Grading the draft, and other useless threads.....

[KevinthePRF]

......I don't blame you, ESPN has got us all pretty conditioned to jump up from the armchair and give our expert analysis on looking at what our respective teams and others did on in the draft. But you can easily look at the history of the NFL draft and see what a feeble effort this is if your name is Joe Blow or Mel Kiper.

Grading the draft for your team and others can be done by your average 12 year old. Brownie points if you picked a "high profile player" in the first round, big brownie points if you picked one of these "high profile players" that slipped into the second or third. Brownie points if you "filled a hole" with a late round pick. No brownie points if you made a pick where "you have enough depth" and "could of used help elsewhere".

Simple math, everyone will follow. But in the end it's all extremely useless and feeble.

There will be Blair Thomas' in this draft, and there will be Terrell Davis'. Number one pick Carr has about a 50% chance he will be successful in the NFL. About a 5% chance he will win a SB with the Texans. But the Texans will get fantastic respect from now until he starts throwing all those INTs every NFL rookie QB has coming. If he weathers the growing pains is no one's guess.

Join the fray of guessing and analyizing picks if you wish. But history shows your crystal ball is working the same as anyone else's.

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Absolutely useless movie trivia: In "Coming to America" Cuba Gooding Jr makes one of his first big screen appearances in the first barber shop scene getting a hair cut.

[Zen-like Todd]

Damn you and your grounding logic! :hammer:

Of course, you're absolutely correct.

[indyskinsfan]

Yep AFTER the first round, it must have been all academic or average. One minute I think I am looking at one of the most exciting moments for the Skins, only to realize that two convicts taken by Dallas are considered to be upscale players, another taken by a team that had bad wheels, season in and season out and to be honest, I would have taken Randle El by now.

I don't know about football like I used to, just where the remote control buttons are. Hopefully that won't change in the next 2 years or so. Dam* I feel so stupid :hammer:

[Art]

Kevin,

This draft was a failure at the moment. We end up with four picks and get no immediate starters. That's a failed draft. We really aren't a team that is in position right now to be adding depth rather than working to get players at spots of more immediate weakness.

Now, in five years, we may reflect on this draft with a Pro Bowler in Ramsey, a blazing, dominating type of receiver in Russell, and our starting runner in Betts. But, that won't mean this draft is a success today. Today, we failed to help our team for tomorrow. In the future, perhaps we will have.

I actually liked the Russell pick. This guy is very, very fast. He's been under 4.4 and I've seen comments that he's very strong and he was a guy I would have wanted on this team in general. But, when we bypass Metcalf, Johnson or Brown at the same time, I have some questions about it.

The move for Bauman is an interesting move. He's a guy with a lot of cover skills, but, for us, he'll never be more than a No. 3. This probably means the end of Greer, and this type of move signals that we expect to have coverage people in place to compete against wide-open offenses. This move simply had to be a "best available player" on our board.

But, to me, a 5-8 corner may well be the best available player, but, he's not the player you want to go with when you have immediate and pressing needs elsewhere. Day 2 will yield more depth and that's great. But, we will now require a solid after-draft free agency season to address some of our gaps in the starting lineup. Hallen can do that at guard. Adams can do that at tackle. But, we clearly won't leave today feeling we're ready to enter the season with as much comfort as we'd like, and that, to me, means we didn't do as well today as we should have.

[Wacky Ralph]

Originally posted by Art

Kevin,

This draft was a failure at the moment. We end up with four picks and get no immediate starters. That's a failed draft. We really aren't a team that is in position right now to be adding depth rather than working to get players at spots of more immediate weakness.

Now, in five years, we may reflect on this draft with a Pro Bowler in Ramsey, a blazing, dominating type of receiver in Russell, and our starting runner in Betts. But, that won't mean this draft is a success today. Today, we failed to help our team for tomorrow. In the future, perhaps we will have.

I actually liked the Russell pick. This guy is very, very fast. He's been under 4.4 and I've seen comments that he's very strong and he was a guy I would have wanted on this team in general. But, when we bypass Metcalf, Johnson or Brown at the same time, I have some questions about it.

The move for Bauman is an interesting move. He's a guy with a lot of cover skills, but, for us, he'll never be more than a No. 3. This probably means the end of Greer, and this type of move signals that we expect to have coverage people in place to compete against wide-open offenses. This move simply had to be a "best available player" on our board.

But, to me, a 5-8 corner may well be the best available player, but, he's not the player you want to go with when you have immediate and pressing needs elsewhere. Day 2 will yield more depth and that's great. But, we will now require a solid after-draft free agency season to address some of our gaps in the starting lineup. Hallen can do that at guard. Adams can do that at tackle. But, we clearly won't leave today feeling we're ready to enter the season with as much comfort as we'd like, and that, to me, means we didn't do as well today as we should have.

Welllll..... look at it like this: Trotter was essentially our first round pick, and he was a grand-slam home-run. With Ramsey, we have a QB with a good upside. At RB, we now have decent depth. And who knows more about getting production out of a WR than Spurrier???? Am I rationalizing? Maybe. But this rationalization is stopping me from taking off all my clothes, climbing atop a bell-tower, and whippin' out a shotgun.

(By the way, my shotgun was loaded with blanks. I don't need the FBI to give me a visit.)

ARRRRRRGHHH!!! When Jerry "Moron" Jones has a better draft than you, something is wrong!!!!!!!!!

[Romo]

I know you are right. I havnt actually scouted any of the players so what do i really know? Art's point is well taken. This could turn out to be a good draft but right now its not gonna help us. Plus i think we reached in the for Betts and Baumann. I HATE reaches.

I know ive been a whiny bit%h today but you come in with such high hopes for the draft and....well...im let down. Last year I was nuts when we got Smoot. I love getting steals. We didnt get any so far.

On the plus side all the posts have bumped me up to starter. At least we got one starter today ME!!

Ive got a deal. If any of these guys (except Ramsey) turns out to be a real good find next year then the Admins can decide on any embarrasing Icon they wish to give me. I will happily accept the punishment because at least we will have a good player.

[bulldog]

the Redskins made a number of moves today to leverage picks and used those picks on players that as Art said are all far from polished products.

For those of us spoiled on the Jansen and Smoot picks in years past, the choice of Betts and Ramsey, guys whose record shows they are 'maybes' in the NFL fell somewhat flat.

I keep coming back to the thought:

ALL THOSE MOVES FOR THESE 4 GUYS?

What is so special about any of them that made them compelling as picks?

[Nerm]

I agree Kevin. Last year a lot of us Dallas fans were really upset after Q Carter was announced. Now, I dont know of many Dallas fans that would trade QC for ANY player drafted after him. He isnt proven, but he looked great the last few games of the season and won the NFL player of the week award against the 9ers.

One 50 yard run by Betts may change a few minds here.

[JonBlaze]

It's not the actual players I have a problem with. It's the fact that the Skins identified problem areas: OG, DT and then did nothing about it when there were some very good prospects sitting on the board, mainly at the OG spot. The only pick that bothers me is Bauman. He's a good player, a small one though, but c'mon, Champ, Smoot and DG can hold down the fort this year. A new nickel back to groom could have been the pick on day 2.

[Hangman55]

Originally posted by Wacky Ralph

Am I rationalizing? Maybe. But this rationalization is stopping me from taking off all my clothes, climbing atop a bell-tower, and whippin' out a shotgun.

If you have no clothes on where are you whipping out your shotgun from?

[Wacky Ralph]

Originally posted by Hangman55

Originally posted by Wacky Ralph

Am I rationalizing? Maybe. But this rationalization is stopping me from taking off all my clothes, climbing atop a bell-tower, and whippin' out a shotgun.

If you have no clothes on where are you whipping out your shotgun from?

Let's just say that I'm typing this gibberish into the computer while standing up.

[Art]

Rationalizations are great. Trotter is, essentially, another first round pick. Ramsey does make a ton of sense for this team given the talent we appear to have at the QB spot. If anyone can get Russell coached up, it'll be Spurrier. Betts had those 71 catches so, perhaps he's really here more for versatility on third down than much else right away.

In all, I don't look at any of these picks and think, "Boy, those weren't good." Betts was an immensely productive player in the Big 10. He's a good pick. Baumann is three inches short of being a Top 10 pick, but, as PFW writes, he doesn't and won't ever have those three inches, so, it'll always be something he lacks.

Russell is among the fastest players in the draft. A burner who is going to need some coaching, but, again, none of these players are reaches, and all of these players would have fit beautifully for us, if we entered the draft saying, "We needed a QB, WR, RB, CB".

In hindsight, most of us forget we did need a running back. We look at Davis and say, "We're done." But we have nothing else, so, to me, running back is a good move. But, dammit, I'd like to think we're targeting a guy in the second round to come in here and play for us. Perhaps there was too large a run on the players we wanted, Fonoti, Gurode, Thompson, etc., that we changed directions in the second. Instead of reaching, we stepped back and changed to best available player the rest of the day.

That appears to be what we did in this draft, but, while I don't have a problem with any of the players as prospects or potential producers in our offense, I just think we went a different direction that we should have and it is deflating.

[PennState11]

You also have to look at some teams who draft badly according to Mel Kiper, like New England, but whos rookies have an immediate impact. For example look at Richard Seymour who they said was a stretch at their pick and the worst DT taken in the first round but he had the most productivity. Other guys like Gerrard Warren and Marcus Stroud didnt do much at all. And thens theres Tom Brady, enough said. So maybe Ramsey will be the best of the 3 QBs taken and Betts has about 25 catches out of the backfield, that wouldnt be to bad. Bauman may really help against teams like the Rams and Russell could settle into a 2 or 3 spot behind Gardner and Green. Maybe thats just optomistic thinking but...............

[fansince62]

fellas......FA signings are "in addition to the draft" - i.e., part of a comprehensive strategy, not tradeoffs (money aside).....not substitutes. the key is finding quality and mutual reinforcement in both. trotter was not a substitute for a first round selection. he was an addition to the team that filled a need and compensated for other FA losses on defense. the draft should have built upon this. instead, we, in my humble opinion, threw in the towel after we couldn't get the big name guys we wanted in the first round and went for role players and depth. that's ok....if these guys stick and contribute. but, as i discuss elsewhere, the competition (we all know who) got better through the draft while we scored squat (for the next season anyway).

[Art]

I don't disagree with you 62. We're not, I don't think, saying Trotter is a substitute for a first rounder, but, he is like having two delivered this weekend. Ramsey can't possibly do much to help this team right now as a rookie. I like his chances in Spurrier's offense a great deal more than I like Carter, so, in the building process of the teams, we may have, with Ramsey, gotten a QB who'll ultimately balance the draft in our favor, though there is NO doubt the Cowboys leave Day 1 with a superior draft. They did very, very well.

[fansince62]

art.....let me cast it along different lines....in the draft there is a premium set on intelligent guesswork - it's a crap shoot that the teams with superior insight can use to differentiate and separate themselves from the competition. free agency, on the other hand, deals more with known commodities. provided the money is there, teams are on a more level playing field in FA - the probability for any given team to improve itself is higher. we didn't use the draft to gain ground or pass the competition - teams like dallas did. that is my beef and the reason i don't view the trotter signing as compensating for the draft. dallas improved markedly in BOTH the draft and free agency. i hope i'm wrong. note that we haven't heard any ringing "we're ecstatic about our draft" pronouncements from the front office. there's going to a lot of beer sold at skins games this upcoming season!

on a more positive note, everything i have read suggests that the 2003 draft will be rife with talent. given that we clear a lot of dead cap and that we have our Qb of the future (let us cross our finger and hope), i think we are going to be in position to do some skillful, targeted maneuvering next draft.

[Art]

I don't disagree that Dallas did a good job of landing very good players to add to the roster and make that team better. But, if they have Carter and we now have Ramsey, we may have, over time, an advantage at a position it's important to have an advantage in and we already were ahead of them in many areas. But, your points are on target here.

The question I have is going with Wuerffel or a rookie in Ramsey, it's hard to envision a great offense. I'd be very upset with this draft if we struggled as a team due to having poor QB play and we wind up with another QB early in the first round next year .

I think we have talent on the roster to keep us in and winning games while Ramsey develops or Wuerffel shocks the world, but, though the 2003 draft is a bit in the distance, I think it would further crush this draft if we are in position to take the a Top QB next year .

[NavyDave]

After recovering from my hangover and the phone calls from my brother (pitt) and neighbor (cowpoke) which were in essence their way of going Ha!!!

I'm less p1ssed than I was last night but still not happy.

I was really hoping to add linemen yesterday but now it looks like another year of being blind when it comes to addressing the interior.

[Dr. D]

I think my main objection here is the fact we are in need of 2 starters (one OL and one DL) and this is way late in the draft to find them.

I mean in the second and third there were plenty of possibilities.

but we decide to draft "best available"? for backups?

but we still have the holes to fill with 5th and 7th rounders.

This can't be smart strategy.

[PennState11]

I disagree that ramsey wont be an immediate help because i belive he will be our starter next year.

[pga]

I not sure I understand this "best available player" pick when you have addressed needs that should be taken care of.

If you need new tires on your car do you go get the oil changed? If your looking for your favorite beer do you go to the hot dog stand?

There were players available at OG and DT that should have been taken to help our problem positions. OG's Kendall Simmons/Toniu Fonoti (who we should have taken IMHO) and DT's LArry Tripplett/Eddie Freeman/Anthony Weaver (who went to the damn Ravens).

That said.... I'm sure Stevis knows alot more than me about all these players than I do. It just doesn't make alot of sense to me. I'll be the guy asking the hotdog guy for a beer.. :doh:

To add insult to injury Jerry Jones looks ALOT better :halo: than we do today :dunce:

Time to fight the hangover with a little hair of the dog that bit me....

[Art]

PS11,

Ramsey may be our starter this year, but, it is rare that a rooke QB is a great help to a team. Ramsey can probably be our starter and the odds are that we'll be a far worse team that we would be even with Matthews or even Wuerffel starting. However, if you are convinced Ramsey will be your guy, then it makes a great deal of sense to see where you are as a team after four or five weeks, and then throw him to the dogs if you don't like where you are.

But, the best thing I can say about Ramsey is that while he may not help us this year, we may help him. We'll see. If we help him this year, it'll be all that much quicker for him to be ready to play for us. He does fit so nicely in Spurrier's offense so it'll be interesting. Hell, I'd argue Ramsey is the best QB Spurrier has ever had in terms of arm strength and ability to make throws. This can't be a terrible thing .

[Wacky Ralph]

What's so frustrating and what's making me angry and gassy is that it seems like we were drafting for depth. I don't like that. No sirree Bob. DON'T try to draft for depth on the first day of the draft.

We have some great players, but we also have a lot of holes. I'd be a whole lot more impressed if Snyder managed to trade himself into a situation where he could draft IMPACT players, rather than for depth.:hammer: :puke: :mad: