Mark The Homer Posted May 20, 2005 Share Posted May 20, 2005 I still have my "I like Sonny" button (a friend's Mom gave it to me years ago). Today, I wear it on my ballcap on game day. Amazing how many people see it and don't know what it means... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyhorse1 Posted May 21, 2005 Share Posted May 21, 2005 If somebody had stopped Allen from replacing Sonny with Kilmer, his Skins would have won multiple championships. Allen's ego was too fragile to share victories with Sonny; when the Skins won with a lame passer like Kilmer, Allen got the glory. He was a putz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarhog Posted May 22, 2005 Author Share Posted May 22, 2005 Originally posted by Crazyhorse1 If somebody had stopped Allen from replacing Sonny with Kilmer, his Skins would have won multiple championships. Allen's ego was too fragile to share victories with Sonny; when the Skins won with a lame passer like Kilmer, Allen got the glory. He was a putz. Theres some truth in that, but some falsehood too. Allen favored Kilmer mostly because he followed his coaches instructions and game plan. By his own admission, Sonny would occasionally change the plays sent in and deviate from the game plan. That didn't sit well with Allen. Allen wasn't a 'take your chances in the air' kind of a coach. He wanted to score enough to win, and let his defense make it stick. It was simply a matter of a player's skills not matching the coaches overall philosophy, thats all. Its also true that Allen could be very very petty. As has been mentioned, he wouldn't allow Jurgensen on the field during SB VII. He was relegated to a box seat where he really couldn't be a part of the game. From everything I've read, Jurgensen never really forgave him for that. Where you lose your way is asserting that they would have reached the promised land multiple times if only Allen had stuck with Jurgensen. Jurgy was brittle as hell by the time Allen came to Washington. He was out with injuries more often than not. Allen had nothing to do with it. When Jurgy was healthy, he mostly played. When he wasn't, Kilmer obviously got the nod. I agree that Allen clearly liked Kilmer more. But I don't think he allowed it to cloud his judgement over who put them in the best position to win games. And Kilmer was far from a lame passer. Thats just grossly inaccurate. He put up good numbers and he did so over a long career. He was an UGLY passer, but thats not the same thing. And Allen a putz? He was a flawed man, like all of us, but I don't think Jurgensen would call him that. Thats just taking a shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjbrown Posted May 22, 2005 Share Posted May 22, 2005 Great Post. I used to have an "Over the Hill Gang" cartoon poster. Brings back good memories. Thanks - Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins4SB Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 Wow, he is born on the same day as I. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bird_1972 Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 Tarhog, Honestly some of the best writing I've seen by anyone on this site. You and TK deserve plentiful accolades for putting these player profiles together. Keep up the good work! -J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarhog Posted May 25, 2005 Author Share Posted May 25, 2005 Originally posted by bird_1972 Tarhog, Honestly some of the best writing I've seen by anyone on this site. You and TK deserve plentiful accolades for putting these player profiles together. Keep up the good work! -J Thanks bird, those are kind words! We're glad to do it and happy you guys are enjoying them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-Dog Night Posted May 25, 2005 Share Posted May 25, 2005 Backing up the reliable Brodie until 1967, Kilmer was replaced on the 49er’s bench by Steve Spurrier I did not know that. Kinda like, wow, man. Great job to all who helped put this together! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denverdan Posted May 25, 2005 Share Posted May 25, 2005 :notworthy thanks again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woofer Posted May 29, 2005 Share Posted May 29, 2005 Originally posted by Tarhog Thats an interesting question. I didn't focus on some of the controversial aspects of the guy in the article. He was arrested on a DUI charge, and another time I think was arrested for a scuffle with a DC waitress (think he'd given her 100 bucks at a diner for a $4-$5 bill and she refused to give him his change?). I didn't see the point of putting it in, particularly because I couldn't confirm all the details. Would be interesting to see how that would play nowadays. No doubt, if Jurgy and Kilmer were around today, their carousing and partying would be all over the media, and we'd be heatedly debating their 'commitment' But its part of what made them memorable too. It's a different world now. Jurgy used to play all the time with hangovers. I suppose a lot of players did. Do you think they could... a) get away with it today? if the coaches let them on the field at all, do you think they would survive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarhog Posted May 29, 2005 Author Share Posted May 29, 2005 Originally posted by Woofer Magoo It's a different world now. Jurgy used to play all the time with hangovers. I suppose a lot of players did. Do you think they could... a) get away with it today? if the coaches let them on the field at all, do you think they would survive? I honestly don't know. I think one factor is that Jurgy and Kilmer weren't being paid a king's ransom during the peak of their careers. No NFL players were. As long as a player got it done on the field and was a team guy overall, I think they were given more latitude. Whether right or wrong, when you are shelling out an enormous amount of money for a player - to the point where they almost become a 'brand name' for your franchise, much more than just a star player, the expectations rise proportionately. I almost feel like today, because of the money factor, players walk a much finer line between star status and extreme resentment if they go astray. In Jurgy's day, some off-the-field exploits endeared you to the fans, made you a 'colorful character'. Nowadays, that kind of stuff has a more ominous tone, especially if it impacts your on-the-field performance at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Om Posted May 29, 2005 Share Posted May 29, 2005 Absolutely, 100% correct. We've all heard the stories about Babe Ruth's off-field behavior---by all accounts he was a first-rate lush and womanizer, at best---yet he was treated then, and remains now, essentially an untouchable legend. Put him into today's fishbowl, he'd be the subject of such tabloid and internet mania as to be considered a profane, character-less example of how NOT to live a public life by a large percentage of the population. It's raises in interesting question: has something been lost, or gained? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba9497 Posted May 30, 2005 Share Posted May 30, 2005 Originally posted by Om Absolutely, 100% correct. We've all heard the stories about Babe Ruth's off-field behavior---by all accounts he was a first-rate lush and womanizer, at best---yet he was treated then, and remains now, essentially an untouchable legend. Put him into today's fishbowl, he'd be the subject of such tabloid and internet mania as to be considered a profane, character-less example of how NOT to live a public life by a large percentage of the population. It's raises in interesting question: has something been lost, or gained? Society during that time actually relished those traits in their stars. Squeaky clean guys where considered weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatGuy Posted May 31, 2005 Share Posted May 31, 2005 Great work. I've really enjoyed all the installments. Any thoughts on making a seperate forum for just these 'Legend' threads go (once they are dropping off in Fed Ex) for easy access for users. I'm sure new members would love to have a place where all these could be found. Just an idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Om Posted May 31, 2005 Share Posted May 31, 2005 Originally posted by ThatGuy Great work. I've really enjoyed all the installments. Any thoughts on making a seperate forum for just these 'Legend' threads go (once they are dropping off in Fed Ex) for easy access for users. I'm sure new members would love to have a place where all these could be found. Just an idea. They're archived on the front page at the moment ... http://extremeskins.com/index.php FYI, there are site changes in the works that will present these and other features in new and more accessible ways, so please bear with us in the interim. And thanks for the feedback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinBaby Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 :eaglesuck To bad we cant get players that play like Kilmer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobJanis Posted September 8, 2005 Share Posted September 8, 2005 Great story. Great job of research too. You know, Kilmer is a modest guy. When I interviewed him he didn't understand why I wanted to do a story. And he and Jurgy really turned out to be a good combo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ncsuapex Posted September 8, 2005 Share Posted September 8, 2005 Great article. As much as I like Sonny it seems Billy is often overlooked and forgotten by most Skins fan. Thanks for reminding us all about his accomplishments and what he did for the Skins back in the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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