Skinsinparadise

Washington is in a different spot this year with Doctson than the last few years. He has undeniable physical talent, and the team doesn’t want to give up on that. The Redskins also added two rookie wideouts this year in the draft in Terry McLaurin and Kelvin Harmon, and combined with a number of second year players like Trey Quinn and Cam Sims to go with established starter Paul Richardson, Doctson looks more expendable than ever. And there’s the added reality - If Doctson isn’t in the cards for 2020, why wait around in 2019? All of that said, he could still help this fall. And that’s why the team doesn’t want to outright release him on Saturday when rosters drop from 90 players to 53. Multiple league sources have suggested that eventually, Doctson will play well, and that it will probably happen if/when he ends up with one of the NFL’s two Texas franchises, the Texans or the Cowboys. Doctson is a Texas native and played his best college football after he transferred from Wyoming back to TCU. That might be overly simplistic, but people believe it. Besides a fresh start with fewer expectations might be just what Doctson needs.

Just read Standig's take: He has C. Sims, Harmon and R. Davis as locks. He thinks for the 7th receiver its Doctson, S. Sims, Chesson, Kidsy vying for the last spot.

You'd think almost for sure, they'd want a pure slot type receiver in the mix considering Quinn being banged up last season and thus far in the preseason, too. Wonder if that helps S. Sims, Kidsy, etc. I saw Harmon play some slot in camp but mostly played on the outside.

Per the point below its not that secretly. Redskins seem like a chic pick by the national media, draft geeks, power rankers, to have the top pick in the draft or top 3. While I am not with Bruce on this "we are close" rap. I do think the truth is somewhere in between. I don't see this 3-13 type collapse as so many predict. I see it as another 7-9, 8-8 type rodeo.

Hoffman's take today: He thinks Harmon is a lock. Doctson likely makes it but its not 100%. He thinks Cam Sims is a lock and might challenge for a starting position. He thinks Steve Sims might sneak on to the roster (if they include 7 receivers) to back up Quinn at slot.

Agree. If we are talking disappointment from the context of being a first rounder. It's a real tough position to get right in the draft for whatever reason where at times it almost seems like its better to take a receiver in the 2nd-4th round than the first. I can't think of another position like that in the draft.

Bonafide in that the dude will get a job in the NFL and decent playing time. A bust to me is the dude is out of the NFL or on the verge of it. Doctson to me is OK. He's not great but he isn't a joke either. He's had 500 yards 2 seasons in a row. Those are the numbers give or take of the average #3 receiver hence I keep referencing that he's played like a #3. A bust would be Devin Thomas who has never came close to sniffing 500 yards and busted out of the NFL. Doctson's catch % needs to improve but at least it's trending up. Cooley who was an early critic of the dude talked about him improving last season in spite of shoddy Qb play and developed into a good run blocker. 2 different beat reporters said when they ask the FO about Doctson one thing they commonly hear is they think he will reach his peak elsewhere and not here because Jay's offense runs inside out as opposed to outside in and they've not had QB's who like to throw those 50-50 type contested throws. His 2 best games came after Alex got hurt. I am not pimping for Doctson but yeah a bust I don't see. If he were a third round pick IMO this type of conversation wouldn't be happening. If the discussion was instead whether he was worth the first rounder then on that count, clearly it looks like nope. But that's a different kind of debate. If he doesn't make the roster, he's IMO making it elsewhere. You won't find a bigger fan of Harmon and McLaurin than me considering I wanted both before they became Redskins and talked in detail about them on the draft thread. Yet, do I think Harmon is better than Doctson, now? I don't. Not, yet at least. Would I put Harmon on this roster above Doctson? Yes. Why because we happen to be deep at WR IMO and I don't want to chance losing a young guy at WR on the practice squad. And Doctson is an impending FA. We don't of late bring back many of our FAs. So Harmon is more intriguing to me than one more year to rent Doctson. But if its all about winning now, Doctson is likely the better bet.

Yeah he snuck it into an ESPN article this off season and doubled down on it via a podcast. https://theteam980.com/121964/john-keim-with-al-galdi-on-ereck-flowers-redskins-free-agency-jay-grudens-involvement/ John Keim with Al Galdi On Ereck Flowers, Redskins Free Agency & Jay Gruden’s Involvement ESPN Redskins Insider John Keim joins The Morning Blitz with Al Galdi with all the latest on the Redskins! John gives his take on the signing of Ereck Flowers and how much of an impact he’ll make on the offensive line. Also, what might be next for the Skins in free agency ? What was up with the Skins trying to trade Josh Doctson last offseason? Plus, how involved Jay Gruden has been in the Skins’ moves this offseason and more!

There are plenty of WR busts including first rounders. Doctson is a bonafide WR. It's not a joke when he is in the lineup. This isn't Devin Thomas and the series of high round busts we've seen in the NFL. He's not a legit #1 receiver, arguably not a #2 either. But I think he's a decent #3. That's not what you bargained for as for a first rounder but that's a different topic. Plenty of first rounders are outright busts. If Doctson was taken in the third round I don't think this would even be a topic. He's not awful. If he leaves here, slam dunk, IMO he will get a job. If he was a bust, he'd be out of the NFL by now or on the verge of it. Having said that, I heard on the radio today that he liked Sua Cravens' posts? If so I doubt its going to help him if he's on the verge of not making the roster. According to Keim they tried to trade him last year. I gather they couldn't get what they wanted.

I agree with the special teams WR comments. The way I took Jay's comments is he knew that McLaurin was an elite special teams player (some scouts said he was the best special teams player in the draft) and a good receiver but didn't know he was a very good receiver. Hoffman is using the word "special" as to McLaurin. Knowing Hoffman's style, I would bet that one of the team's scouts told him that. He among the beat guys seems to be the tightest with scouts or so it appears because he was the one beat guy before the draft that kept saying he was speaking to multiple team scouts. McLaurin had 11 TDs, a great YPC and catch % even though he wasn't the main guy featured in that offense. So I don't think its that crazy wild that the dude is this good. Though I admit although I pushed him among others before the draft -- am surprised to hear he is this level good. But thinking about it, a player who can run a 4.35, is smart, with great intangibles and catches most of what's thrown to him -- that's a good recipe for success.

I don't dislike Doctson and don't see him as a bust but I haven't seen anything to think he's more than a #3 type. More importantly, I am more intrigued with the new crop of receivers. So it should be interesting to see if all this buzz about Doctson not making the roster has any legs to it. ...“It says he wants it,” Norman said. “It says he wants not to just to be good — he wants to be great. A lot of people don’t have that. Hell, you can tell who goes in (after practice) and who stays out.” Harmon wasn’t the first player to approach Norman for extra reps outside of practice. But the players who usually ask, Norman said, are fellow defensive backs. ...Still, when Norman describes Harmon, he draws a comparison to a wide receiver that’s already great, one of the best — if not the best — in the league: Julio Jones. “He’s a little baby Julio if you ask me,” said Norman, who used to regularly face Jones when he was with the Carolina Panthers. “He has the ability. He has the size. It’s just getting him acclimated, getting him in, getting him going. I mean, he looks great out here, fantastic.” Norman said he wants Harmon to get more playing time, adding the rookie can become an elite-level receiver if he gets the opportunity. Coach Jay Gruden has admitted it has been “tricky” to find the right amount of reps for his receivers in camp, but noted he feels good about all of them. Last week in his preseason debut against the Cleveland Browns, Harmon received 20 offensive snaps and caught two passes for 17 yards. https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/aug/12/kelvin-harmon-turns-josh-norman-effort-be-great/

Might be a different rap between what beat guys are thinking versus coaches. I touted Sims' practices too but I noticed he was playing with the 3's a lot, McLaurin with the 1's. That narrative seemed to extend to the first preseason game where McLaurin was treated like kid gloves and brought in for just one rep early and Sims was brought in later on.

Sure, I get the let's see it in the season drill. I have more faith though in McLaurin than the standard WR camp hype that comes out of the blue typically about some undrafred guy or 7th round type. Reasons being: 1. McLaurin was drafted relatively high. This isn't like Marko Mitchell or someone that hardly anyone ever heard off before the draft. McLaurin was a bonafide prospect. I among others touted the dude before the draft. Kiper in one of his mocks even had him as a late first rounder. So he isn't some obscure out of left field guy. 2. Pre-draft he was a guy whose intangibles were touted to death. I posted stuff said by a scout about him and they were gushing about his intangibles. Works hard, smart, locker room leader, etc. 3. The rap on him from camp isn't just that he's showcasing mega raw ability (lets say like Cam Sims) but that he's a crisp route runner. According to personnel types including Scot McCloughan the hardest aspect of projecting a college receiver to adjusting to the NFL is their ability to pick up NFL route running. 4. On the other receivers in the past its been the fans who have had these man crushes primarily -- I don't recall the coaches gushing to the same level unless I misrember. For example if Hoffman is correct and the coaches are privately gushing about McLaurin that's not apples to apples from what I recall to the others. The only difference from what I recall being Taylor Jacobs. I recall hearing how Jacobs was killing it in practice. So for me I think we might this time genuinely have a good one in McLaurin. I've liked him before the draft and still do. I didn't like him then or now to the degree that he's a superstar in the making but feel that he can be a genuine #2 type. I guess we will find out.

Showcasing Holcomb's speed some. the first clip shows Holcomb about 10 yards behind the receiver, yet he's the dude (see 2nd clip) who catches up and makes the tackle.

I agree they've been drafting well. I love the combination of Kyle and Jay on that front. Both clearly have an eye for college talent. I do not think much of their pro personnel department -- that's why I'd love to see Kyle running the whole thing. I still think they are unlikely going to build a contender though as long as they have average to below average Qb play. It's a QB league. So QB and pro personnel IMO brings down the team some. But if they get Haskins right -- that IMO will change everything. For Dan to finally get the Qb position right -- not only will make this team a contender finally but also it would get a major monkey off his back considering all the misjudgments over the years starting with dumping Johnson for J. George. But yeah part of the reason why I am not as down on Jay as some as I've heard a number of beat guys, Cooley, anonymous personnel guy talking to ESPN, and more -- that Jay is Robin to Kyle's Batman. That the both of them are the top 2 personnel guys in that FO. Chris Russell said he heard that Jay and Kyle have each other's back when there are disagreements behind the scenes because they have a likeminded football view. Jay is far from perfect but I think he brings more to the table than some give him credit for IMO.