Yomar Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 NY Giants - Sehorn, Peterson and Allen (and Shaun Williams at S) Eagles - Vincent, Taylor, Al Harris and their entire draft class (and Dawkins and Bishop at S) Cowboys - Cowboys got nothing and are going to be stripped naked by our offense (and Woodson and Williams at S) Giants are going to be very good in the secondary. Peterson intercepted one today and he has all the physical skills in the world. Allen is an ideal NFC East CB, he is athletic enough but his biggest asset is his toughness. Sehorn sucks, the guy probably keeps a mirror in his back pocket, but when he is healthy, he can play. Shaun Williams is as talented a player in my opinion as Roy Williams. For the Giants sake, they should stick him at SS instead of keeping him at FS and leave him there for a long time. The Giants have a nice secondary, they recognized the need last year when they took Allen and Peterson, probably in large part with an eye on the Rams, and now those picks should start to pay off for them. They also have as good a DLine as you are likely to find, so they should be tough and the games should be a lot of fun. Eagles have a good secondary, but I've never been a huge Bobby Taylor fan and Troy Vincent is starting to slip a little I think, although he should be good for a few more years. Dawkins is a beast and Bishop can support the run. Lito Sheppard should be good, but he will get burned a few times this year. I actually think the Skins matchup pretty well against the Eagles D, with the one exception of whomever is lined up against Corey Simon. I will be interested to see if they lost any toughness when they lost Trotter. The Eagles were another team that stocked up with an eye on the Rams, but these guys will come more in handy now the SS has entered the fray. I don't know much of anything about the other two DBs they picked, but I respect their eye for talent (D. Burgess was a great pick last year in the 3rd) so I wouldn't be surprised if one of those guys stepped up down the road. The Eagles are the team with the target on their back this year, and they are hardly invulnerable. The Cowboys corners are mediocre at best. And they don't have much depth, Spurrier should be able to hold their feet to the fire. I know its early, but I think you can take it to the bank that the Cowboys will be selecting a corner in next year's draft in at least one of the first two rounds. Yeah the safeties are awesome, but thats like building a house and starting with the roof. And of course we all know who has the best CBs in the league. We have CBs for days and days, and the Rams/Skins game may very well be the best game on the NFL schedule this season. Spurrier doesn't get to face them unfortunately, that would be a classic matchup, but least they get to practice together. After practicing against Smoot, Bailey, Green and Bauman this training camp, SS and the passing game will be in top form (if it isn't already) and ready for battle. It should be interesting, the NFC East seems to be undergoing a transformation of sorts from running between the tackles and defense to a more wide open game. Rumor has it that Andy Reid brought the West Coast offense with him to Philly, although all I've seen is the Donovan McNabb one man show. Payton in NY is a solid OC. Payton has a tendency to get cute with his playcalling I think, but when it works it produces points. Like with the corner backs, Dallas seems a little behind in the game with old man Coslett running the O, and I have far more questions about their QB situation than I do about the Skins, even though I do still have some questions about our QBs. Dallas does have three very talented WRs with some killer speed though. Should be a fun season in the wild and wooly NFC East this year. And while they never harmed a fly, I am glad Arizona is gone...its a better division without them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 You lost me when you suggested Shaun Williams is as good as Roy Williams... :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yomar Posted August 6, 2002 Author Share Posted August 6, 2002 did I have you at hello? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen-like Todd Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 Well, if I had to put together a team today, to play ONE game, right now, I'd pick Shaun Williams over Roy Williams, no question in my mind. Shaun Williams is a very very good player. Roy Williams will probably be a great player, but rookie DBs are usually beaten like a drum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 Cornerback is likely Dallas' biggest question on defense. Though, don't overlook Mario Edwards. He had a solid year last year, and many within the organization look at him as the most improved player on the squad. I think if there's a "surprise" player on this team, he's the early leading candidate. He should have had about 4 picks last season -- one he clearly had but the refs blew the call, and the others he just dropped. If anything, he needs to work on his hands to make those plays in the future -- the difference between an INT and simply a deflected pass can sometimes be the difference in a ballgame. But my point is he was often in position to make plays... I'm hopeful Westbrook returns to form, though I'm skeptical. He's having no problems as far as his health goes, though Galloway and Ismail have gotten the better of him on multiple occasions. His true test will come when opposing receivers are coming his way in the preseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 TCO, this argument is similar to the ones being made by Cowboys fans when LaVar Arrington was drafted. Some stated they'd rather take Dexter Coakley over Arrington because he's proven he can play high at this level where as Arrington hadn't. Of course, I think anyone outside of Dallas would have clearly taken Arrington because of the tremendous upside. The comparison between Shaun and Roy Williams, while not completely the same, is similar. I'd dare say nearly anyone in this league would rather have Roy Williams even if he's beaten a little more this year. Has Shaun Williams even been to a Pro Bowl yet (I'm asking, not saying that as a rhetorical question...)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laurent Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 ...and Arrington proved he belongs. Unless Roy Williams proves that he is indeed the kind of player Dallas fans hope he is going to be I'll go with Shaun Williams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrangeSkin Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 I don't think anybody is afraid of Mario Edwards yet. It's pretty much a tradeoff with us and the 'Pokes. We have a question mark in the interior O-line, and you have a big question mark in the secondary. I'm afraid Laroi Glover will be all over our QB before he can even get the ball off. But if he does, you guys are in deep $hit. Westbrook looks like a Mercedes but runs like a Jaguar (always breaking down), and Edwards won't be able to handle what's thrown at him. As far as Williams vs. Williams go, I'd take Roy Williams. Shaun is a proven commodity, but that's not neccessarily a positive. It appears as though he's peaked, but Roy has unlimitied potential and is clearly the better prospect than Shaun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 Laurent: So you're telling me that if I had stated, 3 weeks prior to the season of Arrington's rookie season, that Dexter Coakley were the better player and I'd rather take him than Arrington -- you would have casually replied that I was correct in that assessment and you'd do the same? I highly doubt that. Every player in the draft must prove themselves first, that is true. But some players -- Arrington, Roy Williams, etc -- are simply too good to just castoff as 'another rookie'. We'll see in due time though, I suppose. You can have Shaun Williams on your defense and I'll gladly take Roy and we'll see who has the better player in a few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 Originally posted by OrangeSkin I don't think anybody is afraid of Mario Edwards yet. It's pretty much a tradeoff with us and the 'Pokes. We have a question mark in the interior O-line, and you have a big question mark in the secondary. I'm afraid Laroi Glover will be all over our QB before he can even get the ball off. But if he does, you guys are in deep $hit. Westbrook looks like a Mercedes but runs like a Jaguar (always breaking down), and Edwards won't be able to handle what's thrown at him. I don't disagree with ya Orangeskin. Our corners must prove they belong and can keep up in this league. But, do recall that last year's pass defense -- with Edwards and Hawthorne -- faired pretty well. Edwards really never gave up any big plays despite being tested; Hawthorne was the weak link and is now hovering around as the 5th corner on the depth chart. I'm a little more upbeat about Edwards than you are. Based on what he showed last year, and the improvement he's made this offseason, I think he can be a legit starting corner in this league. In Bailey's or Smoot's class? No, but I think he'll still do well. I'm also 'hoping' Westbrook holds up. By holding up I mean that he shows he's still talented more than I mean he stays healthy -- I'm more worried about seeing him making plays than holding up in terms of health at this stage. But just like with your interior line where you are hoping players like Larry Moore can hold up, we're certainly hoping he'll do the job. And, if Glover, Ellis, Hardy and the likes do their jobs -- the jobs of our corners will be that much easier as you said. But I certainly wish we were in a situation like you all are in with Bailey and Smoot; certainly a dream scenario going on there at corner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golgo-13 Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 "did I have you at hello?" :rotflmao: :rotflmao: That was funny as hell, man!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom [Giants fan] Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 Shaun Williams has peaked? At age 25? Wow, you get old fast these days. There is no room for improvement in his game at the age of 25? I kind of doubt that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen-like Todd Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 Some stated they'd rather take Dexter Coakley over Arrington because he's proven he can play high at this level where as Arrington hadn't. Woaaaahh... don't lump me in with idiot cowboy fans. I never said if I was given the opportunity I wouldnt draft Roy Williams ahead of Shaun Williams. I simply said, given one game, right now, I'd certainly start Shaun Williams. Big difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 Dale, brother, no offense, but no fan of a team with Greg Ellis and Ebenezer Ekuban at defensive end should readily adopt corner as a weak point on the defense unless it's a clearly awful spot. Yours may be if Westbrook isn't healthy, but, it's not sure right now. Do you think it is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrangeSkin Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 OK, Tom. You caught me. He hasn't peaked, but it certainly appears that Roy has a lot more potential than him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlito Sway Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 I'll take the Eagles DBs over Giants DBs any day. One of those picks (not sure if it was the one cited) came when Gaffney fell down and Carr kept opn throwing. Plus, we don't have any idea how good the Giants secondary will be, because of the complete overhaul in coaching after Foxy left. I know (Johnny Lynn? Is that right?) was the Jets DB coach, and they did well, but they also had great young corners. I'm not sold on Peterson. Allen, OK, that guy's legit. He has closing speed like a mother. But the Eagles DBs are ballhawks, are backed up with great safeties (especially adding Bishop in the offseason) and are far scarier than the G Men to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 Art, I expect big things out of Greg Ellis this season. He's been an underrated player in Dallas who has quietly been one of the best defenders we have, especially against the run. With Glover playing alongside him, as Ellis put it the other day, he only prays teams will start doubling Glover instead of him. Expect his sack totals to really rise this season. Ekuban seems to be a backup for us at this point, behind Peppi Zellner who has beefed up to about 283 and is really putting on a show in camp. I don't consider Ellis a weakness whatsoever, if anything I view him as a strength. The Ekuban/Zellner combination needs to prove themselves, agreed, but I'm not too worried there really. Every team has areas where they must "prove" themselves. Young players starting at areas that appear to be solid, but it just needs to be shown on the field -- I'd suppose a guy like Roy Williams would also fall into this category. I'd also lump our defensive ends here. Ellis is a stud IMHO, but the other DEs do need to prove the "potential" on the field. We'll see how it pans out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smith22 Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 How on Earth anyone thinks that the Giants have a better secondary than the Eagles is beyond me. The Eagles secondary is just nasty, and they added more guys in the draft. The Skins and Eagles have the best corners in the division. The Skins have the worst safeties in the division. I also wouldn't say the Cowboys have no depth at CB this year. Last year yes, this year no. One of our starting corners from last year is now coming off the bench (Hawthorne), and we added Westbrook, Ross and Hunter. The Cowboys still have question marks at corner, but I think our front 7 and our starting safeties will help offset any problems that we may have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smith22 Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 Originally posted by Dale Art, I expect big things out of Greg Ellis this season. He's been an underrated player in Dallas who has quietly been one of the best defenders we have, especially against the run. With Glover playing alongside him, as Ellis put it the other day, he only prays teams will start doubling Glover instead of him. Expect his sack totals to really rise this season. Ekuban seems to be a backup for us at this point, behind Peppi Zellner who has beefed up to about 283 and is really putting on a show in camp. I don't consider Ellis a weakness whatsoever, if anything I view him as a strength. The Ekuban/Zellner combination needs to prove themselves, agreed, but I'm not too worried there really. Every team has areas where they must "prove" themselves. Young players starting at areas that appear to be solid, but it just needs to be shown on the field -- I'd suppose a guy like Roy Williams would also fall into this category. I'd also lump our defensive ends here. Ellis is a stud IMHO, but the other DEs do need to prove the "potential" on the field. We'll see how it pans out. I would take G. Ellis over an ancient Bruce Smith and R. Wynn any day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamebreaker Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 Originally posted by smith22 The Skins and Eagles have the best corners in the division. I slightly disagree, the Skins have a better corner tandem than the Eagles. Champ or Smoot would be #1 on their depth chart. The only team in the league that can challenge our corners in terms of skill and talent are the Dolphins, Madison and Surtain are bad @$$. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yomar Posted August 6, 2002 Author Share Posted August 6, 2002 Ross is the X-factor at CB for Dallas... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smith22 Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 Originally posted by Yomar Ross is the X-factor at CB for Dallas... True. I'm looking for Ross to have an impact next year more so than this year. He missed basically all of our camps before training camp due to Ohio St. finishing their semester much later than other colleges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawn Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 sorry to burst your bubbles but Ellis and Ekuban and Zellner are way better than any DE's on the skins roster. I mean a 39 year old smith...come on.....smith has been ground meat for a few years now and you guys are holding on to what? give me a break, this is just way too m funny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty dread Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 Remember when the Eagles loaded up on DB's in the 2002 draft, and everyone was like, why when they already have a great secondary? Well I guess after seeing the Skins on Saturday night, we can now understand why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 Originally posted by shawn sorry to burst your bubbles but Ellis and Ekuban and Zellner are way better than any DE's on the skins roster. I mean a 39 year old smith...come on.....smith has been ground meat for a few years now and you guys are holding on to what? give me a break, this is just way too m funny I guess if you compare Burce Smith at 39 to Bruce Smith at 29 then yes, he's ground meat. Same could be said, however, about another once-great but now over-the-hill Smith. Sure those guys don't play like they used to. Doesn't mean those guys can't still play at all. Right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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