must sign jansen

[bsmsss]

this is the lineman we should be signing not some aging vet after june 1 jansen is a free agent next yr--the hardest postion on the oline to find great players is offensive tackle--we have 2 very very good ones--maybe best pair in nfl--we can always find a guard--32 out of the starting 64 guards have been drafted in rounds 4-7--while 40 tackles out of 64 starting in the nfl have been drafted in rounds 1 ans 2--thus we must sign jansen over any over the hill guard--

if we lose him we will be very weak and it might take another 10 yrs to find a dominate right tackle--

so mendes and danny better resign him--a guard can be found any time--we found our 2 starting guards who helped davis gain 1300 yrs in august --try finding a tackle in august--no way jose---

sign jansen now-

[SlobberknockerSkinsFan]

I agree.....As a Michigan fan I got to enjoy him a little more. He's another reason why the A-Train is/was so good, and can only help Stephen Davis out in the future. Resign him.:deal:

HAIL TO THE REDSKINS

HAIL VICTORY

:notworthy

[NavyDave]

I agree.

If it comes down to it I'd be more happy extending Jansen now and rolling the dice with Brandt and the kids to play LG.

We have to start taking care of our own before contract year comes up.

I mean we know champ is great so it would be stupid not to extend him before the final season comes into play and you know the bidding war will be there.

[@DCGoldPants]

Holy Crap.

(To the tune of the 90's classic...Firestarter)

"You're the topic starter......precious topic starter"

[shamaran]

All signs are pointing to Jansen wanting out. I'll be surprised to see him resign with the Redskins--very surprised!

Bailey too is probably going to be trouble; I hear he was a no-show at the Park yesterday too. 'Did not hear that it was excused either.

[Thinking Skins]

Interesting...A few days ago, I saw an article in the Washington Post about the Redskins beginning deliberations with Jansen. Now I'm seeing articles in ESPN about us not having started negotiating with him. Somebody's gotta be lying.

Here is the post article, I know its been posted before, but I dont want to make you search through the archives.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A23902-2002May2&notFound=true

and the ESPN one is at:

http://football.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=was

???

And Whats the Little down arrow next to the topic mean?

[rtandler]

I see the dreaded Franchise Player tag being slapped on Jansen. Don't think the Skins could clear up enough cap space this summer to re-up him before the season starts.

Even if they could clear the space, I would think that Jansen would want to spend a year in Spurrier's offense before deciding if this is where he wants to spend the prime of his career.

[Die Hard]

blakman211 -

And Whats the Little down arrow next to the topic mean?

It's a feature that will take you directly to the first unread post. Meaning... if the thread had 15 posts since the last time you read it... and since then there's 26 posts... it'll take you directyl to post #16.

[redman]

As nice as Jansen is to have, he's not essential to our success the way that a good QB, LT, DT or CB is. Good right tackles are much easier to find than those positions, and you don't need great ones to have a solid line and a good team. Our team has had a number of good RT's in the last decade, including Lachey and Ed Simmons and Ray Brown. However poor we've been on offense during that time, we've never had any particular problems running the ball that I thought weren't more related to either RB or passing game problems than the O-line. And I never thought during that time that we were one RT away from a solid offense, even before Jansen's arrival.

I hope Jansen stays. He's a credit to our team, and his toughness is up there with anyone's on our team. But it would be foolish to break the bank at this point by extending a RT, when we have nothing as of yet but unproven (or average, in the case of Matthews) QB's, one all-pro caliber D-lineman, not to mention question marks at LG and WR and even safety.

If Jansen doesn't understand that the salary cap mandates that the team prioritize its needs, and that sometimes those needs don't necessarily match up with its desire to be loyal to good players, then so be it. As the saying goes, "it's only business."

[Thinking Skins]

come to think of it, I'm really agreeing with you redman. Why should we pay all this money for Jansen? We have prospects in camp. As I remember the hard thing to find is a good LT, but I remember in Norv's hayday that we could put almost anybody in there to play it (like Poor-danish). I think we need to save the money for Samuels when he becomes a free agent.

[fish]

This stuff is starting to drive me crazy. To even think about letting Davis, Jansen, Baily go is just CRAZY.

Doesn't anybody remember the abortion that was known as our OTs? Does Shar Podarnesh (sp?) ring a bell?

We have to pick a few players and positions that the team is built around. If OT, RB i.e., Davis and Jansen aren't on that list.........then we have a weak-a$$ list.

Whatever.

[fish]

This all goes back to having a rookie (kinda) hands on owner and a rotating coaching staff. The lack of stability in the front office is part of the friction we are seeing now.

We just have to weather this storm somehow while keeping the core of our talent base. Hopefully we can do that while, at the minimum, staying competitive, and at the best, improving. A tough task. we'll see how it goes.

The one thing SS will do while we go through that, is he'll keep it entertaining.

[Thinking Skins]

Dont get me wrong, I'm not just saying kick him to the curb. I just dont think that we are in a position to give him the money he deserves. Let one of those left handed QB teams like Jacksonville do that. If he's willing to come back for moderate salary, then of corse you try to keep the tackle dynasty in tact, but you dont mortgage the future for one guy....especially if he's not at a NEED position.

[Montilar]

Our team has had a number of good RT's in the last decade, including Lachey and Ed Simmons and Ray Brown.

Um, I remember Lachey being about the best LEFT tackle there was. (He would of been a hall of famer until the dreaded injury bug killed his career.) And Ray Brown was a guard.....

All were good players, with Brown and Simmons under appreciated.

However if you think solid RT's are a dime a dozen, remember shar Pourdanish, Joe Patton, the Brad Badger at LT experiment (he wouldn't of been any better at RT).

Sad to say, the skins OL has been a revolving door way to much since the Gibbs era. Gibbs had some turnover, but he was able to develop depth (pre-free agency, I know) to go along with the occasional vet pick-up (I'm thinking of that guard that came over from atlanta for a few years - Theileman or something similar???)

Post Gibbs, there hasn't been any continuity to speak of. At least one (and usually more than one) of the starter spots has been a question mark or a new starter just about every year. So when you get someone good, you ought to make every effort to keep him.

[redman]

Fish, are you honestly telling me that you would not trade Jansen for all, or even any of the following, because the salary cap means we have to make decisions between positions and players we must pursue:

- a franchise WR;

- a franchise DT, or at least a solid run-stopping DT;

- a franchise DE;

- a franchise QB.

All of those are actual areas of need for us. In addition, we also need:

- a LG;

- playmaking safety.

And don't give me this Shar Pourdanesh stuff. Our mistake was sticking with him too long, not to mention being plagued with mediocre or poor QB's, and problems virtually all along the o-line. And Terry Allen still managed to be a very good runner for us.

Yes, I want Jansen, but it's got to be at our price, not his.

[fish]

Redman,

No I'm not saying that at all primarily due to the fact I don't see a situation that you describe.

Some Background: I'm one of those guys that consider the lines the base of any football team. Within that, on the offensive side, I consider the tackles the most important position followed closely by the center. For years we were looking and looking for the storied "bookend" tackles. Montilar describes it better in his post when he lists the projects of Shar, Patten, Badger etc, the rotating line we had. I remember those days and hated it. The last 3 years Davis has ran for 1,000 yards, the ONLY Redskin back to do so. Is Jon Jansen the ONLY reason we were able to do that? No. But he is DEF a part of the solution NOT the problem and if we should loose him, we got a problem. Now, I don't claim to be an expert in SS's offense and loosing him could possibly have less drastic impact on the team as it would have had in years past. I don't know.

Now to your question: If we could make one trade, Jansen for a "franchise" WR, DT, DE and QB well then of course I would do that. In a heart beat. I don't see that happening though. Do you? Now, would I do it for a one-for-one swap of the positions listed above? Not just no but hell no! The only position I would do that for 3 months ago is QB, but I don't think we even have to do that now but I also don't see that happening either. What QBs out there do you think are "franchise"? Farve? Warner? Manning? Now, do you see any of those teams trading thier QBs for Jon Jansen?

I don't.

If we could find a franchise DE or DT well, that would be cool and all but then we'd be back to looking for our RT. That seems like robbing Peter to pay Paul. And I DEF wouldn't do it for a WR unless we are talking Jerry Rice of 10 years ago type of guy. Who out there, THAT IS AVAILABLE, could fill that role? I think our "need" for another safety is overblown. We can make it through the season with what we have.

I will give you that Shar Pourdanesh stuff. While I was a fan of Terry Allen, he was just OK in my book. He personally he was better than average but the O-line held him back. How times did we go to the playoffs with that O-line?

Of course it all comes down to $ and I agree totally with you on that. For example, we were not gonna pay Raymer the money he could get from San Diego. If we are miles and miles away from signing Jansen (top RT money vs what we have available cap-wise) then yeah we should probably look at trading him especially if it looks like we're gonna loose him anyway but then that hole becomes a need. And what do you get with a trade? Sometimes ya just don't know. But we do know that Jansen is a stud. He has played EVERY game, is a good locker room guy and has ZERO off field issues.

I agree with you 100% that in toady's cap present NFL, we need to "make decisions between positions and players we must pursue". Where we apparently disagree is what positions are important. I believe both lines (see above) are important as are QB and CB. Do I want to break the bank on one player? Of course not but I do want to figure out a way to keep Jansen.

He's one of my favorite Skins and I see him along with LaVar, Samuels, Davis, Champ & Smoot and hopefully Sage and/or Ramsey as who we build our team around both position-wise and the particular players involved. Quality men, quality players, important positions.

[SPare]

The value that Jansen really gives us is not so much his skill on the field (which is significant) but instead is his leadership. Every article that you read about other players referring to him, they say something that is positive about his leadership abilities.

I do not want to use this as an either or thing, but in some ways, he may be more valuable than Samuels, precisely for this reason of leadership. Yes, Samuels has more talent, at a more crucial position, but it could be that Jansen gives a bigger performance boost to the entire team than does Samuels.

Finally, letting him go sends exactly the wrong message in terms of the kind of team that this will be. It sends the message that we will pay for other teams' washed up stars, but will not keep our own core players. And make no mistake, he is one of the core players.

[Thinking Skins]

I thought he wasnt a vocal leader just going in and playing. Leading through his work on the field. If thats the case then I wouldnt say that he's something like the guy that the other OL members go to for inspiration. So I dont think that his leadership is really that much of an issue.

[theposse]

The core to the team now (and for the future) I think is:

Arrington, Bailey, Samuels, Trotter, Smoot, S. Davis, Jansen. With these 7 guys who are all at Pro-Bowl levels (Smoot soon), and are young (except Davis, who is still in his prime) that is a tremendous foundation to be great for years to come. I think you try hard to keep the core guys on your team because they've done it for YOUR team successfully. If you lose Jansen, and just think we can pick up a similarly skilled player at another position, you're taking more of a chance. Of course Trotter hasn't done anything for us yet, but I think that was a good move because it was a very rare case of somebody that good and that young being available.

On the other hand, I don't think Jansen is going to want to sign before this year starts. He apparently has been unhappy with all the constant coaching changing going on, and I would think he'd like to see if it's in fact going to settle down now, and also what it's like being in SS's offense. If it's lots of passing all the time and not much running, that's probably less fun for a tackle. However if they start scoring a lot and the team does well, that cures a lot of ills. So, if the 'skins can sign him for what he's worth this summer- great, but I doubt it will happen. If it doesn't, the 'skins just need to have a good year, have Spurrier make it feel like there's stability for the future, and then Jansen will presumably want to stay in DC more and be more willing to stay with the 'skins for a good contract rather than necessarily search for the very highest someone is willing to pay him somewhere else.

[OrangeSkin]

I doubt a deal will be worked out before this season. We are working more on a managable Adams deal and a possible flurry of signings after June 1st (Brown, Jackson?) We need this guy though, he is an anchor.

[NavyDave]

I rather see us get just a decent DT and extend Jansen and Champ ASAP after we say bye bye to Coleman

[Atlanta Skins Fan]

I also agree we need to extend Jansen before the season. One contributing factor is that I can see the Ravens making a hard run at him in free agency.

The Ravens could offer Jansen the ability to stay in the local area. The Ravens would also be thrilled to yank Jansen away from the Skins, considering how Snyder did the same thing in getting Marvin Lewis. There seems to be a lot of bad blood developing between the teams at the upper level.

The Ravens certainly need a new RT. They've been publicly humiliated twice in a row recently by RTs who appeared set to sign with the Ravens, then signed elsewhere. Marcus Spears actually had a verbal agreement in place before signing with the Chiefs. Now Roman Oben did the same thing, and signed with the Bucs.

This is now becoming a major embarrassment for the Ravens. I could easily see them signing a stiff to a one-year deal and then making a major move to sign Jansen in the offseason. It would erase the humiliation of this offseason, and offer major revenge against the team that took Lewis. Art Modell is just the guy to make business personal.