nuposse87

What were we without Wall then? Not horrible? At least Thompson and Co. are young and have upside. Beal is better than Waiters but I suggest you actually look at Thompson's numbers before dismissing him, dude has made great strides. Gee is no world beater, but he isn't a terrible SF. Point is, all our pieces are VERY dependent on Wall, which is why his success is just as vital to us as Kyrie is to CLE. ---------- Post added February-14th-2013 at 04:29 PM ---------- Smith is not a 3, and he definitely isn't worth max money. He isn't going to get much better either. The only reason to entertain Smith is we wanted to ship our Nene to clear cap. Doubt ATL would want to that though.

Wall's supporting cast is better? They won 5 games w/o him...Wall his faults, mostly his jumpshot, but that and some rather dumb TOs are his only real faults given his experience level.

Assuming an about 10-11 month recovery time...he shouldn't be that behind schedule...and if you're picking in the top 3...you absolutely take him...it guarantees you'll be handicapped for about 1.5 months ensuring a bad record for '14 draft. Kill two birds with on stone. I think we provide a good situation for him, he doesn't have to play immediately and a lot of his necessary improvement isn't necessarily stuff that requires jumping. He is lucky though, that looked Livingston-esque.

Isaiah Austin is slowly becoming my favorite big man in this draft class. He's huge first off, 7'1 220, clearly needs to add weight, but if AD's skinny ass did it, I don't think it should be improbably for him either. He's already got some solid shooting touch (even out to 3 pt land) and has been really hitting his stride as of late. If this continues, into the tourney, I think his potential+production should warrant a top 3 pick out of him. I'd love for him to sit behind Okafor for year just to learn how to play center effectively. Clearly he'd still be a bit of a project, but I think we'd see dividends in year two. Still think Otto Porter provides the best fit+good talent, but I think he can be had out of the top 5. Ernie needs to get his hands on another lottery pick.

in his defense its because somebody threw him a lousy pass and he had to chase down a defender. I was actually enthalled with the jumpshot he took, he looked confident. The only thing I didn't like about the game is that if we put em away earlier we coulda had a full quarter of developmental time for Vesely. Lord knows he needs it.

Jeff Green is arguably one of the more asinine contracts in the NBA. In no way, shape or form, does he deserve the money he gets for his production and efficiency, not to mention his rather stupid concept of team defense. I am enthralled we didn't pay him and have not yet inquired about him. As to Martell, I think some of you are missing how much more efficient he makes Wall. It is far easier to run an offense when you have THAT level of a shooter on your team. He isn't a bad defender, about average, he rebounds at 5 per 36, which isn't awful and better assist to TO ratio. I mean I would lowball him initially, like at 3 mil per year, and then see what bargaining got me, in no way do I think we should overpay him, but we shouldn't just expect to find two way 40% 3 point shooters easily. http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/greenje02.html http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/webstma02.html look at this season's per 36 for both players. Its laughable to think he gets that sort of money.

4-4.5 mil a year for a player who is average in most categories while being elite in 3 pt shooting seems pretty fair to me. He doesn't make stupid plays all too often. He's a stopgap, or an elite shooter off the bench. I mean he's better value at that sort of contract than the likes of Jeff Green.

brandon rush got 2 year 4 mil a year, with similar shooting numbers and efficiency. At that price, it seems like a steal for us. I'd look to offload Ariza if we could and give him a 3 year deal at 4-4.5 mil a year with a player option being the final year. Oh and Melo's standing reach is 8'9.5 while LBJ's is 8'10. Shabazz's is 8'8. It'd be a problem against LBJ, but I think Shabazz has better hops then Melo. So again, he isn't at a terrible disadvantage for the 3 spot. LBJ and Melo are the only SFs in the league that are strong enough to check each other anyways. btw, carmelo anthony has a 33.5 inch MAX VERT....that is awful. I had no clue he was THAT fat.

I'm just curious...what SF has stopped LBJ? I understand the "undersize" concern against LBJ, but he plays a lot of 4 now...We ought to be drafting on what would make us better, not on how to check others that we really can't check right now. Utah isn't giving up any of their young bigs either. They're too damn good. They'll let one of Jefferson or Milsap walk, and ride those rookie contracts until they gotta pay em. One thing I don't understand, is why Gordon Hayward doesn't start for them anymore. I'll give tyreke this, he's playing waaay better this year than seasons past. He's shooting 36% from 3, he's a career 25% 3 pt shooter before this season....something to be careful of. Someone will overpay for him, prolly Grunfeld, and I'll continue to slam my head on my desk.

As far as comparison go...I see some Caron Butler in Shabazz...not necessarily a bad thing. His standing reach is greater than Caron's so he could definitely play SF. He has an excellent jumper for his age and could easily get 17+ next John. The kid also passes out when he has no shot, so it isn't like he's a complete shot jacker, he's gettin an unwarranted rep.

He's been in like 160 career NBA games...and is shooting..I think 48% from 3 point land...that seems a bit unsustainable. He'll prolly command some money...but with injuries the Lakers have he'll be forced into more playing time so we can get a good idea of what he's like over a larger sample size. He's 25...he could get better. I liked him in college, but I wouldn't overpay for him. If I'm the Lakers, they prolly know they can't afford to keep him, maybe we can make a trade for him? Clark+filler for...Ariza+Vesely?

to be honest, Webster has been fairly elite from 3 point range. I know its contract year for him, but he's the type of guy you want to keep around. If Beal comes back to form and gets close to 40% from beyond the arc, we're a stretch 4 away from having perfect floor spacing. Hell even Singleton looked like he could be that guy tonight. I liked the all around play, but you can't expect this type of shooting every night. If we played with this sort of effort every night, no way we shoulda lost to the kings and 76ers.

If you could combine Vesely BB IQ and seraphin's body, you'd have a helluva young player. I'm glad singleton is out of the dog house, we have a lot of young players that get inconsistent minutes...I'd probably try to package Booker+JC for the best player we can get. Vesely, for all his faults at least doesn't pro-actively **** **** up out there, he's just a liability at times. I also think regular minutes for him would still allow us to groom some value out of him.

I mean, I guess I should be happy we got the win. Just a bit concerning how we never put them away. Overall not a terrible game from an execution standpoint, but Beal is sorely missed. I'd rather see Vesely getting Seraphin's minutes until he learns some self awareness. The best thing to come out of this was no Jordan Crawford in the 2nd half.

Oh I agree, you have to look at some context with the stats, I mean Hasheem Thabeet was a monstrous center according to advance stats early in the season, I don't purely look at stats but I try to use them explain performance, so long as I have some knowledge of the player involved. I just think you can only go so far off qualitative assessments. I think you qualitatively assess whether a player is physically ready for the NBA, but you gotta look at numbers against analogous competition to extrapolate their future performance. It seems to me Ernie drafts more on athletic aesthetics than a player's statistical performance, which is one of the reasons we're mired in futility.

I think most people are sarcastic with regards to any "praise" directed towards him. The Kool Aid is strong with him. I like RealGM cause of some the stats gurus, that and I find the "general board" to pretty amusing, although it can get pretty devolved at times. As to the game tonight, clippers are playing bad, if CP3 is out, we may still yet have a shot. Beal and Booker are doubtful again I think, might see the american Vesely match up against Vesely, oh the humanity...

Noah has plantar fasciaiitis, i'd try to extract as much value as I could if we are going to deal Vesely. Trading Vesely for other prospects makes no sense though. I'd consolidate half of our bench for quality bench players if at all possible. Seraphin+JC+Chris Singleton should net someone with a brain, at least that's my hope.

or just another team contending with our lottery balls! Feel bad for Rondo, **** the celtics though. ---------- Post added January-27th-2013 at 03:39 PM ---------- or just another team contending with our lottery balls! Feel bad for Rondo, **** the celtics though.

Oh he's definitely not quick, nor is a juggernaut leaper, but he's very long, and blocks shots in play, which is definitely a lost art. He finishes alright. I think he'd be able to add value to a team relatively quickly in the mid 20s of the 1st round. Playing him against other NBA bench players ought to be fine for him as well. Okafor might be dealt next year, and while I want Cousins, you can't bank on having him moving forward. Not that Withey is a starter, but he could give you 15-20 minutes of average to above average play relatively quickly in his NBA career. Didn't see the game today, but I'm guessing our mantra will end up being tough defense and blue collar teamwork like IND and MEM. None of the starters on this team are blackholes on offense. It'll be interesting if we can play .600+ ball towards all-star break. This team has some swag. Oh and I'm nuposse04 over on realgm. Not sure why I never kept the IDs consistent, but w/e lol.

If Jeff Withey can be had in the late 1st, I think ernie should try to make a trade in order to acquire him. He're got very nice defensive instincts. He also rebounds, which seems to be a lost art on our current roster with everyone except Okafor and Booker.

He's no quicker then most 6-11 big men in the NBA. His footwork is better but he'll be knocked out of position with minimal contact. He's not strong enough to play the 5 and he isn't faster then NBA 4s. He's nimble, I can say that, but outside of one reverse dunk on some wing player, I haven't seen the "explosiveness" that you speak of. Lot more college ball left, for his sake I hope he showcases it. Lets also be clear, I don't dislike him, I think he's going to be a solid professional, but I vehmently disagree that he'd be a missing "piece" for this roster. I see his career arc taking him to maybe the 3rd best player on a team when he's in his prime... I'll take a site like DX's opinion over yours, no offense. You can't fault me judging him with what "known" data there is. Not until you can provide me something with more credibility. http://www.iuhoosiers.com/sports/m-baskbl/mtt/cody_zeller_760980.html I'll take their official listing. He could be at 235, hell Vesely is 6'11 240 and they got similar build. So I don't see why you think he's 20lbs lighter outer then pure conspiracy. I still think he gain 15-20, 255lbs would be ideal for Zeller if he can become a 5. I question whether he has the frame to hold that kind of weight for his career though. Forward/Centers in the east with more athleticism then him (not skill, just shear athleticism): Booker, Vesely, LBJ, Bosh, Lopez (at his size, yes), Gerald Wallace, Ed Davis, Udoh, Larry Sanders, Tyson Chandler, Amare, Jon Henson, McRoberts, Andrew Nicholson, Biyombo, Warrick, Noah, Gibson, Drummond, Maxiell, maybe Monroe, Josh Smith, Al Horford, T. Young, Miles Plumlee, Jonas Val (for his size and girth, he moves extremely well and is much more imposing), Jeff Green, Tristian Thompson....and thats just in the east. Those are all players, relative to their game, are more athletic. There are a ton of people in the east that are less athletic then him that you could consider athletic, but they are either scrub bench players or make up for it with shear strength and skill. Your assertion is invalid. Of course it applies to every player, but you aren't seeing he point. If he was averaging 4 blocks a game, THEN I'd be impressed, because while he'll never do that in the pros, he has a good chance of being a rim protector in the next level. Players that statistically dominate the collegiate game, while having the physical makeup to compete in the NBA are prospects I want to explore. The only thing about Zeller I like is his FG%. That tells me he takes good shots and gets in good position. He doesn't dominate in any other statistical category. He's good in some of them, for the collegiate game, but I expect an "athletic" player to show more dominance. Noel is athletic and he averages 4 blocks a game, I can reasonably infer that skillset will have decent chance of translating over into the pros, maybe at like 2 blocks a game per 36 early on, but I think that level dominance is more credible than 1.4 bpg. His efficiency is his only dominant trait. Other than that he's just really good. I was mistaken in characterizing his dominance of the collegiate game. He's just really good at it. He flows well within his team's play. I'm not going to be sold on him until the combine. Unless he drops like 40 in the tourney, that will be more telling. That is fair, he probably will get better. I still have no reason to believe his ceiling is high. I expect a number 3 overall pick to have considerable upside, I don't see that level of room for growth. First of all, Durant had the physical tools to dominate in the next level (his wingspan). Griffin had the first step and general leaping ability to dominate. Love had the strength and core to dominate in the next level. Cody Zeller, outside of being 6-11, has no physical tools to dominate. He has an abundance of skill, which could potentially translate over. Morrison was a helluva collegiate player because he had amazing skill, for whatever reason, he busted. Jimmer Ferdette, amazingly skilled in college, role player on the Kings. All of them lacked a the physical tools in order to be relevant. Morrison's downfall wasn't his wingspan or lack of position, he was just not athletic enough for his level of skill to matter. I'll address the McLemore stuff later. Btw, welcome to realgm

Noel is an excellent athlete. So is Poythress, as is Bennett. As is Shavazz and McLemore. Rudy Gobert is more athletic. I haven't seen any lateral quickness from the guy. At the end of the day we'll have to wait until the combine happens in the summer and we can see where he ranks among Centers with "top 3" pedigree. Until then, we'll just have to agree to disagree. If they weren't intentionally lying, why are you an authority on his wingspan and they aren't? Their whole business is to get things like this right. Even to the naked eye you can see has short arms. Could they be longer? Possibly, but unless he has 6'11 arms he's going to be at a disadvantage. Again, we'll have to wait until the combine, but I'm just going off the most reliable data out there, and sadly, it isn't you. I doubt he grows any taller. He can fill out some more. He's at like 240 right now, and for that tall he'd get abused by a lot of eastern conference bigmen. He won't have a chance to work on gaining any weight until after tourney play. You can dredge it up, and I will happily eat crow, and you can't simply tell me that he'll retain his athleticism because " know he will." Truthfully it doesn't matter, cause his level athleticism won't matter against NBA size. I'm more worried about how extra weight would effect his health down the line. He doesn't exactly have tree stumps for legs, he doesn't look like he's meant to hold too much weight. The steals are fine, but the blocks aren't exactly going to sway any opinions. He plays pretty much starter minutes for college basketball. I've always thought college statistics should be interpreted with some level of exaggeration. If someone shoots .50% from the 3 pt line, in no way should you expect that in the pros, same with anyone averaging 4+ blocks. or 3+ steals. The same way, I expect him to average about a block a game his whole career. Which isn't exactly a rim protector. What he does do well against lesser competition is play Pick and Roll well. He doesn't have a length problems as far as college ball goes, so it would not matter. I'm actually astounded you'd even consider that. College ball is smaller, you don't need true NBA size to excel in it. meh, he's excellent in collegiate play, but so was Adam Morrison. Not the Ray allen in the league now, back in the day he could dribble some, but nothing to write home about. Rip Hamilton is one of the best mid range shooters of all time, he was no scrub. Beal actually had a solid move today driving to the basket, so he is making progress, but he was very average, to below average in college. So it is possible with someone with mediocre handles to make strides, why can't we assume the same for McLemore? So its his fault he's knocking down open looks? Right...I've seen Zeller get doubled...maybe tripled once, but he won't cause a need for a lot of that in the NBA. He's not physically dominant so there will never be a need. So McLemore plays best with a ball dominant PG? Ah so he'd fit next to Wall perfectly. I won't say McLemore does more for his team, but his impact is just the same no matter how much you may want it to be. I understand why you may be angry that I don't see potential in your boy, but it is more confounding that you write off McLemore's ability to get better. McLemore at least has no physical limitations to overcome and has shown he can already shoot. He just needs to work on his handles and passing instincts. Those can all be taught. You can't teach average-to above average wingspan.

Which I have, and there is nothing athletically amazing about his game. Any highlight dunks I've seen from him are of the "ho-hum" variety and usually set up by superior team play against lesser competition. Give me a citation for the first part, I did a quick google search couldn't find anything saying they're purposefully and wrongfully fudging numbers. Even if the measurement isn't official, I figure to be a helluva lot more close then your "official" assessment of him. Zeller's game is predicated on skill, and he's big enough for the college game where it wouldn't show up. He needs to add some weight in order to hold up on the next level, and ask yourself, do you honestly expect that he'd retain all of his supposed athleticism if he were to gain 15-20 lbs. Keep in mind he'll also be 21 the time NBA starts up, he isn't some 18 year who can easily put on weight, he can put on some, but I doubt his frame changes much...keeping him positional limbo. Lots of blocks and steals? He gets 1.4/1.3 respectively? If you're going to try to make some wild assertions try not lying through your mouth. Not to mention he less then 1 assist to TO ratio. Blackhole on offense? Or general incompetence, you tell me. There is a reason why he is in the top 3 for most drafts, that's cause he's a very conservative pick. He has a skill set that can work quickly but I don't see the "potential" that you or anyone speaks of. I see a poor man's LMA if everything pans out with him. Not a bad player, just a good player that shouldn't really start on a contender. Of Course I've seen McLemore play, I've watched both. I'm sure you've watched both, and its just hysterical you don't see how McLemore has a superior upside. Its ok to disregard stats if you feel the stats don't really fit the context of whats going on. Beal creates for himself? C'mon dude. Rip Hamilton, Ray Allen, they all play that game. McLemore can be like that plus eric gordon level athleticism. How is that not more appealing than a poor mans LMA? Oh so Zeller isn't playing on a good team? Both of them are instrumental to their team's success. You can't say one is lucky that he's playing for team X and say team Y's success would be totally gone if it wasn't for player Z. ---------- Post added January-25th-2013 at 10:17 PM ---------- As for the game, kind of expected a blowout, which is a welcome feeling. I really wish I could combine Vesely's ability set screens and overall cerebral awareness with seraphin's physical advantages. That'd actually make a for a good young prospective center. Booker and Vesely showed good hustle out there...Hope Beal's arm is fine. Oh and Wall droped 14-5 in 21 mins, adjusting for starters minutes thats like dropping 24-9...Should be good things coming once the restrictions are totally off of him.

I think I'm going to believe DX's actual listed measurements over yours. And I simply don't see the athleticism you speak of. If he had like Mason or Miles Plumlee like athleticism, than the blake comparison is fair, but it is moot. Highlight reel breakaway dunks don't constitute as evidence of athleticism. Find me a clip of him dunking on a legit NBA prospect one-on-one. You have tea party esque belief in the dude so it may not even be worth my time until the combine releases its numbers in the summer time. Now with regards to Beal and McLemore. Ben: http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/ben-mclemore-1.html TS of .644 and a efg of .596.... Beal: http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bealbr01.html TS of .494 and a efg of .451. Let it be clear, I am very happy with Beal and how he's turning out, but the numbers McLemore is putting up for a wing player are staggering. I've always been of the mind, if you're a guard putting up staggering numbers in a big program, it speaks more to me than a big doing the same, because an elite big can just physically dominate a game since size is hard to come by in the college game. The Skill and potential he has is only rivaled by Noel, Shabazz and Len. You either haven't seen him play, or don't know how to view the stats in context. ---------- Post added January-25th-2013 at 06:55 PM ---------- Uhh, Z-bo? Rasheed? Gay is essentially a 6-8 JC, do we really want that? And at what price? He would be a marginal improvement over Webster currently. He isn't even all that great a defender, he's not bad, but he does his share of WTF things. Like the IND v. MEM game, he took an eternity to try to get the potential GW off. How the hell does he think he can dribble the ball and turn around in under like 1.7 seconds or w/e it was. Overpaid, a bit? Are you serious? He should be making half of what he's making with his per 36 numbers being what they are. If we get Gay, fine, I can live with being a treadmill team, but acquiring him would be a sellout move. I don't see a 26 year old swingman finally just "getting" it all of a sudden. We certainly don't have the coach to get it out of him either. ---------- Post added January-25th-2013 at 06:56 PM ---------- Uhh, Z-bo? Rasheed? Gay is essentially a 6-8 JC, do we really want that? And at what price? He would be a marginal improvement over Webster currently. He isn't even all that great a defender, he's not bad, but he does his share of WTF things. Like the IND v. MEM game, he took an eternity to try to get the potential GW off. How the hell does he think he can dribble the ball and turn around in under like 1.7 seconds or w/e it was. Overpaid, a bit? Are you serious? He should be making half of what he's making with his per 36 numbers being what they are. If we get Gay, fine, I can live with being a treadmill team, but acquiring him would be a sellout move. I don't see a 26 year old swingman finally just "getting" it all of a sudden. We certainly don't have the coach to get it out of him either.

Well he'll have luke ridinour on him, so it should be a decent home start for him I imagine. Good news though, management finally realizing Wall's time should be spent with Beal and Webster, not Ariza and JC.