About the Science vs Religion Debate

[HOF44]

btw being offended by something you don't beleive in is not only irrational but insane. beleiving in a god you can't see is called faith

[cakmoney61]

When I was a very young child, I would look up at the sun and I knew in my heart that there was a God...that there was someone much greater than me who made that sun. The sun was literally saying to me, "I have a maker." No one taught me that at home and I wasn't taught it at church because my parents didn't go to church. I simply knew (not thought or hoped) but knew that to be true.

Twenty-something years later I become a Christian and one day I read this in the Bible:

The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of His hands. Day after day they pour forth speech; night after night they display knowledge. There is no speech or language where their voice in not heard. Their voice goes out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world. (Psalms 19:1-4)

So what's the proof of the existence of God? The existence of everything else. That's the scientific proof.

Look around your house. Everything in your house has a maker, a designer, an engineer, an author, a painter, a singer, and on and on. The smallest piece of paper on your desk or floor was made by somebody.

But now I'm supposed to throw logic out of the window and believe that the sun, moon, stars, universes, galaxies, and every living thing on earth doesn't have a maker. That doesn't even make common sense.

It takes more faith to believe there is no God that it takes to believe that there is a God. If there is a God, then all of your questions about how everything began is answered. If there is no God, we are left merely groping in the dark for answers, theories, guesses, and hypothoses.

[HOF44]

When I was a very young child, I would look up at the sun and I knew in my heart that there was a God...that there was someone much greater than me who made that sun. The sun was literally saying to me, "I have a maker." No one taught me that at home and I wasn't taught it at church because my parents didn't go to church. I simply knew (not thought or hoped) but knew that to be true.

Twenty-something years later I become a Christian and one day I read this in the Bible:

The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of His hands. Day after day they pour forth speech; night after night they display knowledge. There is no speech or language where their voice in not heard. Their voice goes out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world. (Psalms 19:1-4)

So what's the proof of the existence of God? The existence of everything else. That's the scientific proof.

Look around your house. Everything in your house has a maker, a designer, an engineer, an author, a painter, a singer, and on and on. The smallest piece of paper on your desk or floor was made by somebody.

But now I'm supposed to throw logic out of the window and believe that the sun, moon, stars, universes, galaxies, and every living thing on earth doesn't have a maker. That doesn't even make common sense.

It takes more faith to believe there is no God that it takes to believe that there is a God. If there is a God, then all of your questions about how everything began is answered. If there is no God, we are left merely groping in the dark for answers, theories, guesses, and hypothoses.

So let me pose this question to the religous extreme on here. What do you think of "religion" versus god? I have much less of a problem with the idea of a god than I do with the pratice of alot of organized religions.

[portisizzle]

why does either one have to beat the other one down? Why can't they be taught together, one as a scientific theory the other as popular thought?

Well, that is the question of the day isn't it?

To be taught, one has to have an open mind. In this case both to science and religion. But school is not the place for religious education. IMO.

[HOF44]

Well, that is the question of the day isn't it?

To be taught, one has to have an open mind. In this case both to science and religion. But school is not the place for religious education. IMO.

Portissizzle,

I have to give you credit, I don't agree with everything you have to say but is is enjoyable exchanging ideas and points of view with you.

[portisizzle]

When I was a very young child, I would look up at the sun and I knew in my heart that there was a God...that there was someone much greater than me who made that sun. The sun was literally saying to me, "I have a maker." No one taught me that at home and I wasn't taught it at church because my parents didn't go to church. I simply knew (not thought or hoped) but knew that to be true.

Twenty-something years later I become a Christian and one day I read this in the Bible:

The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of His hands. Day after day they pour forth speech; night after night they display knowledge. There is no speech or language where their voice in not heard. Their voice goes out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world. (Psalms 19:1-4)

So what's the proof of the existence of God? The existence of everything else. That's the scientific proof.

Look around your house. Everything in your house has a maker, a designer, an engineer, an author, a painter, a singer, and on and on. The smallest piece of paper on your desk or floor was made by somebody.

But now I'm supposed to throw logic out of the window and believe that the sun, moon, stars, universes, galaxies, and every living thing on earth doesn't have a maker. That doesn't even make common sense.

It takes more faith to believe there is no God that it takes to believe that there is a God. If there is a God, then all of your questions about how everything began is answered. If there is no God, we are left merely groping in the dark for answers, theories, guesses, and hypothoses.

Well said.

I had a conversation one time about the shoes on my foot. The person asked me the question as to how that shoe "became"? His answer was to choose from one of the following.

1) That the show with all its materials and organization appeared as such in nature.

2) That the shoe evolved with its multiple components from rubber and leather and glue and became a shoe.

3) That someone created the shoe in an organized fashion.

Clearly the answer is 3). How do we know this? Because the shoe has form, function, and is organized in a predictable way.

"has form, function, and is organized...." ....... Sound familiar anyone?

[70th Week]

school is exactly the place.that is what is wrong with the youth of this country.this country was founded by christian men on christian values.if you dont like it,get out.i bet you wont go to a middle eastern country and discredit allah.you will get shot!!we need to stand up for what this country stands for,not any wind and wave of doctrine.

[rincewind]

Wow. i have to say i've been keeping up with these thread and - i am very proud of all of you. This is the longest i have ever seen a debate thread go on this board with out turning into a mudsling, name-calling arguement.

Way to go!

[portisizzle]

Portissizzle,

I have to give you credit, I don't agree with everything you have to say but is is enjoyable exchanging ideas and points of view with you.

Thanks. I have enjoyed the exchange as well.

[HOF44]

Well said.

I had a conversation one time about the shoes on my foot. The person asked me the question as to how that shoe "became"? His answer was to choose from one of the following.

1) That the show with all its materials and organization appeared as such in nature.

2) That the shoe evolved with its multiple components from rubber and leather and glue and became a shoe.

3) That someone created the shoe in an organized fashion.

Clearly the answer is 3). How do we know this? Because the shoe has form, function, and is organized in a predictable way.

"has form, function, and is organized...." ....... Sound familiar anyone?

My only problem with that is if god created everything because everything has to be created, who created god?

[RabidFan]

for further clarification, 85% of the worlds population believes in intelligent design, why can't we present that option, not necessarily slanted towards on religion or another, but at least allow our students to have a choice otherwise they will all be drones

The option is presented in Church and by the parents and family. Lets say if your number 85% you use is accurate, are you really losing a battle and need to inject it into schools to cover the other 15%??? If so, then you'd theoretically by your argument maybe cover 100% but are against drones??

:laugh: :laugh:

[DarkLadyRaven]

For all those in this thread that want ID taught Why oh why cant you teach it to your kids yourselves or have your church teach it?

[portisizzle]

So let me pose this question to the religous extreme on here. What do you think of "religion" versus god? I have much less of a problem with the idea of a god than I do with the pratice of alot of organized religions.

I do not practice a certain religion. As I see it, how would GOD judge one honest Buddist differently from an honest Catholic? Both are honest, right?

I have to say that our life on Earth IS a test. The test in my mind is not if you choose the right religion. The test is if you can be a good person to yourself, your family, and your community. How do you know if you passed the test? I think before you die, you will know.

And what happens after you die? Science and Religion again will disagree. But if you lived a good honest life, who cares? You will have left this life as a better person, and my faith tells me that will count for something down the road....

[HOF44]

school is exactly the place.that is what is wrong with the youth of this country.this country was founded by christian men on christian values.if you dont like it,get out.i bet you wont go to a middle eastern country and discredit allah.you will get shot!!we need to stand up for what this country stands for,not any wind and wave of doctrine.

The middle east says the same about christians. I postulate this.

I just think organized religion has caused more suffering death and strife in the world than any dictator ever thought about.

It swings back and forth over who is more powerful and who is repressing who, but religions are always at war with one another and both are absolute in their beleif they are right and the others are wrong.

I see god and organized religion as different issues. Believe in god all you want, I even believe he might be there, but most organized religions are about money and control.

[portisizzle]

My only problem with that is if god created everything because everything has to be created, who created god?

Bounce, bounce, bounce.

All I can say is it is scientifically impossible to create something from nothing. To me that means one thing, to you that might mean another.

[portisizzle]

For all those in this thread that want ID taught Why oh why cant you teach it to your kids yourselves or have your church teach it?

I think the consensus here is that ID should not be taught in schools. By the same token evolution should be taught as theory and not fact. And the Big Bang theory should get a mention, but not a two week dissertation.

[dchogs]

why does either one have to beat the other one down? Why can't they be taught together, one as a scientific theory the other as popular thought?

because science class isn't meant for popular thought. it is a science class, so scientific thought is what is important. if you want popular thought, take a sociology class or something.

also, a lot of the problems in this thread are based on popular vs. scientific definitons for the word theory. even though websters says a theory is just a guess, that's now how science defines the word.

[rincewind]

school is exactly the place.that is what is wrong with the youth of this country.this country was founded by christian men on christian values.if you dont like it,get out.i bet you wont go to a middle eastern country and discredit allah.you will get shot!!we need to stand up for what this country stands for,not any wind and wave of doctrine.

yeah, and this country was also founded on certain principles - one of those being the freedom of religion and the freedom of choice.

second, of course you couldn't denounce Allah in the middle east - but that's the middle east, this is america - we can denounce whatever we want. Thank you first amendment.

[DarkLadyRaven]

I think the consensus here is that ID should not be taught in schools. By the same token evolution should be taught as theory and not fact. And the Big Bang theory should get a mention, but not a two week dissertation.

Never taught as fact when I was in high school and only got 30 minitues so whats the problem

[portisizzle]

Never taught as fact when I was in high school and only got 30 minitues so whats the problem

What do you think the problem is?

[gchwood]

The option is presented in Church and by the parents and family. Lets say if your number 85% you use is accurate, are you really losing a battle and need to inject it into schools to cover the other 15%??? If so, then you'd theoretically by your argument maybe cover 100% but are against drones??

:laugh: :laugh:

But why should the 15% dictate society? we live in a democracy (at least in theory, there is that word again) when we let the vast minority control the whole it is not beneficial for the maximum amount of people. than we have an aristocracy, where the people who do not agree with the majority are the leaders and put there will on the majority

[DarkLadyRaven]

What do you think the problem is?

I say there is no problem and the people on this board is creating a false problem when there is none

[portisizzle]

I say there is no problem and the people on this board is creating a false problem when there is none

I do not get it. What false problem is created by this thread?

[gchwood]

because science class isn't meant for popular thought. it is a science class, so scientific thought is what is important. if you want popular thought, take a sociology class or something.

also, a lot of the problems in this thread are based on popular vs. scientific definitons for the word theory. even though websters says a theory is just a guess, that's now how science defines the word.

but if evolution/big bang are required learning in a science class, shouldn't creationism be put in as required learning somewhere in the curriculum. as a popular thought it should be broached not necessarily dwelled on, but mentioned.

for me it is a moot point I am home schooling my son and any future children

[DarkLadyRaven]

I do not get it. What false problem is created by this thread?

That schools are indoctrinating kids to hate religion and God by not teaching ID... I went to public school and they did not teach me to hate relgion. My hypocrit mother did that all on her own