seantaylor=god

3 minutes ago, DiscoBob said:

 

Can't bail the 49ers out of that situation.  If we get in the 3rd round, and the 9ers wanna talk, fine.... but the value just isn't there when the team that gets him has to throw him tons of $$$.

 

There has been a shift in the league where rookie WRs are hitting early.  Don't be the sucker who gives up high draft picks, and a big contact for a vet WR (exclusions for a very small number of players - Chase, Jefferson, Lamb....)

Yeah the max I would trade back to SF is the SF comp pick in late 3rd. 

12 minutes ago, DogofWar1 said:

 

I kinda hope Cooper lasts until 36 because imo that feels like a gimme pick.  Clear BPA and in a position(s) of some need.  So you can feel good about it while seeing what's there at 40. 

Cooper DeJean  is the slam dunk pick, I’m praying he’s there. It’s a perfect fit. Plus he gives you return value.

I know we need a OT but we CAN’T reach on a guy when a blue chip player like Cooper is there. 

1 hour ago, BayouBrave86 said:

It’s not about the QB we draft tonight, it’s about the journey and friends we made along the way in this thread.

Maybe the prize wasn’t Drake Maye or Jayden Daniels or JJ at all. Maybe the prize was learning to trust the FO again after heartbreak.

And Penix.

5 minutes ago, DogofWar1 said:

I'm gonna go ahead and blame Jayden's mom for him being so skinny.

 

She's a good punching bag for blame for things, ASU violations, dissatisfaction with TopGolf, so let's add in that Jayden doesn't eat enough.

 

Send that kid to a Korean BBQ or five.  Get him some Bon Chon.  Take him to Badd Pizza and Lost Dog Cafe.

 

We'll turn him into Anthony Richardson yet.

Lost Dog Cafe! I loved that place. I bought my wife a sandwich from there after my kid was born in Arlington. Haven’t thought about that place in 10 years. Relocated to the PNW that same year.

10 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

I can’t see IOL being a priority after free agency. Seems obvious which positions we value in day 1 and 2 of the draft.

We didn’t spend big money on anyone. Also, the draft isn’t just for current needs it’s also for needs 2 years from now. 

Deleted

12 minutes ago, e16bball said:

I think the real dividing line between the two sides of this Daniels/Maye debate is in how you weigh 2023 versus prior years.

 

I see a lot of scouting comments (and metrics) that are focused entirely on 2023. Where the most recent data points seem to be overwhelmingly the most important ones. Traditionally, this gets cast aside by "well, that's who he is now" or "so you're saying it's a bad thing that he improved?" From this perspective, Daniels is far and away the better selection, as he was staggeringly good for the last 10 games of his college career. Maye, on the other hand, had 2-3 pretty dicey games to end his career.

 

But where things become tricky for me is that I believe the following statement is undeniably true: If you watched the first 85-90% of Maye's career (his first 25 games) and you watched the first 80-85% of Daniels's career (his first 45 games), there is absolutely no chance that you would have rated Daniels the better player.

 

Considering the overall picture of their respective college careers, it's a very narrow sliver in which Daniels actually exceeds Maye. I have some concern that the draft community as a whole is putting a ton of stock in the last things we've seen -- and forgetting a lot of what came before. Just as one example, this article was previously posted, and it cites serious concerns about Maye and his comparatively poor accuracy. But the stats they're looking at in putting together the big multi-colored graph about completions and on-target rate by distance is based solely on "final college season."

 

But what happens when you take into account "career" rather than just "2023"? All of a sudden, Maye is the career leader among the draft QBs in completion percentage over expectation -- and Jayden finds himself bringing up the rear. So does that go out the window because Jayden was exceptional in his final year? That's the question that I think is dividing everyone more than anything else.

 

 

Great post, thanks.

It’s why this is so difficult. All of these guys CAN do it physically, it’s a question of how often they do it and can they repeat it.
 

My hope is that the QB who performed the best on the board and in any tests looking at reading defenses, football acumen, etc. is our pick from the top 3 guys. Everything else we can work on.

Starting to see on the mocks that pretty much all of the OTs get snatched up before our pick. The good news is if that happens we probably have a shot at a first round DB, WR like Ladd Mc or a guy like JPJ or Graham Barton. 
 

Any thoughts on taking a guy who projects to LG and ultimately OC with a high second? Then taking a more developmental OT later? 
 

Y’all think Graham Barton can actually stick at LT? Arm length isn’t much off of Slater with Chargers.
 

13 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

I am incredibly worried about Daniels' frame. Throw out all of the other issues and noise up to this point, but his body cannot sustain a long NFL career. And he's almost 24, not like he can grow into that frame more. Definitely concerning and my gut feel on Daniels is he ends up being a bust. But I will still root and cheer for him but will continue to hope and pray we either draft Maye or trade down.

I’d try not to worry about it. RG3 PTSD is real but unlike RG3, Jayden has no major injury history, and took big shots in the SEC. 
 

Just enjoy the fun until you can’t anymore lol. 

3 minutes ago, rockluc said:

Don’t give up hope. Maybe he’ll hit puberty over the summer. 😞

Yeah I don’t want to beat a dead horse but he’s so narrow. Even with the weight he’s gained and his best efforts in the weight room he’s just a really thin dude.

Nothing he can do about it, and I’m not sure if there is a correlation between frame and injuries,etc. but it’s the biggest issue with him. 

In the cold as balls video with Kevin Hart, Hart has broader shoulders than him and Hart like like 5’5 lol.

But the game is changing and it seems like QBs are getting smaller. There is less of an emphasis on finding the 6’5, 250 pound guy anymore. It seems like the point guard type is working out pretty well.

Also, while weighing less makes it easier for you to be dragged down and tackled, there is some evidence that smaller, more flexible players actually get less injuries (ACL in particular). And of course, you can’t hit what you can’t catch.

if Daniels is this pick we need to put a huge emphasis in the next few years of building a rock solid oline and lots of weapons, of particular, guys who can get wide open (great route runners). Daniels is extremely acurate, so less emphasis on big guys with largely catch radius and more on route running and YAC, IMO.

Conversely, if we go with Maye I want guys that can play better off schedule with big catch radius.

I can’t wait for Thursday. 
 

Daniels, Maye, or JJ all have great traits and all have high level intangibles. Everyone of their coaches loves them and talks about them like they will be a HOF player. Any one of them could succeed (or fail) and I’m really excited to watch them develop.

37 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

F it. I'm all in on Daniels. He's gonna resurrect this franchise and I can't wait for him to strut all over Parsons and Thibodeaux etc. 

Yeah I’ve been getting there last week or so. Have to trust GMAP and this coaching staff. Should be fun to watch!

1 hour ago, illone said:

He isnt 210. He walks around at 185, 190 max. 

I think he can play at 205. It is what it is, we’ve discussed it a ton. He made it to 210 at the pro day and I think he can keep a lot of that on. He’s never going to be built like Hurts.

My Giants fan buddy said the Athletic is reporting Mara said they need to win with Daniel Jones and that they won’t trade up. Could be a smokescreen, but that’s not a great ownership group so who knows?

3 minutes ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

Possible that our GM told the coach of the Niners who we are drafting? Do you guys say these things out loud before you type them? 😆

He worked with him for years. He was there with him. Whether he said it explicitly or he knows based on discussing QBs for YEARS with him, it’s not crazy.

It was a hypothetical anyway, I’m just speculating on the source.

14 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

If the Giants do end up with Maye, I hope the Pats fleece the heck out of them. Maye with no good supporting cast will fall apart. They already have no receivers and a crappy OL and if they have no picks to address that they will collapse.

That and their coach will be fired, so he will have to learn a new scheme next year.

Chris Simms said he got a text message from someone he trusts who said Maye will not be the Commanders pick at 2.

The obvious person with close ties to both is Kyle Shannahan. Definitely possible GMAP told Shannahan this casually since SF is no threat in draft (or he knows from working with him he didn’t love Maye).

One interesting thing to consider- while Daniels might fit for the majority of teams (coaches and executives concerned with being fired) and a desire for the shiny object, we are pretty uniquely situated amongst teams.

Why? We have a new owner, new GM, and new coach. The “leash” for each is extremely long. Our owner is a proponent of “the process” and wants to build a long term winner and not take short cuts.

Our owner is also fairly young compared to many of the others.

Overall, the negative narrative on Maye is pretty strange. Has there been a prospect recently that is both loved by the PFF/Analytics folks AND has big time traits (old school scouting) AND is young and was really productive?

The knocks on misses the layup throws, while true, is bizarre because his accuracy overall is excellent so if he misses so badly on these that would mean his intermediate and deep/difficult accuracy is actually awesome. Which tells me he can either improve in th easy stuff, and If he doesn’t, you design an offense that just attacks intermediate/ deep and don’t use the RB dump off plays, etc.

I think both can be successful, but I think we are situated for Maye to succeed if the fan base can be patient. He will absolutely flash early, even if he makes rookie mistakes. Considering he lost a year of HS ball to Covid, and only started two years in college, it’s reasonable for him to need some patience and playing time to improve.

My only hope is that Maye doesn’t go to the Vikings. 
 

I think if he goes to New England or Giants he busts due to coach turnover. Both coaches will get fired in the next 2 years, if not before.

4 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

No.  I think they'll have made the best call they could have pre-draft.  Picking Maye is following best practices for drafting a franchise QB, and it's what I would do if I were in charge.  Picking Jayden over him is a super speculative prayer based on bad process, and it's a call I would never make.

 

I can't be better at picking players from my couch than the team I root for, and still maintain faith in the organization.

You should listen to Cooley, just to challenge your own take. He has no agenda, he didn’t watch college football, and when he wants to he dives deep into the film.His player breakdowns were fantastic.

He really likes Maye, for all of the reasons you describe. He concedes he could be the best of the group a few years from now (he was very high on Josh Allen, he’s a tools guy) But I think he is also more realistic about the serious risks/negatives in his film (both feet and above the neck) And he also references watching 2022 film.

Maye has superior arm strength and arm talent, according to Cooley. But he would take Daniels over Caleb and Maye. He wants Maye to improve but he’s too much of a risk/project for him.

You don’t have to agree with any of this. But when Daniels is the pick it might be helpful for you to hear it.

Jon Ledyard WR rankings:

Round 1 - Elite Starters

1. Marvin Harrison Jr., Ohio State
2. Malik Nabers, LSU
3. Rome Odunze, Washington

Round 2 - Good Starters

4. Jermaine Burton, Alabama
5. Ja’Lynn Polk, Washington
6. Troy Franklin, Oregon
7. Brian Thomas, LSU
8. Adonai Mitchell, Texas

Round 3 - Solid Starters/No. 3 Receivers

9. Ladd McConkey, Georgia
10. Xavier Legette, South Carolina
11. Xavier Worthy, Texas
12. Javon Baker, UCF
13. Keon Coleman, Florida State
14. Ricky Pearsall, Florida
15. Roman Wilson, Michigan

Round 4 - Depth/Role Players

16. Devontez Walker, UNC
17. Malik Washington, UVA
18. Malachi Corley, Western Kentucky
19. Jalen McMillan, Washington
20. Brenden Rice, USC

43 minutes ago, DiscoBob said:

Can someone out there brainwash me into liking Daniels, I want to be excited on Thurs night.

 

 

Oh ****, we're screwed 

 

I can't forget that 4 pick game from John Beck

 

 

Listen to Chris Cooley film breakdown on Daniels, Maye, and  JJ, and Caleb it will pump you up.

Also, read about the work Daniels put in last year. He basically lived at the team facility. He is a worker, and he wants to be great. 

51 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

23 going on 24.  It's sort of goes unnoticed about McCarthy which is from what i read he played sub 200 last year but put on 20 pounds before the combine and looked good, so in his case it was doable.

 

I am not a big boned guy myself.  Especially in college i put on weight and muscle without losing speed.  Nothing crazy but I wasn't thin and narrow like Daniels in my 20s or now.  Though Daniels shoulders looked broader at his proday.

 

For myself i don't find broadening shoulders to be that hard.  So it surprises me to see dudes with narrow frames in the draft process. 

 

I also found for myself it was easier to gain weight as i got older including in my 20s.  in high school, i was narrow and thin like Daniels. Obviously everyone is different though. 

Daniels looks bigger. He says he played at 205, and I think he can stay at the 210 (maybe get to 215). But mostly it’s about running less and not taking big shots.

Unlike RG3, he actually is comfortable working in the pocket.

I think it’s important to remember that there are multiple ways a QB can be successful. I’m sure you can imagine the contemporary examples I’m thinking of. Some QBs operate extremely well in structure and are uber efficient, others don’t, but make crazy off schedule plays with great frequency. Some have elite arms, some don’t. Some move in the pocket under pressure and throw, others run. Some run to pass, others run to run. Some have a fastest release, while others have faster processing of defenses. Some make great decisions and others can make some bonehead plays occasionally.
 

A slow release AND slow processing is usually tough to win with, but a heavy read option look could mitigate that by having easy reads and big windows to throw. Obviously a fast release and fast processing is ideal and tough to defend.
 

Weaknesses can be masked by strengths in other areas. Weaknesses can often be improved upon with work if the QB has the intelligence and work ethic. Others can be mitigated by scheme.

A prospect with all the intangibles, work ethic, leadership, an elite arm, elite decision making, extremely fast release, pocket escapability, off schedule play maker who also can operate in a heavy ultra structured timing offense and also make throws from any arm angle, and run, and is 6’6 250, does not exist. There has never been a prospect that has every tool when coming out of college. Mahomes is the only player currently who I would say this applies to and he is on a HOF and best QB of all time trajectory. He did not have every tool coming out of college, he developed.

So it’s about intangibles and what weaknesses we can live with and improve upon.

Just now, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Not worried about it.

 

I'll take Keim at his word who knows some in his camp and he said he's heard that they would like going to Washington.

 

It's different with Antonio Pierce.  He recruited him, he's close to their family, etc.

Yeah, worrying about Daniels signing a second contract is not a worry to me at all. We are talking 5-7 years from now. 
 

By then, he could be married and have multiple kids and have ties to the area, etc. difference between age 23 and 30 is huge.