wit33

Curious about a scout's analysis: remarkable pocket movement, yet it seems Mayes stuck to his initial read, which fortunately resulted in a beautiful play as the wide receiver found open space. Is there more value in pocket manipulation with multiple reads, or does that receive different credit? Not coming at this sideways, intrigued to learn more if anyone has any scouting background. Listening in, it sounded like a bunch of cliché answers, with the coach avoiding anything negative. While he does come off as quite shy and introverted, as you somewhat pointed out, there's a noticeable surge of energy and joy when he's on the field. On a side note, but relevant to leadership through play: I appreciate elite dual-threat ability for its unique capacity to capture momentum and energy in games via low-risk, high-reward actions such as running the football to gain yards.

Feeling perplexed; while following this thread, there appears to be similar, if not slightly more, support for Maye compared to Daniel's, yet the tone from some suggests otherwise. The seasoned individuals here seem to lean towards Maye. My assumption is that supporters for Daniels are 20 years younger or so than those for Maye lol 😂 For scorekeeping purposes, I qualify as an old head these days. lol

How crazy is this really? Any comparative analysis provided?

Imagine supporting a family as a slide coach is fantastic and increasingly essential, especially with the growing trend of quarterbacks relying on backyard football skills, agility and running. Disappointed that Jayden Daniels lacks a baseball history for sliding and exploring unique arm angles. I appreciate the concept of having an elite dual-threat player who can both navigate the field effectively (being taller) and maintain a smooth delivery. Typically, elite dual-threat athletes are smaller and struggle with inconsistent throwing motions, hindering their ability to establish early rhythm in an offense with their arms.

Injuries are part of the game. In the same draft class, we witnessed Andrew Luck retiring before RG3. I'm not suggesting that dual-threat QBs aren't more susceptible to missing playing time, but it's uncommon for their careers to be abruptly shortened by injuries. On the flip side, we could witness quarterbacks usually considered safer from an injury standpoint diminishing due to running more. There's an expectation for all quarterbacks to be able to create, extend, and scramble for yards when necessary. The baseline for running expectations set by franchises is on the rise. Newton completed 11 seasons in the NFL. In his 10th season with the Patriots, his running ability remained at an elite level. Unfortunately, his throwing power was significantly affected when his AC joint on his throwing shoulder got injured while attempting a tackle. His legs remained elite to the end. You are too easily annoyed my man. Most QBs are injured. Tough sport. Are you saying he was injured and that’s why he couldn’t run? I don’t think that’s what you mean, but just checking. I concur that such a scenario seems improbable. Personally, I'm content with an 8-year run, given it yields a 60-70% win percentage, chances for deep playoff runs, and perhaps a fortunate journey to the championship game. If there are signs of decline after the second contract, then start exploring other options. The notion of playing a 15-20-year game with a QB is somewhat fantastical; it does happen, but typically only for Hall of Fame quarterbacks (not attaching this to you by any means). If that's the argument, then yes, I strongly lean towards Drake Maye over Daniels. 100% Maye is more likely to start for a franchise in years 13-20 than Danies. I appreciate having a player's superpower with a high likelihood of impacting games at a high level, especially early in their rookie contract. Daniel’s projects to impact the teams run game at an elite level, elevating his RBs and Oline day 1 upon his arrival. I get this, but I like probabilities of the Washington QB have a physical advantage over the pool of mediocre QBs that represent 70% of starters and over the great to elite guys Washington will play in the playoffs. Relying on Drake Maye to become a better QB mentally than the dudes in the league seems like a lower probability. Take Jalen Hurts, for instance. While he may not excel in traditional pocket QB skills, he held his own against Mahomes in the Super Bowl, with many believing he outplayed Mahomes. His impact came significantly from his running ability, something Mahomes can't quite match in the same way. While I generally lean towards quarterback "freaks," I'm perfectly fine if they end up with Maye. The discussion has shifted from, and at least around here, there's no debate about the need for a QB who can create and extend – Maye can certainly do that.

Is there a source or individual compiling data on the number of anticipation throws attempted and completed by each quarterback? Also, are there widely accepted criteria to determine what qualifies as an anticipated throw?

Can you provide examples of elite dual-threat individuals with notably brief careers? Additionally, how do you define a "very short" career in your perspective? Truly interested to hear your thoughts, especially when your other team has an elite dual threat guy playing on a second contract.

Ignoring injuries, do you lean towards Daniels over Maye? Absolutely hate Daniels wasnt a former baseball player, off platform throws and baseball slides are below average for him. Admire his consistent throwing motion and am hopeful he measures close to or at 6'4. Love the concept of having an elite dual-threat player who can excel at checking down without being prone to batted balls and similar issues.

If Daniel runs as fast or faster than you did at your peak in the 40-yard dash, are you still part of the Maye camp? For those unfamiliar, @Skinsinparadise used to run a 4.4 40-yard dash.

I'm kinda intrigued by the whole weight and injuries thing in the NFL, especially for quarterbacks. People say being heavier makes you less prone to injuries, right? Gonna dig into that for fun. Noticed the dude's size, but not sure how much it really matters – not that I'm saying it's the right way to look at it. Just my two cents. Haha, never claimed Mahomes, Tua, Stroud, Rodgers in our debates. If you toss them into the dual-threat QB mix, it feels like 80-90% of QBs should be on that list. They're not exactly running the show in the ground game or imparting it heavily. The league's gotten more athletic at QB, ditching those old-school ideas—the baseline is John Elway athleticism now 😳. Younger Wilson, back when he was crushing it in multiple SBs, now that was an elite dual-threat dude – and that was like 15 years ago! You seem a bit closed-minded on this, not catching the ongoing shift in the NFL. The basic athleticism at QB is on the upswing – maybe not at the extreme elite level, but the baseline is definitely climbing. It’s not to say your precious ideas of what makes a great QB don’t remain in many ways, but there’s different paths to get there. In the 80s it was believed a shooting guard/wing player couldn’t be the best player on an NBA championship team. In the 2000s shooting too many threes and not playing inside out was considered bad basketball. I love using the NBA because it always seems 10-15 years ahead of the NFL. Another example for the fun of it is the middle of the field becoming more position less to counter the high octane passing offenses, much like the NBA became position less 15 or so years ago. My bad if it came off as disingenuous; never tossed those guys into the dual-threat QB mix. Usually, I'm talking about Jackson, younger Wilson, Newton, Kaepernick, Tebow, Allen, Hurts, Murray, RG3, etc., as the elite dual-threat crew. In my observation, QBs with elite dual-threat skills drafted in rounds 1 or 2 tend to bust less than those less athletically gifted. While I'm up for a chat about the ceiling, it seems the floor is higher for early-drafted athletic QBs. I reckon the NFL might have this wrong, but getting rid of the old guard takes time. Many teams still have dinosaurs running the show – not denying there's truth in their approach, but they're often limited by their old-school thinking. No model's flawless in the NFL, but the floor looks solid today. I'll admit, the elite dual-threat advantage has dwindled compared to 15 years ago with the whole league getting more athletic at QB. It's wild – if you can't create, extend, and take off, your draft stock seems to take a hit in today's analysis! Imagine saying that 20- 25 years ago. Just a heads up: Lamar was the NFL MVP at 27. The age factor seems a bit weak; not sure it holds much water with this logic. I'm hooked on Daniels' height and smooth throwing mechanics – a bit of an anomaly among elite dual-threat guys in the past two decades. Initially pegged him as a mid-4.5 40-yard dash guy, but there are reports he might be sub-4.4. If that's the case – a definite 100000% all-in on that floor and upside. Daniels brings an elite run game floor that directly affects time of possession, often reduces turnovers, keeps your defense and the opposing team's offense off the field, and holds the potential for a dynamic red zone offense. Just to be clear, I'm generally inclined toward athletic freaks at any position, including QB. However, I'm not counting Caleb out; getting him would be fantastic. Currently leaning towards Drake Maye at the 3rd position on my list due to not knowing his potential superpower entering the league. Not suggesting his arm talent won't develop, but many powerful arms are active in the league and on sitting the bench. I'm not firmly taking a stance on him right now, and it probably won't change during this process. If Washington drafts him, I'll be hoping he becomes a savant and studies the game maniacally for his arm talent to flourish and becomes a wizard at reading the field. With Caleb and Daniels, there's no hoping needed – even as a casual fan, I'm confident they'll bring instant impact and known variables to a game full of chaos.

Dual threat QBs drafted in round 1 rarely bust and have the highest floors. Higher ceiling and longevity there’s more of an argument. 20 years from now over 60% of the QBs will run 4.4, so there’s still time to get in again while rest of the NFL trots out average athletes at QB. NFL has this wrong.

On TV, you're not afforded the luxury of being 60-40 or presenting multiple "ifs" and "buts." Instead, you're compelled to make assertive statements and stick to them. In person, Riddick would likely emphasize that nobody is a guaranteed success, highlighting the uncertainties of work ethic and adaptation to the NFL lifestyle. However, such nuanced perspectives might not resonate as effectively on television.

Skip is everything you said, but dude is a sports nut and extremely well researched—at least he was when I used to watch him and Stephen A together consistently for a few years.

It's frustrating how Samuel was underutilized this past season. I can't decide what's more disappointing – the limited use of Howell as a runner or the failure to involve Samuel more dynamically, whether in motion, in the backfield, or through direct snaps. There's so much potential to deploy him in various roles! Should’ve wore the dude out this year. Curious about whether the truth lies in teams of higher or lower quality retaining more players over time. I have to acknowledge that nerdy offensive coordinators transitioning to head coaches seem to gain an advantage by effectively leveraging their talent on game days. The traditional model appears to relinquish control, attempting to oversee everything. Just call the plays! Whatever… onward!

Will age well. Open to giving 2.5-3 years of guaranteed money. The per year stuff is whatever.

I actually think he’ll be just fine. Dude is maniacal about pretty much everything in life, just not on Tuesdays lol I see him being a potential coup for a franchise if he plays ball financially, which I think he and his agent will this time around.

100% concede Kirk separated himself from likes of Derek Carr or that level of QB. He still doesn’t score enough points or throw enough TDs to warrant big time dollars, but Kirk is a good pocket QB.

Great value with him entering after calling games on the defensive side. Hoping he positions himself to stay actively involved and continue calling plays on defense. Must leverage his expertise – the same expectation I'd have for a standout OC transitioning to head coach. hahahaha…. I’ve always said, him at 5% or so of the cap is okay with me. Rumors are Wilson will be had for $10-15 mil next season. Your boy Carr is next in line for a huge salary reduction.

Honestly, Quinn appears to be the kind of coach I initially expected Washington to have with Ron Rivera. I don't anticipate repeatedly hearing about patience and time from Quinn, but those are buzzwords I'll definitely be watching out for, lol. Call the plays on defense, Quinn. This is his superpower, Washington should benefit from this superpower.

What qualifies as not attractive to highly thought of GM with options?

Wouldn’t this logic apply to the GM search?

I'll keep saying it – he has to be the play-caller on defense come game day, or I'll be disappointed. No need for delegation or trying to build up a buddy's portfolio; lean into what makes you great and take full responsibility.

Does Steve Spagnuolo get enough credit for the Chiefs' last two Super Bowl appearances? The Chiefs offense has delivered average returns throughout the year. To your point, acknowledging the value of a great offensive mind is valid, but having a great defensive mind can be equally crucial. The emphasis should be on greatness, and Quinn has consistently delivered on the defensive side of the ball, helping teams break free from the clutches of mediocrity. The upside of going for a retread or an older dude is their financial stability and self-awareness, granting them an "F it" mentality to go all-in and pursue greatness.

Give him a listen, he has some good insight and breaks down film. Remove what he did or didn’t do in his career.

Logan’s going to be biased, but also have fantastic insight during Quinn’s tenure. This is it for me—I'm hoping he sticks with calling the defense. When I cheer for my team, I want the head coach delivering consistent returns with what earned him the job in the first place. For the young offensive-minded head coach, it's all about calling the plays. Call the plays! Or flip it around—offense, well, that's the easy part; defense, now that's the real challenge. Having a sharp defensive mind can be a game-changer and give us a crucial edge.