method man Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 Largely, Joe Bugel has been a bust this season as a coach. However, one area where he has done a good job is with the development of Mark Wilson and Jim Molinaro. Wilson looked good in the Pitt game and gave up only 1 sack against the best D in the league. Molinaro is better than Wilson. He has developed faster and he has shown, in his limited playing time, that he has the potential to start here. Remember the Atlanta game in the preseason where he dominated Patrick Kearney in the 1st half? Only the coaches can give the most accurate evaluation of how good these guys really are. I can see Samuels getting cut or traded because he is a greedy **** who wants more than he actually deserves. I am not saying Molinaro will be anywhere as good as Samuels but he will be good enough for next season. Bugel said that he is going to work these guys hard (meaning intense training regimens) so Molinaro could have good support next to him in Dockery (who still has the mentality of a tackle; if he can develop his lower body, then he will become a much better pass blocker). You also have to love Molinaro's size (6'6", 310) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselPwr44 Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 Call me crazy but I believe Wilson and Molinaro just may be part of the Oline solution next year. Does anyone know if either can play center or maybe switch to guard? That might be a change we might see to get one or even both of them on the field......depending on whether Dockery gets his act together or not. :2cents: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimster Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 but he's not actually starting then? I agree there is promise for the two young guys, but we'll have to wait and see next season. - I think Bugel may have wanted them to watch and get in NFL condition for a yearr first. I wonder how Samuels would do at LG if we got another LT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
method man Posted December 31, 2004 Author Share Posted December 31, 2004 there is no point in having samuels play LG. in today's NFL it is not feasible to have 9 mil guards. My point is that Samuels is doing a good job at LT but he is not worth 9 mil. If he does not restructure or sign a fair deal then I think we should dump him and start Molinaro. diesel, I do not think Wilson and Molinaro can play center and I would doubt their talents a bit at guard. Dockery is an example of someone who converted from tackle to guard. Dockery has trouble holding up against defensive tackles because he does not have the strength or technique to take on them. I think something similar would happen with Wilson and Molinaro. We drafted them to play tackle so we should focus on their development as tackles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 Bugel is at his best when you give him raw 7th round type projects and let him mold them. Yeah you could call him a bust as coach but which coach on the offense hasn't been a bust? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimster Posted January 1, 2005 Share Posted January 1, 2005 Originally posted by method man there is no point in having samuels play LG. in today's NFL it is not feasible to have 9 mil guards. My point is that Samuels is doing a good job at LT but he is not worth 9 mil. If he does not restructure or sign a fair deal then I think we should dump him and start Molinaro. diesel, I do not think Wilson and Molinaro can play center and I would doubt their talents a bit at guard. Dockery is an example of someone who converted from tackle to guard. Dockery has trouble holding up against defensive tackles because he does not have the strength or technique to take on them. I think something similar would happen with Wilson and Molinaro. We drafted them to play tackle so we should focus on their development as tackles I'm not purposing that we pay Samuels $9 million to do anything on this team - Him being on this team next year is assuming he re-does his deal. What I am curious about is, that Samuels has had trouble keeping weight on every year as the season progresses and usually drops below 300 by this time every year. That, and the fact he is fairly strong and athletic, I wonder if he would be a stud at LG, like Jacoby was late in his career. - I realize this would be a long shot to ever happen because 1, Samuels would have to agree to doing it, and 2, we'd have to find a mauler to put next to him at LT, but that along with Jansen back and a FA center could be real close to re-creating the modern day Hogs:logo: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.M. Fletch Posted January 1, 2005 Share Posted January 1, 2005 Good players make good coaches...not the other way around. Bugel needs good players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inmate running the asylum Posted January 1, 2005 Share Posted January 1, 2005 Originally posted by I.M. Fletch Good players make good coaches...not the other way around. Bugel needs good players. I wouldn't agree with that statement. I think it works both ways, provided the coach prides himself on being a "teacher." Look what Greg Williams has done with no-names on defense; guys like Demetric Evans, Joe Salave'a, Ron Warner, Chris Clemons, Ryan Clark, Lamar Marshall, Antonio Pierce, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Hog Posted January 1, 2005 Share Posted January 1, 2005 I'm personally not comfortable with starting Molinaro at LT. Think about it. Do we really want an unproven 2nd year player protecting the blindside of a quarterback in Patrick Ramsey, who many believe is the future of this franchise? I just think that LT is a far too important of a position to be taking risks of this nature. You need stability at that spot entering a season. I personally don't think the problem is Samuels. Because of his contract numbers, people make him out to always be the culprit. Provided his contract was reasonable, I'd be willing to bet that there is not one person on this board who would say to start Molinaro over him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosperity Posted January 1, 2005 Share Posted January 1, 2005 Well we could move Jansen to LT and send the new T the other side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scruffylookin Posted January 1, 2005 Share Posted January 1, 2005 This is too funny. We spend a decade looking for a legit LT to replace Jim Lachey (remember Mo Elewonibi and Joe Patton anyone?) and now we have one and there's a segment of fans out there who want to cut Chris Samuels and insert Jim Molinaro who's not even playing?:doh: Of course after Patrick gets sent to the hospital next season after a blind side blast and we get saddled with Brunell again, these same folks will be screaming we need to draft a LT and hope this rookie is as good as Samuels. Samuels has been a good left tackle. He's not Ogden but he's been pretty good (especially with the turnover of offenses he's had to deal with). He had one bad year (2003) and guess what, the "sainted" Jon Jansen was every bit as bad or worse in 2003 as Chris was. I hope we do renogotiate his contract, but no only for cap relief, because we have a very good NFL left tackle and should keep him a Redskin for the balance of his career.:2cents: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDSKNfaithfull Posted January 1, 2005 Share Posted January 1, 2005 Its great that you observed Wilson having a really good day and only giving up one sack Did you notice he gets no push off the LOS? Did you notice we max protect and kept a TE in to help him almost the whole game? Samuels is not a pro bowl tackle right now but he is a notch above solid and worlds better than these projects WE DO NOT NEED TO CREATE NEW HOLES TO FILL OTHERS :doh: :puke: That is why this team is where it is now and why next season we will have a new gripe with new players:puke: Build Build Build (or just start the F over and cut everybody except sean and make 05 a wash) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ignatius J. Posted January 1, 2005 Share Posted January 1, 2005 has samuels had a two sack game his entire career? samuels was our best lineman this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Jones Posted January 1, 2005 Share Posted January 1, 2005 I like Samuels and hope he stays. We need to fix LG and center before we let Samuels go. That said, he needs to get off his high horse and accept a more cap friendly contract. Don't be bigger than the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronMike Posted January 1, 2005 Share Posted January 1, 2005 Method Man: what have you been smokin over the holidays?!?! I am sorry to say this, but your comments are just plain stupid. Molinaro is not ready for prime time, not now, and maybe not even next year. They have not even shown me anything blocking on the wedge for kick-offs (any relationship to our poor special teams play?):doh: You are correct in that Bugel has done a lousy job this season. We cannot blame all of our problems on Jansen's injury. Many teams have lost top notch talent on their OL, and they have recovered. But we did not. Why? Lack of talent, lack of coaching, lack of preparation? I see other teams starting rookies on the OL, and doing OK. Why can't we? Perhaps Wilson and Molinaro are stiffs. When a 42 year old man who was out of football for how long? can beat you out, perhaps you are a stiff. Samuels has played better than all of his critics on this board are willing to give him credit for. Dockery is knocked on his fat butt so often one would think he is wearing ice skates. Our OL cannot open a hole for a crucial gain in the red zone or third and short. Despite the OL incompetence, neither Wilson nor Molinaro can get on the field. Why? Because they are NO GOOD! But I see that you want Molinaro starting at LT. All I see is another Shar Pourdanesh. Poor Patrick. We better sign 4 QBs, because we will lose so many QBs to injury, that we will need all we can sign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
method man Posted January 1, 2005 Author Share Posted January 1, 2005 Look, I am supporting starting Molinaro IF and only IF samuels does not renegotiate. His 9 Mil cap hit next season towers over everyone else. (the skin wit te 2nd greatest cap hit next season is wynn at 4.5 mil). I think, when healthy, samuels is a pro bowl tackle. however he is always hurt and, in fact, many other left tackles in the NFC have passed him (ex. bryant mckinnie). If the coaches dont feel that Molinaro is ready, then we can go and sign somebody who can start for a year or two who will play better for the cost (ex. ryan diem) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimster Posted January 1, 2005 Share Posted January 1, 2005 Originally posted by IronMike Method Man: what have you been smokin over the holidays?!?! I am sorry to say this, but your comments are just plain stupid. Molinaro is not ready for prime time, not now, and maybe not even next year. They have not even shown me anything blocking on the wedge for kick-offs (any relationship to our poor special teams play?):doh: You are correct in that Bugel has done a lousy job this season. We cannot blame all of our problems on Jansen's injury. Many teams have lost top notch talent on their OL, and they have recovered. But we did not. Why? Lack of talent, lack of coaching, lack of preparation? I see other teams starting rookies on the OL, and doing OK. Why can't we? Perhaps Wilson and Molinaro are stiffs. When a 42 year old man who was out of football for how long? can beat you out, perhaps you are a stiff. Samuels has played better than all of his critics on this board are willing to give him credit for. Dockery is knocked on his fat butt so often one would think he is wearing ice skates. Our OL cannot open a hole for a crucial gain in the red zone or third and short. Despite the OL incompetence, neither Wilson nor Molinaro can get on the field. Why? Because they are NO GOOD! But I see that you want Molinaro starting at LT. All I see is another Shar Pourdanesh. Poor Patrick. We better sign 4 QBs, because we will lose so many QBs to injury, that we will need all we can sign. I don't think its fair to say Wilson and Molinaro are no good. - They're rookies. this coaching staff has a habit of bringing rookies along slowly, and Gibbs has never liked playing rookies full time. There are some exceptions, but they are usually the high draft picks, although Cooley was a pleasant surprise. In today's NFL you don't have a long time to develop players and have to start rookies sometimes, and I hope Gibbs is starting to realize that . I agree that I wouldn't want to gamble just yet on putting one of those new guys at LT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phat Hog Posted January 1, 2005 Share Posted January 1, 2005 I think the change is a good move to see what you have in your younger players. If this were the Pittsburgh ‘D’, then I would say it’s a crazy move. But Minnesota’s defense is light enough to give this a shot without getting Ramsey pounded into the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtyler42 Posted January 1, 2005 Share Posted January 1, 2005 Samuels is a solid if not above average LT, his $9 mil cap his is high for his level of production.... These things we all know... We need to attempt at renegotiating w/him to give the team a more cap friendly#, if he balks at this or we cant reach an agreement we can certainly get a low 1st rnd pick for him and we need to send him on his way.... I dont think Molinaro would be that big a problem if he has a whole offseason, and training camp to prepare as a starting LT, it would only be a problem if the team waivers back and forth and doesnt make a decision until late in training camp... All of this being said I DO NOT want to lose Samuels, he just needs to renegotiate and get surgery this offseason and come back to his Pro-Bowl form... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLusby Posted January 1, 2005 Share Posted January 1, 2005 Originally posted by Rejuvenated Canadian Hog I'm personally not comfortable with starting Molinaro at LT. ....... I'd be willing to bet that there is not one person on this board who would say to start Molinaro over him. Start Molinaro!!! Samuels is an overpaid lazy LT and we need to look at our options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
method man Posted January 2, 2005 Author Share Posted January 2, 2005 by not renegotiating last offseason, i am sure that samuels will not take a paycut. the only way his cap number will decrease is if he gets a new contract. i am pretty damn sure that he is going to ask for orlando pace/jonathan ogden type money. we are not going to give him a contract with this type of money. if he is unwilling to sign a reasonable contract then he must be traded. i noe there will still be a cap hit for his SB but that would dwarf the cap hit with him on the team next year. we should set a deadline of march 1 for him. if he does not sign a new contract by them we should hav molinaro prepare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsCrunkin Posted January 2, 2005 Share Posted January 2, 2005 If Samuels restructures his contract our o-line will be much better, the problem lies in two areas, and those areas are not Joe Bugel, the first problem was the loss of the leader Jon Jansen. This blow was much bigger than I think all of us wanted to believe at the beginning of the season and it showed, especially in the running game as it never really got off the ground. The second biggest problem lies with Cory Raymer, I used to love this guy when he was here his first time around but no he looks like nothing more than a body snapping a ball and then trying to slow down the other player, he opens no holes, gets no push off the line, and screws up pass protections or holds. We need a center a lot worse than most people think. The center calls out the protections a lot of the time and honestly I just don't think that Cory Raymer gets it.Joe Bugel has done what he can but honestly calling this line the dirtbags ended up having a pretty decent name because some of the games this year they have played just like that, a bunch of dirtbags. Hopefully we will keep Samuels, I still think he is one of the top tackles in the NFL, my proposition is we somehow trade for a proven decent center that wouldn't hit the cap to much. Joe Bugel is doing what he can with a beat up, incompetent offensive line, that will hopefully improve next year with the return of Jon Jansen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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