing is the execution and decision making and accuracy of the throws. But, you are not allowed to qualify Shane's outing as less impressive against backups than Wuerffel's outings against the same unless you want your opinion to be dismissed, which it largely is on more than you know.

Ultimately you and I agree to this point on how the QBs shake out and I haven't seen this outing yet so, until I do I'll continue to listen to those who've been talking about it and most agree that Matthews seemed to lack something while all except you say the line looked ok. Until I can offer my own impression, I'll believe those who think it through.

[Montilar]

Mathews looked kind of like Sage in Sage's first outing. Shaky, but settling down to a comfort level. His first int was just stupid. He had no one open and was feeling rushed, so he just dumped it to the center of the line of scrimmage. Guess hefigured the guard was an eligible reciever. Instead the defensive lineman grabbed an easy INT. Then he started the rally, getting the two Td's to make it 27-14.

I was mildly surprised when Sage came in, instead of leaving mathews in all game as was supposed to happen. Guess Spurrier figured Mathews had looked good enough and wanted to see Sage again. Especially as Sage hadn't accomplished much in the second quarter (6-10 about 100 yds.) Sage ended up 17-25 244 yds. so that puts him 11-15 in the second half.

One thing I noticed that the WR coach needs to work on is having the recievers drive back for the ball. there were several almost INTs where the reciever ran the route, cut and did not come back for the ball or shield the DB from the ball. that's going to give up an INT every game if that continues to happen.

So was Sage put in the second half to give him the opportunity to shine (trade bait)? someone speculated on chicago playing Gandy that Gandy was showcased.

[gamecockskins]

i think dw played well. His interception served as a punt. He did not get much of a chance this game so i still think he is a solid #1. Lets face it though, we have a lot of work to do before we are ready to play a regular season game. I did think our pass rush looked a little better tonight though. If we can cut out the turnovers i think we can win 10 this year. other than a screen play, reverse and a long pass to burris the first team defense impressed me. Also, i think we got through the game injury free.

[Carlito Sway]

TD notwithstanding, he looked the worst of the 3 QBs we featured tonight. The fact that SS dumped him for Sage speaks volumes.

[codeorama]

I'm not saying I'm for this but, there was another post saying that the bears Started Gandy in their game, did anyone notice that Lockett returned all the punts? I think Gandy may have started so we could see him and Lockett got alot of Playing Time for the same reason. The other part to think about is Sage returning in the 4th. SS said Shane would play the entire 2nd half, but after a poor showing by Sage, he put him back in, did the Skins want to give Sage another chance to look good for the Bears? Pulling Shane after he did shows that SS is comfortable with Shane. He did well enough leading them to 2 scores. (I know, he struggled too). But the Bears already know about Shane and if he was trade bait, wouldn't you leave him in longer to give someone a look? Just my thoughts..

[BlitzFiftySix]

They are not trading Shane. The thought of this is ridiculous.

[Nighthawk]

I keep thinking back to the offseason and the moves the Redskins have made and the rumors that have followed after those moves.

Spurrier inherited Sage and the Redskins traded a backup DT to Houston for DW. That much we know as fact. From the moment we traded for DW, football pundits like Mel Kiper and Chris Mortenson have said that DW would be the Redskins starting QB

based on the fact that of all the former Florida QB's, he would be the best one to run Spurrier's offense. We laughed at the thought of a journeyman third string QB could possibly start for us.

Now comes the rumors. Spurrier didn't want to trade for Shane Matthews and didn't want to bring him in after he was cut by Chicago, but Matthews was forced upon him by the Redskins front office.

Spurrier didn't want to draft Patrick Ramsey, but again Ramsey was forced upon him by the Redskins front office.

Well, we know for sure that the Redskins won't cut Ramsey. That leaves 3 QB's fighting for 2 spots. Going into last night's game, Spurrier had not deviated from his QB rotation going into the game.

In game 1 in Japan he said Sage would start and play a half and that DW would play the 2nd half. That's how it went.

In game 2 he said Shane would start and play a half and then DW and Sage would each play a quarter in the 2nd half and that's what happened.

Last night he said, DW would start and split the 1st half with Sage and the Shane would play the entire 2nd half insuring that each QB would have played a full game in preseason. Well, that didn't happen and I think it speaks volumes as to what Spurrier is thinking.

Matthews knows Spurrier's offense. Sage had to learn it. Shane is a NFL veteran. Sage is a 2nd year player who didn't throw a pass last year. Shane should be head and shoulder's above Sage and he's not and I think this is a cause of concern to Spurrier. Maybe Shane has picked up too many bad habits as Spurrier likes to call them during his time in the NFL. Sage is expected to make mistakes in Spurriers offense, Shane is not!

Unless DW looks good awful vs. Tampa next week, I think Matthews is on the outside looking in. Did anybody catch the look on his face as Sage was leading the comeback? Also, DW told Sage at halftime to be ready to go back in, in the second half. I found that to be a little strange.

[Mad Mike]

Nighthawk. Finaly someone has a real grip on what happened.

My reaction last night to Shane's performance was a little over the top. Mainly because I expected a much better performance from him but I have other reasons. Shane seems to have no fire in his eyes. He has acted as if his 15 (or so) NFL starts makes him a shoe in here. Further reports that he has shown little interest in practicing the mechanics the ballcoach wants when the ballcoach is not around dim my enthusiasm.

I think the ballcoach wanted to see Sage under the same conditions as Shane last night and all things being equal Sage was much better. SeYa Shane. Don't forget to write.

[Nighthawk]

Mad Mike. I totally agree with you as far as Shane's attitude about his status as an NFL veteran. It's a shame because I'm actually a Shane Matthew's fan. I was hoping that we would trade for him before last year when Marty was here but he should be running Spurrier's offense to precision based on his familiarity with it and the fact that he is an NFL veteran and he's not.

Plus he hasn't looked as good as the other QB's in camp.

[GatorRob]

Unless DW looks good awful vs. Tampa next week, I think Matthews is on the outside looking in. Did anybody catch the look on his face as Sage was leading the comeback? Also, DW told Sage at halftime to be ready to go back in, in the second half. I found that to be a little strange.

Glad you picked up on that. Wonder how Danny knew this information. I HIGHLY doubt that SOS told Wuerffel this. Can Danny read SOS' mind? Or is he just perceptive at reading the tea leaves?

Gatorphile that I am, I am also getting negative vibes regarding Matthews (and Anthony). Shane sometimes strikes me as one who feels entitled. Don't think SOS ignores this, either. There is nothing he loves doing (short of sinking a 40 footer) more than "coaching up his QBs." You can bet the bank that he will discern whether Shane is blowing him off or not. It APPEARS that both Shane and Reidel have picked up a number of "bad habits," one of which the possible assertion that, being NFL veterans, they know more about the game than their mentor.

To turn on Yoda your back wise is not!!:notworthy :notworthy

[Mad Mike]

Personaly I would trade Shane and Lockett or Anthony for a quality guard and toss in a case of bourbon for good measure. Come to think of it, I'd trade Shane for a case of bourbon. :laugh:

[codeorama]

Nighthawk..

You have changed my opinion totally. I think you are right on. The point you made about bad habbits hit home. Shane does NOT use the same mechanics that SS teaches. BUT... Sage does. Sage has changed the way he throws to please SS and he is doing what evers SS asks of him. I'm a high school baseball coach, and I'll be the first to tell you, there's nothing worse than a player who does not do what you teach. I think Shane may be packing his bags soon....

Damn. should I go back and edit all the other posts.... ?

[SkinnedGator]

If SOS was going to trade shane, he would have left him in to run up the score...I'd say Sage is on the block.

[Mad Mike]

Funny how so many people can see the same exact thing and read so many different things into it. :laugh: