What Makes A Great Receiver?

[Califan007 The Constipated]

With all the debates going on about Patten's size and age, I thought I'd throw this question out about receivers in general:

If a receiver could ONLY have two of the following traits, which two would you want your #1 receiver to have (assume they'll be "average" in the other two catagories):

1) Big Size

2) Amazing Speed

3) Great Hands

4) Precise Routes

[Warhead36]

The most important thing obviously is HANDS. You have to catch the ball even when the throw may not be perfect. Your job is to catch the ball, you better have good hands.

After that I'd have to say route running. If speed were so very important we'd see more track stars try out for WR. It doesn't matter how fast you run if you can't run a 5 yard in pattern with the proper timing and mechanics.

After hands and route running anything else is probably just a bonus. Speed, size, jumping, blocking, etc.

So for your stated question, I'll take hands and route running.

[RedDawg36]

Hands and size, man. Because often size is indicative of strength and often the kind of force you can impose on a DB.

Route running is overrated like I don't know what. If you can run deep, run across the field, run a slant and comeback, you're pretty much set.

Speed is nice but EXTREMELY overrated also. You only need great speed on a low % of routes.

What's the most common route in football? I'd hazard a guess at, let's say, a slant or a five yard in-route. In neither of those routes would you really need great speed. It may help but what you'd really need is good hands and size to establish position on a DB.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Size won't matter too much if the receiver isn't where he's supposed to be...I'll take hands and route running.

[zoony]

1. Fearlessness

2. Smarts

3. Attitude

4. Speed/Hands/Route Running/Athletic ability

[Tae Bo]

ON FIELD PRODUCTION

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Originally posted by zoony

1. Fearlessness

2. Smarts

3. Attitude

4. Speed/Hands/Route Running/Athletic ability

I have a cousin who's fearless, smart as hell and has sh*tloads of attitude...but he couldn't catch a football if you covered his hands with Crazy Glue...lol

[RedDawg36]

Originally posted by Califan007

Size won't matter too much if the receiver isn't where he's supposed to be...I'll take hands and route running.

Route running won't matter too much if you're 4ft tall.

Gimme a break. Yeah you can pull out the extreme's but here's the point:

EVERY SINGLE RECEIVER in this league can run a route. A deep, a post, a curl, a slant, whatever. Some run a little crisper, some break better, and some time it better, but they can all do it and if the balls put in position, they can then catch it.

But not every single receiver has good size and there are few small ones who have big time success. You can't outmuscle DBs and you can't outjump them.

Route running is the most overrated part of playing receiver. The only way you can make a case for it is if a WR TOTALLY can not run a route, i.e. runs a slant on an intended deep route.

That, however, is pure stupidity.

[RedDawg36]

Originally posted by zoony

1. Fearlessness

2. Smarts

3. Attitude

4. Speed/Hands/Route Running/Athletic ability

Here's an idea of how your "Top WR" list would look.

1. Rod Smith

2. Jerry Rice

3. David Patten

4. Randy Moss

Not quite.

[Mad Mike]

Originally posted by RedDawg36

Hands and size, man. Because often size is indicative of strength and often the kind of force you can impose on a DB.

Route running is overrated like I don't know what. If you can run deep, run across the field, run a slant and comeback, you're pretty much set.

Speed is nice but EXTREMELY overrated also. You only need great speed on a low % of routes.

What's the most common route in football? I'd hazard a guess at, let's say, a slant or a five yard in-route. In neither of those routes would you really need great speed. It may help but what you'd really need is good hands and size to establish position on a DB.

Bwaaaaaahahahahah. :laugh:

Rout running.... overated..... bwaaahahaha. You so funny!

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Originally posted by RedDawg36

Route running won't matter too much if you're 4ft tall.

Gimme a break. Yeah you can pull out the extreme's but here's the point:

EVERY SINGLE RECEIVER in this league can run a route. A deep, a post, a curl, a slant, whatever. Some run a little crisper, some break better, and some time it better, but they can all do it and if the balls put in position, they can then catch it.

But not every single receiver has good size and there are few small ones who have big time success. You can't outmuscle DBs and you can't outjump them.

Route running is the most overrated part of playing receiver. The only way you can make a case for it is if a WR TOTALLY can not run a route, i.e. runs a slant on an intended deep route.

That, however, is pure stupidity.

Henry Ellard was 5' 11" and one helluva route runner...he was the most consistent receiver on the Skins squad while he was here, and something like 90% of his catches were for 1st downs.

Micheal Westbrook was 6-3, 220 lbs...

I still think I'll stick with hands and route running.

[dfbovey]

I rate the attributes

1- Route running

2- Speed

3- Hands

4- Size

Good route running means selling the route to get open, not just running a curl or whatever in a precise manner. Look at guys like Tory Holt and Marvin Harrison and the way they run routes. A simple headfake gets them open by 5 yards with their speed.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Originally posted by dfbovey

I rate the attributes

1- Route running

2- Speed

3- Hands

4- Size

Good route running means selling the route to get open, not just running a curl. Look at guys like Tory Holt and Marvin Harrison and the way they run routes. A simple head move gets them open by 5 yards with their speed.

True...excellent route running and speed can make size less important...

[Tae Bo]

what do people mean by route running? Are you talking about quickness and the ability to create separation out of a break or are you talking about being technically precise in your routes ie running a 10 yard hook every time instead of running a 9 yard hook one time and a 12 yard hook another

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Originally posted by RedDawg36

Here's an idea of how your "Top WR" list would look.

1. Rod Smith

2. Jerry Rice

3. David Patten

4. Randy Moss

Not quite.

:laugh: Good point...

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Originally posted by Tae Bo

what do people mean by route running? Are you talking about quickness and the ability to create separation out of a break or are you talking about being technically precise in your routes ie running a 10 yard hook every time instead of running a 9 yard hook one time and a 12 yard hook another

I think it's both...great routes combine the ability to be precisely where the QB expects you to be when he expects you to be there, as well as running it in a way that can make the db bite and give separation.

[Buck812]

One who makes great plays.

[RedDawg36]

Originally posted by Mad Mike

Bwaaaaaahahahahah. :laugh:

Rout running.... overated..... bwaaahahaha. You so funny!

Would you rather have a guy who can catch everything thrown at him (Moss) or a guy that runs a nice route, like Brandon Stokley?

A guy who is physically gifted and can outmuscle DBs and outjump them, like Andre Johnson, or that guy running nice routes?

The thing with route running is that it requires a lot of your QB to put the ball in the right place.

The reason hands and size are much more idealistic traits of a WR is because guys like Moss and Andre Johnson with the hands and size, perhaps not routes, dominate opposition and make catches where the ball isn't where it should be and look sometimes impossible, e.g. Moss in the back of the end zone reaching OVER CBs and grabbing the ball.

[zoony]

Originally posted by Califan007

I have a cousin who's fearless, smart as hell and has sh*tloads of attitude...but he couldn't catch a football if you covered his hands with Crazy Glue...lol

touche'... I guess I should elaborate a little.

Many great college receivers who have all the physical attributes and talent fail miserably in the NFL. And many receivers that aren't the most gifted physically end up thriving in the NFL

I think what seperates a successful WR from a non-successful WR in the NFL is the mental game.

Take Gary Clark. Certainly not the biggest, certainly not the strongest off the line, never the fastest... came out of a no name school in the Shenandoah Valley... but his mental game was there 110%

1. The guy was crazy tough...fearless accross the middle

2. He was smart, and he picked up on the intricacies of Joe's offense

3. Do I even need to comment on his attitude and heart? How hard that guy used to work?

Counterpoint, take Michael Westbrook...

The list goes on... but compile a list of the greatest WR's in the history of the game, and I think you'll come up with a list that fills out my first 3 criteria quite nicely.

And finally... I'm not discounting athletic ability at all, no offense to your cousin It's just that at the NFL level everyone is a good athlete. You don't make it that far if you are not. But to make a "great" wide receiver?

It's the mental game, pure and simple.

....

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Originally posted by zoony

touche'... I guess I should elaborate a little.

Many great college receivers who have all the physical attributes and talent fail miserably in the NFL. And many receivers that aren't the most gifted physically end up thriving in the NFL

I think what seperates a successful WR from a non-successful WR in the NFL is the mental game.

Take Gary Clark. Certainly not the biggest, certainly not the strongest off the line, never the fastest... came out of a no name school in the Shenandoah Valley... but his mental game was there 110%

1. The guy was crazy tough...fearless accross the middle

2. He was smart, and he picked up on the intricacies of Joe's offense

3. Do I even need to comment on his attitude and heart? How hard that guy used to work?

Counterpoint, take Michael Westbrook...

The list goes on... but compile a list of the greatest WR's in the history of the game, and I think you'll come up with a list that fills out my first 3 criteria quite nicely.

And finally... I'm not discounting athletic ability at all, no offense to your cousin It's just that at the NFL level everyone is a good athlete. You don't make it that far if you are not. But to make a "great" wide receiver?

It's the mental game, pure and simple.

....

Very good points, sir...

[atloldskin]

In today's NFL:

1) Route running and brains (timing is everything--A receiver must be where he is suppose to be and read blitzes)

2) Hands (everyone is covered; good hands are essential)

3) Size (being able to get off the line and create seperation)

4) Speed (everyone has speed in the NFL, but two tenths in the 40 does not automatically seperate anybody. Quickness is more important than speed. 10 yard speed is more important than 40 yard speed).

[RedDawg36]

You've got it all wrong by suggesting that in "today's NFL", you need that order. In today's NFL, the league in which you get a 15-yard penalty for breathing on a receiver, size would be more important than routes.

In a good match up of WR vs cover corner in an NFL without such stupid "defensive pass int" penalties, you would need good hands and route running. You can get out of your breaks and catch the ball against someone covering you blanket-style.

But nowadays, having good hands and size are the two key things to have. You don't gotta run perfect routes AT ALL. You can down the field and no matter where the pass is headed, use your size to joust position with the CB and 9.5/10 you'll get the opposition a yellow flag.

Or if you're in the red zone, I seen countless amounts of time last season a receiver running the fade, a guy that is much bigger and stronger than 180lb CBs, just literally maul all over them and catch the ball.

AND THEY GET AWAY WITH IT!

[Tae Bo]

Randy Moss

Hines Ward

Jimmy Smith

three receivers with very different strengths, all successful.