OrangeSkin Posted April 19, 2002 Share Posted April 19, 2002 Did anybody else see this on SportsCenter? He was ranked ahead of some serious busts, but seeing as though he's in cattle ranching now, I'd have to go with him as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeletor The Invincible Posted April 19, 2002 Share Posted April 19, 2002 Can't complain with that, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brave Posted April 19, 2002 Share Posted April 19, 2002 Hard to argue the point, though he did at least beat the Cowboys for us. How many games has Ryan Leaf won in this league, anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inmate running the asylum Posted April 19, 2002 Share Posted April 19, 2002 Actually I dont think Health Schuler was out biggest bust. Schuler played with us a couple years and did win a few games for us at least. I remember he played very well in a game against the Rams that we won. The biggest bust to me was Desmond Howard who we traded up to draft. We traded a lower 1st round pick to get Cincy's 1st round pick at the #4 spot and wound up blowing TWO #1 picks. Howard never became a receiver, and although he later became a good kick returner, it was not with us. The one TD on a return he scored for us, was on a trick play. So he was drafted 4th in the 1st round and cost us two #1 picks. Schuler only cost us one #1 pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickalino Posted April 19, 2002 Share Posted April 19, 2002 ANDRE JOHNSON Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wacky Ralph Posted April 19, 2002 Share Posted April 19, 2002 I think the biggest bust ever was Ki-jana Carter. He was the number one pick in the entire draft---------and Cincinutty got ZERO production from him. Ryan Leaf, Tony Mandarich, Heath Shuler, and Anre Wadsworth at least took to the field for the teams that drafted them. But Cincy traded UP with Carolina to nab Carter in 1995.....passing on guys like Tony Bosseli, Steve McNair, and Warren Sapp!!!! OUCH!!! And they got NOTHING in return!!! Not even a taco! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inmate running the asylum Posted April 19, 2002 Share Posted April 19, 2002 Dont agree with you Wacky. Ki-Jana Carter was a bust with Cincy, but he did hang around a number of years, and if you check he even scored some TD's for them. Actually, I didnt know we were talking about NFL busts here, I thought it was only Redskin busts. But even if Ki-Jana Carter was the number one pick in the draft, Desmond Howard was the number 4 pick, PLUS he cost us a second 1st round pick lower down. Howard did very little for us, not even as a kick returner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wacky Ralph Posted April 19, 2002 Share Posted April 19, 2002 Originally posted by inmate running the asylum Dont agree with you Wacky. Ki-Jana Carter was a bust with Cincy, but he did hang around a number of years, and if you check he even scored some TD's for them. Actually, I didnt know we were talking about NFL busts here, I thought it was only Redskin busts. But even if Ki-Jana Carter was the number one pick in the draft, Desmond Howard was the number 4 pick, PLUS he cost us a second 1st round pick lower down. Howard did very little for us, not even as a kick returner. I guess it goes to how you define a bust. YOU define it in terms of a player's overall success in the NFL. *I* define it as the overall impact the player has on the team that drafted him. But going by your definition, it's still hard to say that Desmond Howard was an overall bust. He was a difference-maker on a Superbowl-winning team, which is pretty special. Ki-Jana Carter's carrer highlights all took place at Penn State. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickalino Posted April 19, 2002 Share Posted April 19, 2002 Heath Shuler may have been a bust, but he couldnt have been the biggest, at least due to the fact that we got some type of compensation for him. We found someone dumb enough to give us a draft pick for him, albeit a 5th rounder. And it's true that no-one has defined biggest bust. Do you judge it by actual production or lack there-of (i.e. Andre Johnson)? Or do you judge him by actual production versus how much the player was hyped (Heath Shuler), or by how much extra we paid for him (Desmond Howard) ? These are just a few of the several ways to define a bust. It all depends on the purpose of the study Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CounterTre Posted April 19, 2002 Share Posted April 19, 2002 I voted for Mandarich in that poll. He was supposed to be the second coming of Hercules and didn't even make it into the regular season before he was exposed. Shuler had a few good games at least and had a career elsewhere only to be ended by injury. Mandarich was just dumped wasn't he? As for Howard. He may not have been an all pro receiver, but I don't see how you can call a guy who get's SB MVP a bust unless you are talking strictly in terms of the Redskins(the poll was NFL busts). That narrow minded aggressiveness seemd to be very out of character on Gibb's part. I would definitely say that was his biggest mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inmate running the asylum Posted April 19, 2002 Share Posted April 19, 2002 Well Wacky I will agree with you if we are talking about Desmond playing with other teams, where he did have success. The way Orangeskin posted this -- on a Redskin board -- I thought we were only talking about Redskin busts. Another thing -- I dont consider a player who tears up his knee and has a career ending injury -- a bust. Thats just bad luck, and you cant really blame the player for that. Ki-jana Carter probably would have been an outstanding running back -- from what he displayed here last year -- if for not all those injuries and surgeries that took away is speed. My definition of a bust is a player who was highly rated by GM's, and then totally underachieved. Someone say like Ryan Leaf. To give you another example, take Joey Harrington. A few weeks ago a hit-and-run driver ran into his vehicle on the freeway, completely knocking his car off the freeway. If he had been seriously injured and lets say he had been under contract with Houston at the time -- but didnt play well later on say because of surgery on his throwing arm -- you couldnt call the guy a bust. That would have just been a case of bad luck. As it turned out he was very lucky and was not injured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GZSkins Posted April 19, 2002 Share Posted April 19, 2002 I've got to agree with Mick. Andre Johnson never did anything for anyone in the NFL and has to be considered Casserly's biggest mistake. The others mentioned, all at least played and contributed somewhat, to the Skins or on other teams. Johnson never did anything to deserve being a #1 pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardi gras skin Posted April 19, 2002 Share Posted April 19, 2002 I can't see putting quarterback in the same category as other positional players. When you draft a quarterback, you know you have a greater chance that they will be a bust. When Leaf and Manning are a coin toss coming out of college, you realize what a crap shoot quarterbacks are. Guys like Mandarich and Wadsworth are ultimate busts to me. Both of these guys were GUARANTEED 10 year pro bowlers. Ouch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Om Posted April 19, 2002 Share Posted April 19, 2002 Redskins busts? Trying to decide between Shuler and Howard is seriously splitting hairs (Andre Johnson to me is an afterthought compared to those two). If you have to choose one, though, I'm going with Shuler. Howard came on board when we were kings of the hill, and he was expected more to help us stay there than have to help get us there. We gave up a lot for him, true enough, but in the great scheme of things, with guys like Ricky Sanders and Gary Clark still around, I don't think he cost us THAT much more than some picks and a lot of pride. WR is WR. They neither make nor break an NFL team. Having him flop isn't the reason we floundered during the early Turner years. Shuler, on the other hand, was supposed to resurrect the program after it bottomed out under Petitbone. Too much expectation, too little apparent NFL talent, too little time to nurture what talent there might have been to create at least a serviceable player. QB is QB. Today's NFL doesn't require you to necessarily have a John Elway or Joe Montana to insure long-term success, but not having even an above-average one dooms you to mediocrity. Heath was set up for mediocrity and disaster from the moment we drafted him, what with the expectations surrounding him, the rush to play him, and the total lack of talent around him. Unfortunately for him and for us, he was only too happy to oblige. And of top of it all, the kid was fragile and couldn't stay on the field. By my criteria, he's the Redskins biggest bust of the modern era. * And no discussion of NFL busts would be complete without naming Brian Bozworth and Todd Marinovich. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuji869 Posted April 19, 2002 Share Posted April 19, 2002 I just saw that on ESPN. Shuler was definately a bust and did not live up to what was expected but I don't think the guy was the biggest bust. There were other guys like Brian Bosworth, Andre Bosworth and Todd Molinivitch (I think that is how you spell it) that were just as diserving. :doh: I think what kept Desmond Howard from making the list was he is still in the NFL and was a Super Bowl MVP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inmate running the asylum Posted April 19, 2002 Share Posted April 19, 2002 Just confining this debate to Redskin busts, Im still steaming over the Desmond Howard trade up. Although to be honest -- at the time -- I thought it was an Ok move and was excited about it. What pissed me off though, was the loss of TWO #1 picks. If you go back to that draft -- I forget the year -- if we had just sat there and taken the players that fell to us, we would and could have drafted CB Troy Vincent and FS Darryl Williams. Both turned out to be all-pros! Instead we blew both #1 picks, and it wasnt even necessary at the time, as we were coming off the Super Bowl win over Buffalo. After this screw up.... we started down the tubes. Andre Johnson also is at the top of my list. Christ the guy not only couldnt play left tackle, he couldnt even make an NFL roster. I mean we "carried him" the first year, as he really couldnt play! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Tater Posted April 19, 2002 Share Posted April 19, 2002 Biggest Draft bust? How about that guy we drafted twice even though he said he did not want to play pro-ball, what was that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog Posted April 19, 2002 Share Posted April 19, 2002 Shuler was not the biggest bust ever. At least not league-wide, perhaps on the Redskins since 1970, though. Mandarich was taken at #2 and was lauded as being a potential HOF player before he ever set foot on the field. The expectations for Shuler were never that high. What about Aundray Bruce taken #1 overall by Atlanta? He was supposed to be the next Lawrence Taylor with his physical measureables. Instead he was a bust that floated around for years as a backup, finally being moved to DE by the Raiders. Bruce Pickens? Cornerback drafted by Atlanta in the top 5. This guy flat out couldn't play from the first minicamp. Rick Mirer? #2 pick overall. This guy is having a hard time finding work as a #3 quarterback in the NFL these days. he might not count as an outright bust, but what about the disappointing career of Brian Bosworth? This guy was supposed to be the next Dick Butkus. Instead he was dogmeat in the NFL, being run over by backs 20 pounds lighter than he was :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyDave Posted April 19, 2002 Share Posted April 19, 2002 That was Carr and his wife that were in the car accident. We could have had Vincent and WR Rob Moore instead of Desmond Howard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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