twa Posted October 15, 2005 Share Posted October 15, 2005 I think modern escapism in our western eshatolgical view called the "pre"trib rapture is one of the biggest hinderences to the gospel in the western world. Apostolic Post Millennialism is the way to go. There are no veres in the bible that suport a "pretrib" rapture... you have to stretch to find it.Without a doubt we will go through the tribulation, America as we know it will be shaken, and I will not even being to discuss what will happen to Jews again, and I am saddened by it.... and I believe we are in the birth "pangs" now(matt 24). I love the book of revelation, and it is a part of my deep studies. What no support for Mid-trib? I think we all would be better off concerning ourselves with our daily lives than investing too much in speculation on the end time OR Wrestling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airborneskins Posted October 15, 2005 Share Posted October 15, 2005 No, No, No.. You guys got it all wrong.. You forgot about these 4 Horsemen.. In honor of the Big Game in South Bend today.. GO IRISH!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
autographcollector Posted October 15, 2005 Share Posted October 15, 2005 Gotta go with Zguy on this. I've done countless hours of research on the Four Horsemen, and there is no reason it can't be those four. Conquest, War, Famine, and death. Given our state of world affairs, the apoaclypse is likely sooner than we think. People sometimes forget that the four horseman do not have to be personified. For example. conquest, the first horseman, could very well be propaganda at it's simplest form. With the rising global nuclear threat, it's not hard to believe an ultimate battle, a judgement if you will, will happen.Keep in mind the dates December 21st -23rd, 2012. The 3 days of darkness. I'm sure some of you have heard it. This is predicted by the Mayan calendar, which has been proven accurate over a thousand years now. Their calendar is broken down into 52 year cycles. The Aztecs used this calendar and prophesized their own demise after 4 cycles, or 208 years. They were only one year off, when the Spanish came and destroyed them. In the Mayan calendar, December 21, 2012 is the end of the cycle of this world and the beginning of the earth anew. And this isn't b.s., look it up yourself. Observe the 52 year cycles and the world events that corresponded when the cycles began and ended. Just google the terms "Mayan 2012" or "December 21, 2012" and you'll get a million hits. A lot of it is new-age junk, so you have to dig through a lot of crap to find the facts. Better yet just google "FREAKS" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselPwr44 Posted October 15, 2005 Share Posted October 15, 2005 Don't forget: "All the ladies want to ride...Space Mountain!!! Woooooooooo!!!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70th Week Posted October 15, 2005 Share Posted October 15, 2005 no support for pre-tribulation? try rev.4 where he tells john "come up hither"and i will show you all these things which happen afterwards.he speaks to the churches in rev.1-3 but after he says "come up hither" the church is'nt mentioned anymore thruout the book of revelation. w'ell be gone.read it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaddogCT Posted October 15, 2005 Share Posted October 15, 2005 Point to ponder: Mathew 24:35-36 "Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words shall not pass away. But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone." :logo: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuji869 Posted October 15, 2005 Share Posted October 15, 2005 Myself being a God believing Christian all I have to say is only one knows when the End of the World will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosperity Posted October 15, 2005 Share Posted October 15, 2005 Lunatics have been professing the coming of the apocalypse for hundreds of years, what makes you any less wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prophet Posted October 15, 2005 Share Posted October 15, 2005 Actually, you guys are partly write, and partly wrong. No one can know the day or hour, which must mean a sudden, unexpected departure. This cannont be true, as the apostles themselves understood that there would be signs and events that they would be able to use to mark the season change that would mark His coming. No one can know the day or the hour, but Jesus Himself made clear that we could (and should) know the season, or generation of His return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prophet Posted October 15, 2005 Share Posted October 15, 2005 Lunatics have been professing the coming of the apocalypse for hundreds of years, what makes you any less wrong? predicted biblical events that have happened... and that are clearly soon to happen for one makes us less wrong..... You can not deny what It has predicted, and has already happened. There will be no rapture until every word predicted comes to pass though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted October 15, 2005 Share Posted October 15, 2005 And besides, doesn't Revelations clearly state that Notre Dame will win another national championship? We've still got a while... ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prophet Posted October 15, 2005 Share Posted October 15, 2005 no support for pre-tribulation? try rev.4 where he tells john "come up hither"and i will show you all these things which happen afterwards.he speaks to the churches in rev.1-3 but after he says "come up hither" the church is'nt mentioned anymore thruout the book of revelation. w'ell be gone.read it. Rev 4 read in context clearly is talking about when He says "after this" is refering to (after the letters to the church are written), I want to show you something else. The bible does not support ptr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prophet Posted October 15, 2005 Share Posted October 15, 2005 And besides, doesn't Revelations clearly state that Notre Dame will win another national championship? We've still got a while... ...... maybe during the millennial kingdom they will when it... :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosperity Posted October 15, 2005 Share Posted October 15, 2005 predicted biblical events that have happened... and that are clearly soon to happen for one makes us less wrong..... You can not deny what It has predicted, and has already happened. There will be no rapture until every word predicted comes to pass though... Actually I can deny what it has "predicted", because they are either too vague or not good enough to pass off as anything other than a coincidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nelms Posted October 15, 2005 Share Posted October 15, 2005 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatGuy Posted October 15, 2005 Share Posted October 15, 2005 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/20/4_Horsemen_1991.jpg/180px-4_Horsemen_1991.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prophet Posted October 15, 2005 Share Posted October 15, 2005 Actually I can deny what it has "predicted", because they are either too vague or not good enough to pass off as anything other than a coincidence. You can deny that winter is cold in alaska to... that doesn't mean it isn't. If you choose to be on the wrong side of the stick thats your choice. Like I said before there is undeniable proof in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosperity Posted October 15, 2005 Share Posted October 15, 2005 You can deny that winter is cold in alaska to... that doesn't mean it isn't.If you choose to be on the wrong side of the stick thats your choice. Like I said before there is undeniable proof in it. ummm, you can claim there is undeniable proof of whatever you want. Actually presenting undeniable proof is something else, something you will not be able to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDoyler23 Posted October 15, 2005 Share Posted October 15, 2005 What about Metallica? Great song Kill 'EM All Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prophet Posted October 16, 2005 Share Posted October 16, 2005 ummm, you can claim there is undeniable proof of whatever you want. Actually presenting undeniable proof is something else, something you will not be able to do. Facts are facts wether you choose to see them or not. I can't teach the blind to see... so there is not point to discuss this with you. You might actually find out if it "actually predicts things or not". If you find something, and want to debate it fine..., but coming with baseless denial is weak. Otherwise just keep with your flow... we will see soon enough what happens! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sith lord Posted October 16, 2005 Share Posted October 16, 2005 Yeah, I have some of that on VHS. 6:05 Saturday nights will never be the same. Brings back a lot of memories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70th Week Posted October 17, 2005 Share Posted October 17, 2005 Rev 4 read in context clearly is talking about when He says "after this" is refering to (after the letters to the church are written), I want to show you something else. The bible does not support ptr yes the bible does support ptr.luke 24 says watch therefore and count yourself worthy to "escape" all these things that must happen(tribulation).and He also says that He has not appointed us to wrath in 1 Thess. Have you read Rev.? There are going to be some bad things going on in the tribulation and i don't beleive i will be here. :helmet: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zguy28 Posted October 17, 2005 Author Share Posted October 17, 2005 The whole notion of Pretribulation and Rapture of the church is more or less dependent on whether or not the letters to the church are interpreted as a timeline of the church ages. As the letters progress, clearly it can be seen that the warnings are becoming more urgent from the Lord Jesus that the world needs to repent and put their faith in Jesus to save them. Rev 2:5 - Remember the height from which you have fallen! Repent and do the things you did at first. If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place. Rev 2:16 - Repent therefore! Otherwise, I will soon come to you and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth. Rev 3:2-3 - Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have not found your deeds complete in the sight of my God. Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; obey it, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you. Rev 3:10-11 - Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world to test those who live on the earth. I am coming soon. Hold on to what you have, so that no one will take your crown. (Is this the rapture?) Rev 3:19-20 - Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest, and repent. Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him, and he with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prophet Posted October 17, 2005 Share Posted October 17, 2005 Rev 4 read in context clearly is talking about when He says "after this" is refering to (after the letters to the church are written), I want to show you something else.The bible does not support ptr yes the bible does support ptr.luke 24 says watch therefore and count yourself worthy to "escape" all these things that must happen(tribulation).and He also says that He has not appointed us to wrath in 1 Thess. Have you read Rev.? There are going to be some bad things going on in the tribulation and i don't beleive i will be here. :helmet: luke 24? doesn't say anything to what you are refering to. Yes i've read Rev... and over and over again it says nothing about christians not going through it. Matt 24 "Then they will deliver you up to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations on account of My name" (verse 9). "For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever shall" (verse 21). "But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken, and then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory" (verses 29-30). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosperity Posted October 17, 2005 Share Posted October 17, 2005 Facts are facts wether you choose to see them or not. I can't teach the blind to see... so there is not point to discuss this with you. You might actually find out if it "actually predicts things or not". If you find something, and want to debate it fine..., but coming with baseless denial is weak. Otherwise just keep with your flow... we will see soon enough what happens! Baseles denial is weak? WTF! There is not such thing as baseless denial unless there is evidence. Baseless allegations are infinitely worse. You have no proof so you have faith, and that my dear man is not going to cut it. Also we will not know what happens, we will keep on living until we don't and after that it is anyone's guess, but the nothing seems like the most logical situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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