darrelgreenie

Going along with your theory above IF a HC (per my theory) was made to understand that getting Griffin to play is the only option not Kirk or Colt then that HC finds away to make it work. And as per my theory having watched the tape he had to have a better understanding of where the QB was in terms of development. So despite underestimating the enormity of the task coach realizes that a. its my own fault for underestimating how much work it would take and b. I am going to find a way to make this work because I have to, I gave my word. If I have to play him heavy preseason reps then I will to make sure he understand ours concepts with live (semi-live) bullets flashing.

Its weird some of the things people get upset over in his press conferences. That bit about coaches job being done on Saturday didn't bother me at all, and sure I agree that was a blunder. But ultimately harmless. Since we're on the topic of Gruden's undressing of Griffin; that was the first sign that Jay didn't want Griffin. Its one thing to take a player to task in person. But another thing to do it publicly the way Jay did (btw-every coach i've heard on the topic said Jay took it too far). Jay had a chance to get his QBs back publicly, regardless of what was going on behind closed doors. And if you recall, Griffin was asked a question about why he had success in 2012 and Griffin responded by saying it takes a team to play well. That was used to say he threw his teammates under the bus. http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2014-11-16/robert-griffin-iii-rg3-teammates-buccaneers-loss-quote-rodgers-manning-brady During the postgame press conference, Robert Griffin III was asked about the difference between 2012, a rare playoff appearance for the team, and now, the quarterback had this to say, via the Washington Post: “We were playing good team ball. It takes 11 men. It doesn’t take one guy, and that’s proven. If you want to look at the good teams in this league and the great quarterbacks, the Peytons and the Aaron Rodgers, those guys don’t play well if their guys don’t play well. They don’t. We need everybody. I need every one of those guys in that locker room, and I know they’re looking at me saying the same thing.” Gruden could have said something along the lines of: ~Robert needs to learn to be more careful with what he says during these press conferences. And I've got to help him learn just as I am learning that things sometimes get taken out of context and that's what happened here. Robert was trying to answer a question, I believe the question was in regards to his success in 2012? Yeah, and Robert was right he said it takes a team, and it does. And Robert should have stopped there. He'll learn and I'll help him, but Robert did not intend to throw his teammates under the bus as you guys have said. Still critical but not making it seem personal and doing a public critique of the worst game of his the QBs career. But by publicly admonishing Griffin, Gruden not only confirms the narrative that Griffin threw his teammates under the bus he created another narrative that Griffin is on the whole a fundamentally flawed QB. (despite Gruden saying the flaws were only on a few instances.) The HC came out and intentional attacks the QB as if the QB intentional threw his teammates under the bus and when that happened I knew it was over. Nothing else matters after that. The media story becomes Griffin threw his teammates under the bus and the HC becomes the hero of the locker room took him to task for it.

I wouldn't call them PR blunders. I think Gruden knows how to work a room and right know his rhetoric has kept most from looking at him and his culpability. Someone I worked with used to say...I don't need to hear about the labor just show me the baby. And right now Gruden has told us all about the labor with Griffin, the players in general and the defense in general. Then you don't hire the guy if you/he think the potential franchise QB is a mistake. You trade Griffin in the offseason and recoup something while he still has value and start fresh with your guys. But, imho ~20 quarters is a joke. To me it reeks of someone that never wanted the guy from the outset (which I'm sure we disagree about and will never know the answer to) What gets me that this whole mess the past couple of years has been all about the QB all about Griffin when in fact this team has been lousy the entire time during Shanahan's regime other then the 7-game heater. The narrative tho is that Shanahan was fired because of Griffin when in fact he was fired for personnel decisions, historically bad special teams, league worst defense, and an unacceptable W/L record then towards the end he began blame shifting and the focal point became the benching of Griffin as if Griffin was the source of the problem then proceeded to lose the games without Griffin. People forget that last year in Griffin's underperforming year the offense was still the strongest aspect of the team. Oh, I want to be dead wrong about this. But based on Gruden's own words/tone towards Griffin let alone his benching do you think it looks like Gruden wants to coach Griffin? I can't think of any straws to grasp onto that would suggest that Gruden would want him back. And I'm open to suggestions.*shrugs*

No worries, but you were the one that spoke of practice film. I am suggesting doing exactly what you claim somehow isn't possible i.e. allowing the candidates to find out as much as is reasonable to make an informed decision about Griffin. But you're not being hired to "make" a franchise QB. You're being hired to coach the team and develop our potential franchise QB (along with the other QBs). And prior to your decision we would grant you the ability to evaluate/determine as best as possible within reason. And if you would pass on the job then no harm no foul; eventually a HC like Harbaugh, Caldwell (or McCarthy) will come in and embrace the development of the QBs we have in house. That when you sign-on for the job you're motivated to make the relationship work and give it more then ~20 quarters before giving up.

Of course you have to hire a HC that can coach the team. (and btw how would you rate JG in thus far?) But, yeah of course you're creating a false dichotomy its not an either or proposition. When you hire a HC that is considered a QB guru you expect him to coach the entire team AND work their magic with QBs. Just as if you hire Pete Carrol you expect them to coach the team but you expect him to work his magic on defense. I disagree but even IF this was true its a HUGE mistake that reeks of lack of preparation on both sides. A HC that didn't know how to evaluate talent in his area of expertise and a GM that didn't give the candidate access to make an informed assessment. Despite the rhetoric about Griffin still being in their plans. Judging from Jay's own words and demeanor towards Griffin vs that of the rest of the team I would guess that Griffin days in Washington are over. Quickly? Sure. Spectacularly? Hardly. That's a pretty big miss. Building a staff is the most important aspect of a regime. And Gruden had more help with the passing as an OC in Cinci then he had here as a 1st year HC, that's terrible. Who knows maybe if Griffin had Ken Zampesee, the vet QB coach in Cinci, maybe Griffin and the other QBs would have more time to work on QBs stuff while Jay was working on a million other HC and OC duties.

Gonna break this response down to a couple posts. You contradict yourself here first you say 'You can't turn over your practice and game film and make coaches available to candidates' but then you turn around and say 'Not without knowing Griffin and what exactly went wrong last year'. First the coaching candidates already have access to game film. Some candidates like Jim Caldwell for example brought with him a compiled tape of all Matt Staffords throws and had notes and a presentation on how to get Stafford to improve. We can quibble over how much access is right but the point is to give the candidates as much information as is reasonable to ensure the enter this venture with eyes open. I think any HC worth a damn would realize that the development of a franchise/potential franchise QB is the biggest task IF they are being hired based on their 'QB guru' status. All I am saying is a good GM makes sure this task is spelled out clearly so there is no confusion. This part of the interview conversation ensures the QBs already within the franchise aren't ran through at an alarming rate and the potential franchise QB is given more then 4 games besides being passed over. -Side note. Everyone here likes to pile on failed players/coaches this regimes churns through and Zorn is an easy target. But despite being saddled with Vinnie and an actively meddling Dan with a talented deprived roster he actually had the same record as Mike Shanahan at the point Zorn was fired AND coached Jason Campbell, Jason freakin Campbell to point where not only did Campbell improve but actually grew into being a league average WCO QB.

But how much of this is hindsight? Even at the time I was against re-signing Orapko

Since Bruce Allen assumed the mantle of GM this off season I am judging him based on this off season. In fairness its only one year in and so I guess it warrants another year before being replaced. But as GM he's isn't off to a good start. Mistakes: o Hiring a HC that appears to have given up on developing the franchise QB after ~20 quarters i am willing to stomach losing a potential franchise QB IF the HC proves to be a winner o Retaining of Jim Haslett o Franchising Orakpo (and the consequent trickle down effect) o Inability to address/upgrade FS/SS o Shaun Lauvao o Andre Roberts

I guess I didn't consider option b.

If we had a strong GM none of this nonsense happens. We wouldn't hire a HC that plans to burn through our QBs like Rust Cohle. We wouldnt leave our new HC under staffed with the QB/ passing game coaches. A strong GM let's our HC know that you cannot crush the QB that HE is responsible for developing in press conferences. And you can't turn the handling of Griffins benching into a spectacle. The HC we hired should have been asked and held accountable to one question first and foremost. Can you develop Griffin? If the answer is yes then understand that you are tied to him. Griffins success/failure is your success/failure. So do your due diligence on Griffin all our film and staff coaches are an open to you. Fund out as much as you can. If you want the job you have full control and can do whatever you like. But Griffin's develop is tantamount.

My biggest gripe in this whole charade is that Bruce got his first decision as GM wrong. He hired a HC that wasn't 100% focused on develop the franchise's most important player. So for me that's a huge strike 1. If you hire someone like Bevell or Roman although they aren't big names at least they proved the willingness to work with and build a productive offense around QBs with Griffin's skillset. As a result of this failure we may have gained a HC (good) but lost our best and potential franchise QB (bad). When we could have had a win-win. Get a good HC and retain our potential franchise QB. And I actually think Colt has a chance to play well and win the job. I've always liked Colt going back to when he was a draft prospect. I thought Colt was a good addition in the offseason and thought he could play. I never understood why fans thought he sucked and viewed him as inferior to Kirk so I don't rule out Colt being guy. I'm happy for Colt just never thought it would happen like this. It just sucks that one of the most talented QB prospect in a decade has washed out here in DC after such awesome start.

Then the feeling is mutual. That drivel fits the story line crafted by the media around Griffin II statement. I'm gonna let this go after this because its pointless now. Once a player is done, the revisionist piling on is impossible and pointless to stop. So after this I'm gonna try to be done. First of all what Robert II said is true by the way “You name one quarterback out there that would rather run the football than throw the football and I’ll show you a loser.” Seriously what QB would rather run then pass? But going from Griffin II comments to dictating how the offense would be run is a ridiculous and absurd leap. Here's what Robert said- I'll do whatever we have to do to win the game," he said. "That's always been my mindset. I'm the quarterback." "The plays are in, they're ready to run, and I'm ready to run them," Griffin said. "We just haven't had a chance to do them because we've fallen behind too much. "It's not that I want to run more, I just feel like that's what we need and if that's what it takes for us to win games, I'm willing to do that. It's not anything I'm going to shy away from." Why do statements from Griffin's father carry more weight then Griffin's own statements? Why do those statements carry more weight then Griffin's actions running w/ a knee brace? This year- "... I’m not gonna go out there and try to be a normal quarterback. I’m gonna go out there and be the quarterback he’s called me to be.” “It’s a part of every quarterback who can move around a little bit — their game,” Griffin said. “Everybody has run it, from Aaron Rodgers on down the list. It’s something you want to sprinkle in, keep the defense aware of, make them have to practice it, but it’s not something that you make the focal part of your offense. That’s why we have the guys that we have. That’s why we run the offense that we’ve been running, and you haven’t seen very much of the zone read. But it is there, and it’ll be utilized as Coach deems necessary.” “We’ll mix in quick gains, screens, we’ll take our shots, we’ll run the ball and if a zone-read creeps in there every now and there, it doesn’t bother me,” he said. “It’s whatever Coach Gruden and Coach [sean] McVay want, and I also can use my legs in the passing game if something’s not there.” Gruden- “If you run it just a few times over the course of the game — maybe three or four times in two games — I don’t know, then it’s just something else for the defense to have to worry about in practice and will give them fits,” Gruden said. “. . . I don’t envision us running it seven, eight times a game. We’ll see how the game dictates. But it’s just like anything else. You run something similar often, the defense will figure it out. You have to be diverse in what you do. You have to disguise what you do.” Gruden: Designed runs 'few and far between' for RGIII Gruden conceded to NFL Media's Steve Wyche on Thursday's edition of NFL AM that Griffin's designed runs might be "few and far between" this season. The new 'Skins coach made it clear, however, that RGIII will have the green light to scramble as often as the situation dictates. From before Gruden even came here: "It was my feeling and a lot of other people's feeling in the building that Andy was the most mentally ready to come in and start Day 1," Gruden said. " ... Colin had the great physical makeup, but there were questions about his quarterback accuracy, as a passer is concerned. I also wasn't really into the read option stuff and it wasn't really that popular at the time." So where there is smoke there is sometimes media driven BS. Grudes doesn't call much zone-read because he never has and doesn't even like it. So can we stop with Griffin doesn't want to run read-option and that is why they don't call it. No. Watch some Bengals game and know the history Grudes doesn't like/call much zone read. And Dilfer in this interview here: http://www.stationcaster.com/player_skinned.php?s=65&c=428&f=3671033 Said ~Even if Jay wanted to run an offense similar to the Mike/Kyle he doubts whether or not Jay has their acumen in the read-option game. I am not saying Griffin is blameless, never have not once. Griffin has played the worst 2 games I've ever seen him play. I've broken down some of his mistakes and Griffin is not playing well. But this is a process and the Jay is supposed to be responsible for Griffin's development. ~20 quarters into a process that Jay knows takes far more he's giving up. For me this is results driven. Jay was responsible for develop QBs not for making excuses about their lack thereof. Jay's task was to develop QB the results of that development is production. The production has dropped and some say the Griffin has regressed. (Cousins hasn't developed either btw) From a management perspective Jay has failed in the task of developing QBs. I'm done talking about Griffin though. Its in the past. People are gonna pile on and Griffin is gonna be the bad guy/fall guy in many peoples eyes because that's what happens now. But, when we refer to Griffin and what happened here I hope the revisionist history and the narrative doesn't have to become completely fabricated because its annoying to read post after poster of falsehoods. (not from you per se but in general) Here's what I see: Jay was tasked with develop Griffin. Griffin didn't play well quickly enough based on Jay's arbitrary time table. Jay pulled the plug and turned the process of pulling the plug into a spectacle. I hope Griffin lands in a place with a stable organization, strong front office and knowledge QB coaches. I think best case scenario would be to sit behind an aging but good QB for a couple/few years where he is developed properly then takes the keys of a turn-key offense. Ideal places: Saints, Arizona, Chargers, Denver (but they have a QB in development), Cowboys. Or a place where he can play right away that is completely catered to his skillset but I'm still a fan of the Burgundy and Gold so the last place I want to see him is probably the best fit the Eagles.

I don't think we can cut bait with Gruden. But in perfect world Bruce Allen's GM duties should be removed and handed to an actual GM. A GM that will fix the coaching staff to resemble the structure closer to that of a normal WCO. Our structure: 1st time HC also call plays, 1st time OC non-play-caller. QB coach duties shared by the HC/OC KC- Andy Reid HC who calls plays, Doug Pederson OC (former NFL QB and QB coach), Matt Nagy QB coach, Brad Childress (former HC, OC and playcaller) spread game analysis/special projects Eagles- Chip Kelly HC who calls plays, Pat Shurmur OC (former HC, former OC), Bill Musgrave QB coach (former OC, vet QB coach) Colts- Pep Hamilton 2nd year OC (Luck's college OC btw), Rob Chudzinski special assistant (former HC, vet OC developed Cam/rookie year), Clyde Christensen QB coach (former OC, vet QB coach) Packers- Mike McCarthy vet HC former OC doesn't call plays, Tom Clements OC playcaller (former OC vet/QB coach), Alex Van Pelt QB coach (vet QB coach former NFL QB) Cowboys- Garrett vet HC former OC doesn't call plays, Bill Callahan OC playcaller (former HC, vet OC) Scott Linehan passing game coordinator (former HC, former OC), Wade Wilson vet QB coach former NFL QB Miami- Philbin 3rd year HC former OC doesn't call plays, Bill Lazor 1st year OC playcaller stolen from Chip Kelly former vet QB coach, Zac Taylor vet QB coach, Ben Johnson assistant QB coach 1st year

Developing a QB isn't easy there are ups and downs there are sub 100 yard passing games there will bad games filled with mistakes. Jay knows its a process he knows development takes time. But listen to Jay's own comments have you EVER heard a HC/OC talk about a QB the way he did? nor find a coach/QB that agrees with how Jay handled it? And now Griffin's development is over merely ~20 quarters into that 'process'? Yeah that's enough for, the fact that Griffin's development is over and Jay's comments clearly demonstrate that Gruden wasn't interested in developing Griffin. (nevermind that reports are that Gruden felt this way in TRAINING CAMP) I remember that press conference you refer to above and I don't buy that drivel for a second. Sometimes (I should stop) I listen to ESPN 980 and I remember then pushing that story hard. But all that is conjecture, speculation based and the only tangible evidence people use to support that are words in an article that I'm sure Griffin's father wishes he could take back. Since then how many times have heard Griffin say he ready to do/play however the coaches want. And if you watched the Bengals game you know Gruden barely runs read-option anyway. As Trent Dilfer said he doesn't know how. His offense is not like Mike/Kyle offense. And we have watched Griffin in read-option this year and last year so it not like its been stricken from the offense. I don't buy that Griffin dictating the offense for one single solitary second and I guarantee if Griffin was dictating the offense it would look way more like the Eagles then anything Mike/Kyle/Jay have done. Do you believe that in a new regime Griffin should get a blank slate? Wouldn't Griffin have a larger base to develop then a rookie spread zone-read QB? New GM Mandate 1: Find a HC that can help develop our potential franchise QB and the other QBs on the roster GRADE: ? The first HC hire of the Bruce Allen regime has already failed (and quickly) at QB development. Not only did the QB 'guru' fail to develop the QBs he devalued them and made the process publicly embarrassing for the franchise.

This "new" regime is not off to a good start. I find it especially troubling that the first move, the very first move of the new regime is off to a shaky start. They hired a HC "QB guru" to ostensibly develop the potential franchise QB and the other (then) potential starting caliber in Kirk Cousins. Not only has the new HC failed in the most important to for which he was hired but he appeared to have no interest in accomplishing the task from the start.That to me is damning. The biggest task for which the HC was hired is over in ~20 quarters of football. If you believe the reports it was over in AUGUST at the beginning of training camp! But not only did the new HC fail/was never interested in develop the potential franchise QB made the franchise look bad with the public ugliness. And oh btw, he also devalued Kirk Cousins. We started the season with 2 QBs with league wide value and the new HC has diminished both. SMH

Your score is: 4798 (GRADE: A-) Your Picks: Round 1 Pick 6: Andrus Peat, OT, Stanford (A-) Round 2 Pick 6: Arik Armstead, DE, Oregon (A-) Round 3 Pick 6: Arie Kouandjio, OG, Alabama (A-) Round 4 Pick 6: Cam Thomas, CB, Western Kentucky (A) Round 5 Pick 6: Chucky Hunter, DT, TCU (A) Round 6 Pick 6: Cody Fajardo, QB, Nevada (A) Round 7 Pick 6: Damian Swann, CB, Georgia (A)

Some complaints I had during the offseason that I was taken to task for: o Bruce Allen should have hired a GM o Jay Gruden wasn't my first choice (although I am giving him benefit of the doubt and with holding judgement) o Not hiring an experienced Offensive coordinator to take some of the workload off the plate of a 1st time HC o Not hiring a QB coach to take some of the workload off a 1st time HC o Should have upgraded the Defensive coordinator o The already mentioned FA/draft failures o Some of the consequences of the above mistakes are obvious and have played out on the field but some more subtle are: -Inability of GM to reign in the loose lips of the HC/QB in the media. I believe a competent GM addresses these issues amicably/semi-amicably behind closed doors -Inability to reign in the "cats dry sniyching" behind the scenes

Going forward this will be the house that Bruce Allen builds but I don't fault him for the current team because he's only been at thee decision maker this offseason. Prior to that Mike Shanahan was the end of all be all when it came to personnel etc. I like Jay okay, his style isn't my preference but he's shown it can be productive. I am starting to worry about his demeanor and the team's level of discipline.

Its gonna be hard for Bruce to step in on Haslett since he has proved the lousy personnel.

After the season the Front Office has to consider Dennis Allen as DC.

True Detective Just started watching it this week, ended up binge watched 3 episodes today.