Fergasun Posted September 18, 2005 Share Posted September 18, 2005 I've been watching tape of the Kansas City Chiefs vs. New York Jets from Week 1. The way the Joe Gibbs has this offense designed reminds me of the Chiefs. They run a few bread and butter run plays with great execution (Holmes/Johnson Toss Left, Holmes/Johnson Toss Right) , they have a strong offensive line, a good pass catching TE, and no name WRs. The glaring hole in this comparison is QB play. Trent Green is accurate, makes excellent decisions, and somewhat elusive. It doesn't appear that he has a great gun of an arm. If (a huge one) we can find a QB who is able to run the Gibbs offense like Green runs that offense, I think we'd be in great shape. The second obvious difference is that the Chiefs offense has been playing together since 2002. Given time and good QB play, I believe our offense will be able to execute in that manner. I remember the Skin's rolling up the score on teams during the Gibb's tenure in the 90's... Again, the premise is that the Chiefs don't run too many different run plays, have good offensive line play, great TE, and no name WRs... what brings them up to another level is their execution, which I believe is due to continuity. If we can find a QB to run the Gibbs offense effectively, I see the Redskins getting similar results... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ_Skins Posted September 18, 2005 Share Posted September 18, 2005 It is a similar "Air Coryell" system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smalczak Posted September 18, 2005 Share Posted September 18, 2005 Once upon a time, we HAD Green to run the offense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pR0JEkT 21 Posted September 18, 2005 Share Posted September 18, 2005 Once upon a time, we HAD Green to run the offense Yes we did its too bad that we let him go, hope the same thing doesnt happen with Ramsy. He blows a$$ here in D.C, but then becomes a super star for another team in the NFL, that would really suck for us. I would not be a happy camper.. ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinzelwashington Posted September 18, 2005 Share Posted September 18, 2005 like i said in a few threads..its not about how strong PR's arm is.. its about accuracy. accuracy is consistency. consistency is efficient.. efficient is a high q/b rating.. a high q/b rating is a rhythm. a rhythm is what we need on offense.. how can we get into a rhythm when theres always a turnover every 2 posession??? redskins staff needs to stick to one q/b and catch that rhythm.. with our d already proven, a rhythm on O will take us to the promise land.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fergasun Posted September 18, 2005 Author Share Posted September 18, 2005 Once upon a time, we HAD Green to run the offense Yeah, well Martz took him to St. Louis when he went there... can someone tell me why we were so eager for him to leave? From looking at his stats (24 TD, 12 Int) it would seem we would try to keep him. I see Washington him a 4 year 12 million dollar deal when he hit the open market, I also see he is a St. Louis native, and now I see that St. Louis signed him to a 4 year, 16.5 million dollar offer. I also see we traded a 1st, 3rd, and future 2nd to the Vikings for Brad Johnson. Maybe it would've been better to match Trent Green's Rams deal... (I guess this belongs in the "How come we've been rebuilding since Snyder" thread). I find this all pretty interesting... I'm sure after we went to the playoffs we were stoked, but then 2000 hit, Brad Johnson sucked and there were no viable options behind him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smalczak Posted September 18, 2005 Share Posted September 18, 2005 I'm a little fuzzy on the exact events, but wasnt he lost in the ownership change fiasco? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted September 18, 2005 Share Posted September 18, 2005 I'm a little fuzzy on the exact events, but wasnt he lost in the ownership change fiasco? Yes, the league froze everything, and we couldn't make any moves till the last minute. By then it was too late. The glaring hole in this comparison is QB play. Trent Green is accurate, makes excellent decisions, and somewhat elusive.[/Quote]Maybe, just maybe we don't actually have a glaring hole there. All fingers are crossed................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ_Skins Posted September 18, 2005 Share Posted September 18, 2005 like i said in a few threads..its not about how strong PR's arm is.. its about accuracy. accuracy is consistency. consistency is efficient.. efficient is a high q/b rating.. a high q/b rating is a rhythm. a rhythm is what we need on offense.. how can we get into a rhythm when theres always a turnover every 2 posession??? redskins staff needs to stick to one q/b and catch that rhythm.. with our d already proven, a rhythm on O will take us to the promise land.... Last year, Ramsey's completion percentage was 65%. Brunell's was 48%. What was that about accuracy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrockster21 Posted September 18, 2005 Share Posted September 18, 2005 Last year, Ramsey's completion percentage was 65%. Brunell's was 48%. What was that about accuracy? It doesn't help your argument when you make stats up, AJ.... Ramsey's percentage was 62.1 last year, and Brunell's was 49.8. Ramsey also threw 11 picks to Brunell's 6. A lot of Brunell's inaccuracy stemmed from his hamstring injury and his elbow injury. He's healthier, more accurate now. If AJ wants to be spoon-fed his info from the media, then let him. But Fergusan, that is good analysis. We are going to have the steady QB play we need from Brunell. Just wait and see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Posted September 18, 2005 Share Posted September 18, 2005 It doesn't help your argument when you make stats up, If AJ wants to be spoon-fed his info from the media, then let him. . You know, zoony had to apologize to me for saying something like this. I've watched your changes on this issue develop. I don't think it's fair to point that finger at others, when say what you want to say, the most prominent 'antis' are the most thoughtful and original on this subject. I'd put Stormy up against anything Om or ARt has written on this subject and AJ has done a good job too(i'll recuse myself from judging my own work.) Disagree all you want, but it's the height of arrogance to accuse people who arrived at their own beliefs via thought, observation and 'gut feeling' of getting their info second-hand when the only side that even remotely sounds spoon-fed in this debate is the droning horde of "Gibbs is right--wait, what did he say? Well, whatever he said--yeah, that!" That Brunell thread last year must have been based on spoon-fed media info, eh? (that's not a flame, that's just me saying you shouldn't go down THAT particular road with people who haven't shown they are guilty of it. On this board, we're spoonfed whatever the media says--go AGAINST that, even when they're right.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Full Monty Posted September 18, 2005 Share Posted September 18, 2005 The Chiefs don't have just a "good" offensive line. They have the BEST offensive line in the entire league. They create truck-wide holes on a consistent basis. On any highlight of a Chiefs running play that they show on TV, I want you to check look around at the offensive linemen, they are always blocking way downfield and getting to the second level. It's insane the level of cohesion they have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveP666 Posted September 18, 2005 Share Posted September 18, 2005 Funny how we can now use Trent Green as a good comparison. We should have kept him years ago. Same with Brad Johnson. Both better QB's and we let them go. I'm not sure if Trent Green is better actually? He just played on 2 great offensive teams (the Rams and now the chiefs). Good luck to Patrick, whatever happens. I just want the skins to win and so should he. :helmet: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostofAlvinWalton Posted September 18, 2005 Share Posted September 18, 2005 Yes, the league froze everything, and we couldn't make any moves till the last minute. By then it was too late.Maybe, just maybe we don't actually have a glaring hole there. All fingers are crossed................ Pete, I think you might be using a little to much of your own produce there! Get Weir'd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted September 18, 2005 Share Posted September 18, 2005 I'm not big on individual stats. Here's an example of why I'm not: In 2002, Mark Brunell started 15 gsames for the Jags and finished the year with an 85.7 QB rating ....yet his team ranked 26th in passing yardage and finished 6 - 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THEHEREAFTER Posted September 18, 2005 Share Posted September 18, 2005 I've been watching tape of the Kansas City Chiefs vs. New York Jets from Week 1. The way the Joe Gibbs has this offense designed reminds me of the Chiefs. They run a few bread and butter run plays with great execution (Holmes/Johnson Toss Left, Holmes/Johnson Toss Right) , they have a strong offensive line, a good pass catching TE, and no name WRs. The glaring hole in this comparison is QB play. Trent Green is accurate, makes excellent decisions, and somewhat elusive. It doesn't appear that he has a great gun of an arm. If (a huge one) we can find a QB who is able to run the Gibbs offense like Green runs that offense, I think we'd be in great shape. The second obvious difference is that the Chiefs offense has been playing together since 2002. Given time and good QB play, I believe our offense will be able to execute in that manner. I remember the Skin's rolling up the score on teams during the Gibb's tenure in the 90's... Again, the premise is that the Chiefs don't run too many different run plays, have good offensive line play, great TE, and no name WRs... what brings them up to another level is their execution, which I believe is due to continuity. If we can find a QB to run the Gibbs offense effectively, I see the Redskins getting similar results... You guys are Indy minus Manning, N.E. minus Brady (this was actually a post on this board) etc. etc..etc. skins fans are fun.. :applause: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
autographcollector Posted September 18, 2005 Share Posted September 18, 2005 Once upon a time, we HAD Green to run the offense I know this was answered later in the thread, but I have to respond because people have such a short memory. Trent Green was NOT an option to be resigned. Redskins were owned at that point by the estate of Jack Kent Cooke and we were unable to sign him to a large contract. Trent would have been our QB instead of Brad Johnson had Mr. Cooke not died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
autographcollector Posted September 18, 2005 Share Posted September 18, 2005 Funny how we can now use Trent Green as a good comparison. We should have kept him years ago. Same with Brad Johnson. Both better QB's and we let them go. I'm not sure if Trent Green is better actually? He just played on 2 great offensive teams (the Rams and now the chiefs). Good luck to Patrick, whatever happens. I just want the skins to win and so should he. :helmet: Trent Green was an awesome QB back then. As to the history read my previous post. As far as Brad Johnson...he had one good year here but sucked after that and never accepted blame for some of his throws. I know he got a ring in Tampa but it wasn't because of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sisko Posted September 18, 2005 Share Posted September 18, 2005 Great posts Nibbs and Oldfan. I love Gibbs as much as the next guy and I still say as far as I'm concerned he can coach the Skins to 0-16 seasons for as long as he wants...seriously. However, all the "Sieg...Heil! Gibbs" stuff just isn't a valid reason in my book as to why we're going to do any better than 8-8 this season....and that's the optimistic view at this point. As for QB ratings, Oldfan is right. It can be very misleading. Because it overweights completion pct. it allows a QB like the courageous Brunell to complete a lot of dink and dunk stuff, lose the game and still have a high QB rating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawgjk9 Posted September 18, 2005 Share Posted September 18, 2005 true, we should kept trent green but the fact of the matter is that we dont have him anymor, we have jason cmapbell as our future and mark brunell for now, hope fuly we can just win some darn football games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-Prime Posted September 18, 2005 Share Posted September 18, 2005 I have this memory of green.. It was his rookie season. Gus and Heath both in their second or third seasons(I don't remember their details). But it was a scrimmage against the Steelers. While all eyes were on Gus and Shuler the Green came in and lit it up. The commentator said "Whoaa the rookie is saying, Don't forget about me". That's always stuck with me for some reason. It would sure as hell be nice to say Campbell is the QB of the future whenever Green decides to hang it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowboylifer Posted September 18, 2005 Share Posted September 18, 2005 ramsey is a pretty good q.b. and will probably be a starter and may fare better with another team. some q.b.s play different with different systems. i would think that most q.b.s would love to play in the skins system as they love to throw downfield. skins have had some mediocre q.b.s over the years that still yet prospered in their system. and theyve had some to prosper better on other teams. with the redskin style of offense the past few years i think they should try to pick up a strong armed bledsoe type q.b..but with their workmanlike ball control offense here lately they need only to find some one consistent. brunell may fill this spot for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowboylifer Posted September 18, 2005 Share Posted September 18, 2005 redskins offense reminds me of playing pop warner. in columbia md. no consistency. no q.b. a running back that made things happen on his own. but everyone played hard.and thought we could make the playoffs.and our coach didnt know the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamSneed36 Posted September 18, 2005 Share Posted September 18, 2005 Too Bad We Dont Still Have Trent Green Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FootballGuy2677 Posted September 18, 2005 Share Posted September 18, 2005 I've been watching tape of the Kansas City Chiefs vs. New York Jets from Week 1. The way the Joe Gibbs has this offense designed reminds me of the Chiefs. They run a few bread and butter run plays with great execution (Holmes/Johnson Toss Left, Holmes/Johnson Toss Right) , they have a strong offensive line, a good pass catching TE, and no name WRs. The glaring hole in this comparison is QB play. Trent Green is accurate, makes excellent decisions, and somewhat elusive. It doesn't appear that he has a great gun of an arm. If (a huge one) we can find a QB who is able to run the Gibbs offense like Green runs that offense, I think we'd be in great shape. The second obvious difference is that the Chiefs offense has been playing together since 2002. Given time and good QB play, I believe our offense will be able to execute in that manner. I remember the Skin's rolling up the score on teams during the Gibb's tenure in the 90's... Again, the premise is that the Chiefs don't run too many different run plays, have good offensive line play, great TE, and no name WRs... what brings them up to another level is their execution, which I believe is due to continuity. If we can find a QB to run the Gibbs offense effectively, I see the Redskins getting similar results... Might be becuase that dick vermiel and joe gibbs used those offences back in the day:silly: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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