The Redskins owe us

[SkinsNoles21]

We have been good only one time in the past 13 years. It is time they get their heads out of there asses and win these four games for the deserving fans who stick around year after year no matter how much we lose. If the Redskins win these next 4 it would go a long way to turning this franchise back to the skins of old

[HateYanksDukeCowboys]

A-f***ing-men

[Dead Money]

Yeah - They OWE it to us!! :tantrum:

:doh:

How about a 180-day no post probationary period? :jump:

[Om]

Someone didn't do his homework.

6. Do not attempt to circumvent the profanity filters. Let the filters do their job. Veiled profanity is unacceptable. We allow the use of either all asterisks/symbols or not at all. For example "****" and "*&*%$" are acceptable, while "sh!t, “s**t” or “sh*t" are not.

Come on, folks, we're all mostly adults here. The rule shouldn't really even be necessary, but it's there because, apparently, it is. Can we PLEASE try to find ways of expressing our deep thoughts in ways that don't require clever use of asterisks?

Please?

[GB81]

Looks like someone should have read the ******* rules.

And yes, we're clearly all adults here...very immature adults.

[Om]

As to the concept of a pro sports franchise "owing" its fans something, I agree to a point. In my view, it owes its paying public one thing, and one thing only: making every reasonable effort to put a winning product on the field.

And ours is ... I defy anyone to argue otherwise.

Yes, one can perhaps reasonably quibble with how they've applied those efforts, but that's a totally different discussion. What one cannot do is reasonably make the case that they've stood pat and simply tried to cash in.

I felt I got what was "owed" me by this franchise when they committed to bringing back Joe Gibbs, and then handed him the authority and resources he needed to get things turned around. We're just a year-and-a-half into that process, and despite the heartbreak of 3 straight razor-close losses, I'm still 100% convinced the overall trend is headed firmly in the right direction and we're on solid footing again.

Which means I don't feel I'm "owed" anything more at the moment.

[zoony]

means justify the ends, eh Om?

........

[DCNightHawk]

The skins owe me big time. I have only gotten to see 2 playoff games when i was 9.

[Om]

mean justify the ends, eh Om?

........

Pretty cryptic, brother.

Not sure exactly what you're implying there. Do tell.

[skinstzar]

As to the concept of a pro sports franchise "owing" its fans something, I agree to a point. In my view, it owes its paying public one thing, and one thing only: making every reasonable effort to put a winning product on the field.

And ours is ... I defy anyone to argue otherwise.

Yes, one can perhaps reasonably quibble with how they've applied those efforts, but that's a totally different discussion. What one cannot do is reasonably make the case that they've stood pat and simply tried to cash in.

I felt I got what was "owed" me by this franchise when they committed to bringing back Joe Gibbs, and then handed him the authority and resources he needed to get things turned around. We're just a year-and-a-half into that process, and despite the heartbreak of 3 straight razor-close losses, I'm still 100% convinced the overall trend is headed firmly in the right direction and we're on solid footing again.

Which means I don't feel I'm "owed" anything more at the moment.

They do also owe their season tickets holders a great game day experience. The skins are 0-2 in my book. The team underachieves and the stadium is awwwwwfuuuul. I would kill for the Maloofs to buy this team. Although Danny was handcuffed with Fed-Ex when he bought the team. Still the service is poor and the staff is retarded.

[Om]

They do also owe their season tickets holders a great game day experience. The skins are 0-2 in my book. The team underachieves and the stadium is awwwwwfuuuul. I would kill for the Maloofs to buy this team. Although Danny was handcuffed with Fed-Ex when he bought the team. Still the service is poor and the staff is retarded.

Great.

Any chance at all we can have an actual discussion about the concept of what a pro franchise might "owe" its paying public--an interesting idea worthy of some debate, I'd think--without defaulting right off the bat to the predictable and inflammatory "it sucks" mantra?

[Stophovr6]

Here is the way I see it.

We have actually tried to be a good team. Snyder wants to win just as badly as we do. For the most part I would expect the coaches and the players the feel the same way. No one likes to loose.

I would be more upset if I were a fan of a team like St Louis. I seem to remeber the owner of that team saying they shouldn't try to go to the superbowl every year.

I would be more upset if I didn't think we were actually trying.

[zoony]

means justify the ends, eh Om?

In my view, it owes its paying public one thing, and one thing only: making every reasonable effort to put a winning product on the field.

It was just comment on your post... that the process and effort regardless of outcome is what is important.

I agree for the most part, but at what point do we question those processes and effort based on outcome and outcome only?

A broad brush for sure (outcome only), but one to consider.

[SkinsNut73]

Here is the way I see it.

We have actually tried to be a good team. Snyder wants to win just as badly as we do. For the most part I would expect the coaches and the players the feel the same way. No one likes to loose.

I would be more upset if I were a fan of a team like St Louis. I seem to remeber the owner of that team saying they shouldn't try to go to the superbowl every year.

I would be more upset if I didn't think we were actually trying.

That's kinda what I was going to say....

No one can question the effort the Skins have made in attempting to field a winning team. We can gripe about the results...for sure. But I would say 99.9% of us are quite excited when Dan Snyder was fueling up Redskins One on the eve of free agency every year for the last 5 years. I think we all knew he was going to do whatever it takes to field a winner. Unfortunately that has not panned out yet.

There were/are teams out there who put no effort into winning. If they get a partially filled stadium of fans they are happy...bottom line is all that matters to them.

There may come a time when, after years of failing, you question whether or not they "owe" us something. I'm not sure I'm at that point yet. If we hadn't hired Gibbs back...maybe I'd be there now. But we're only in our 2nd season of rebuilding. I'm not owed anything yet...

...oh, and the stadium staff comment....I've never had a problem. I've always found the people to be quite friendly and generally doing a very good job at what they do. (Edited to add: except for the parking lot folks...if they could actually help direct traffic it would help...but the folks inside the stadium are fine)

[Om]

It was just comment on your post... that the process and effort regardless of outcome is what is important.

I agree for the most part, but at what point do we question those processes and effort based on outcome and outcome only?

A broad brush for sure, but one to consider.

I'm glad I asked then, because I was reading something darker into your comment that shall now go forever unmentioned--at least by me.

We can question the processes all we want. That's a large part of what being an involved fan is all about. But where we may part, at least a bit, is in that I have no "expectations" for success. I WANT it, as much as anyone, but I don't "expect" it or feel it's "owed" me.

I know how incredibly difficult it is to field a consistent winner in the NFL these days. I know how far this franchise had fallen and how far it has left to go. I also know that sometimes you can do a whole lot of the "right things," and fate & cirumstance can still conspire to keep that success from happening as soon as we want it to. When that happens, I believe it's incumbent on the objective fan to recognize that sometimes you can do the "right things," and still not get the right results.

In the case of the 2005 Redskins, despite the lack of empirical evidence of progress people want and expect---wins---fact is I still feel damn good about what they've done since Jaunary 2004, how they've done it, and what I believe they're still trying to do going forward. I think their hearts are in the right place, I think they've got qualified, dedicated people calling the shots, and I think and they're busting their asses trying to translate that into W's, both for themselves and for us.

That's all I will "expect" or feel I am "owed" by my favorite team.

The wins and greater glory I'll hope for. In my book, that's a very different thing.

[zoony]

I'm glad I asked then, because I was reading something darker into your comment that shall now go forever unmentioned--at least by me.

foul! foul!!!! no fair... out with it! this I gotta know.... seriously

In the case of the 2005 Redskins, despite the lack of empirical evidence of progress people want and expect---wins---fact is I still feel damn good about what they've done since Jaunary 2004, how they've done it, and what I believe they're still trying to do going forward. I think their hearts are in the right place, I think they've got qualified, dedicated people calling the shots, and I think and they're busting their asses trying to translate that into W's, both for themselves and for us.

.

ditto that.

and just for the record, I agree with you and SkinsNut, but I reserve the right to disagree if by chance Joe ends up leaving without success and Snyder is still in place.

It is interesting though, isn't it? What is the psychology involved with sports that would allow for the consumer to embrace an inferior product over and over and over? Wouldn't General Motors like to know? "I know this Cadillac Escalade is a POS but I think GM's heart is in the right place, so I'll buy one"

:laugh:

.....

[SkinsNut73]

It is interesting though, isn't it? What is the psychology involved with sports that would allow for the consumer to embrace an inferior product over and over and over? Wouldn't General Motors like to know? "I know this Cadillac Escalade is a POS but I think GM's heart is in the right place, so I'll buy one"

:laugh:

.....

Very interesting point...very interesting...hadn't though of it in that light.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

This is the dilemma of being a sports fan. Unless you are a complete tool, you choose your franchise at age five...usually based on who your dad liked...and you are stuck with them until the day you die.

How many of us really had a chance in choosing the team we root for? I mean, in the real consumer world, none of us would have continuously bought the garbage given us by the Skins over and over and over again. We would all have switched to the Eagles or Patriots or Broncos.

So...in a way...the team does owe the fans. Particularly in this modern era where players have zero loyalty to a fanbase or franchise. I mean, we love Portis now, but we will boo him lustily in three years when he is playing for Dallas (how's that for a predicition).

Basically, fans ARE the team now. That's why all this Redskin Nation, Red Sox Nation, Steeler Nation nonsense has started. And it's also probably why we are slowly edging our way towards British Hooliganism amoung our fans.

So... in one way, the Skins owe us no more than GM does. But in another, they owe us the same that the state owes a prisoner. Or what a husband owes a wife in the Torah. (Not to analogize marriages and prisons). Because we are all trapped in this marriage until we die.

[zoony]

. I mean' date=' we love Portis now, but we will boo him lustily in three years when he is playing for Dallas (how's that for a predicition).

[/quote']

:banhim:

Because we are all trapped in this marriage until we die.

ain't that the truth.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

:banhim:

Would you really bet against that?

ain't that the truth

That's why we are all crazy. I mean, would you stay with a spouse who treated you this way for 13 years?

[G-Prime]

I agree. I miss the days when players played for 2 things.. The love of the game and the fans.. These days it's all about me. I'd like to think our team is better then that, and for the most part I really think they are. It's time for them to start giving back

[HailYeah]

You want to talk about trapped? Check out the national Hurling league in Ireland. Talk about fan loyalty. Each county has a team. So wherever you are born, thats who your team is. Period. If you can play, wherever you are born, thats who you play for. Period. There are good counties and bad counties but either way every team sells out every game every week and the fans cheer their team endlessly.

And here's the kicker: the players dont even get paid! They play for their home county and hold second jobs in factories and on farms. Its all about the glory.

But I dont think their fans ever feeled they are "owed" a winning team.

[zoony]

That's why we are all crazy. I mean' date=' would you stay with a spouse who treated you this way for 13 years?[/quote']

that is funny... when the 'skins lost to the Chargers I said the exact same thing (to my wife, no less). That I had to be crazy to follow this team the way I do... it's like being a glutton for punishment.

[GhostofAlvinWalton]

This is the dilemma of being a sports fan. Unless you are a complete tool' date=' you choose your franchise at age five...usually based on who your dad liked...and you are stuck with them until the day you die.

How many of us really had a chance in choosing the team we root for?

Because we are all trapped in this marriage until we die.[/quote']

I actually chose the Skins as a child. :doh: That's why it hurts so bad when they suck. I had no choice in baseball(mom) & basketball(dad). I had a good run early.... kind of dry lately.

.

[The 12th Commandment]

Seems to me that we owe each other.

The team players, coaches and management owe us the effort and I agree with those who post that it is being provided. But don't they also owe us common sense. ie it took Dan way too long to figure out that he didn't have it figured out. Thankfully that appears to be in past were we should leave it.

We owe the team consistent blind faith, year in year out, win lose or draw. If you can't provide that then you aren't really a fan. This isn't to suggest we can't be dissapointed or po'd, we should be...when justified. But in the end we accept a significant involvment in something we really can't control. And really when something goes your way that you didn't control that adds a whole 'nother dimension to it. Kind of like winning the lottery.

I, for one, love the relationship. And I need to casue it may be the only one I'll have throughout my whole life.