Russia tied to Iraq's missing arms

[Kilmer17]

Originally posted by Destino

There won't be a civil war because the differences between Bush and Kerry really aren't all that huge. I certainly wouldn't support violence over different tax plans. It would take something dramatic, like a power grab and the elimination of democracy, to spark a civil war.

Also in case you haven't read yoru history, when the left fights the right because conditions have gotten that bad.....it's never a pretty fight.

I fear we will see something that is PERCEIVED as a dramatic power grab this year.

I think gbear pointed out in a diff thread that up to a dozen races are going to be decided within the margin of error for determining the victor. The loser in those states will have a legitimate complaint that they should have won. If it's a close enough margin, I can see a small skirmish between the passionate on each side (think the scene in Miami in 2000) quickly escalating to a larger riot that spreads as the rumors and hatred grow.

I am praying that whovere wins, wins by a landslide.

[Cskin]

My issue is why didn't we even look to see if they were there until a month latter? Why did we not watch the area for days after defeating the enemy in the region? Who has them now is important, but not from the standpoint of assessing the planning. Assessing the planning means assessing why we don't know where they are.

Are you forgetting that the roads intersecting the complex, running N/S and E/W, were crawling with American Forces and a near parking lot of American Fighting vehicles and resupply personnel. Are we to believe that the Iraqi insurgents, or better yet terrorists, were able to spirit away 380 tons of explosives in what amounts to 40 10-ton trucks right from under our noses? And... might I ask... what roads did these 40 TRUCKS use to leave the complex?

You see... the left will go to any length to deflect attention from the truth. Next I fully expect to see the "look...over there" scheme. :doh:

[gbear]

Good question. So are you saying we know what the traffic patterns were between April 3rd and April6? That's what I want to know in saying did we do what we should have. Did we restrict truck traffic? If we did, great! As it is, we say we don't think anything could have moved after April 6th according to the article. Why the difference? why did the official not say we're sure we would have spotted them April3rd-5th?

[SnyderShrugged]

Originally posted by gbear

Good question. So are you saying we know what the traffic patterns were between April 3rd and April6? That's what I want to know in saying did we do what we should have. Did we restrict truck traffic? If we did, great! As it is, we say we don't think anything could have moved after April 6th according to the article. Why the difference? why did the official not say we're sure we would have spotted them April3rd-5th?

Why is the fact that the 101st is stating that the explosives WERE NOT THERE WHEN THEY ARRIVED? 377 Tons of anything isnt easy to miss, and to assume that our troops did is insulting to them.

[gstahl]

Originally posted by skin-n-vegas

There won't be a true civil war because one side lacks the backbone needed to stand behind their convictions.

I will stand my service record up against yours anytime. 8 years in the Navy, 18 months at sea in the Persian Gulf and off the coast of Korea, Air Medal for combat operations over Iraq.

lack backbone?

[gbear]

where was the 101st on April 3rd? I ask only because according to the article, it's not mentioned.

[Cskin]

Don't forget theatre satelite imagery and surveillance aircraft, including UAVs, flying all over the place and NONE of them notice 40 trucks parked up against a wall of the complex and loading weaponry.

Please... this was The Left's October suprise, predicated on the Left's assumption that millions and millions of people's brains have abruptly quit functioning. What's unfortunate is.... there are actually living human beings with voter registration cards that will believe the fable. :doh:

[THE HAMMER'IN HOG]

Originally posted by SkinInsite

So helping an enemy of the United States is ok as long as you back the incumbent in an election year?

No way, but do you really think we will declare war on russia, how bout France, or Germany? Aint happening, if you were a betting man who would you say we would go after next, I personally would bet that none of above mentioned would be in the top 3, doesn't make what they did right, I just think that's how it will play out, Syria or Iran, possibly N. Korea but I doubt that, I think our main focus right now is in the middle east.

[Ænima]

Here's an update on this huge story.

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20041028-115519-3700r.htm

Photos point to removal of weapons

By Bill Gertz

THE WASHINGTON TIMES

U.S. intelligence agencies have obtained satellite photographs of truck convoys that were at several weapons sites in Iraq in the weeks before U.S. military operations were launched, defense officials said yesterday.

The photographs indicate that Iraq was moving arms and equipment from its known weapons sites, said officials who spoke on the condition of anonymity.

According to one official, the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency, known as NGA, "documented the movement of long convoys of trucks from various areas around Baghdad to the Syrian border."

The official said the convoys are believed to include shipments of sensitive armaments, including equipment used in making plastic explosives and nuclear weapons.

About 380 tons of RDX and HMX, used in making such arms, were reported missing from the Al-Qaqaa weapons facility, though the Pentagon and an embedded NBC News correspondent said the facility appeared to have been emptied by the time U.S. forces got there.

The photographs bolster the claims of Pentagon official John A. Shaw, who told The Washington Times on Wednesday that recent intelligence reports indicate Russian special forces units took part in a sophisticated dispersal operation from January 2003 to March 2003 to move key weapons out of Iraq.

In Moscow, the Russian government denied that its forces were involved in removing weapons from Iraq, dismissing the claims as "far-fetched and ridiculous."

"I can state officially that the Russian Defense Ministry and its structural divisions could not have been involved in the disappearance of the explosives, because Russian servicemen were not in Iraq long before the beginning of the American-British operation in that country," Defense Ministry spokesman Col. Vyacheslav Sedov told Interfax news agency.

Bush administration officials reacted cautiously to information provided by Mr. Shaw, who said details of the Russian "spetsnaz" forces' involvement in a program of document-shredding and weapons dispersal came from two European intelligence services.

White House spokesman Scott McClellan told reporters aboard Air Force One that he was unaware of the information in The Times report.

"I know that there is some new information that has come to light in the last couple of days," Mr. McClellan said, noting that another news report said the amount of high-explosive materials may have been less than 377 tons, as the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) claims.

Asked about foreign intelligence reports of Russian troops moving Iraq's weapons to Syria, Mr. McClellan said, "I have no information that points in that direction."

National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice said in a interview on the Laura Ingraham radio show that she also was not aware of the information about Russian troops relocating Saddam's weapons to Syria, Lebanon and possibly Iran.

Defense officials said the information has been closely held within the Pentagon because Mr. Shaw, a deputy undersecretary of defense of international technology security, has been working with the Pentagon inspector general in investigating the Russian role in the weapons transfers.

Information in the inspector general office is not widely shared within the policy and intelligence communities.

The Pentagon is still investigating the fate of the explosives and possible Russian involvement.

Officials said numerous intelligence reports in the past two years indicate Saddam used trucks and aircraft to withdraw weapons from Iraq before March 2003. However, the new information indicates that Russian troops were directly involved in assisting the Iraqi military and intelligence services to secure and move the arms.

Documents reviewed by one defense official include specific Russian military unit itineraries for the truck convoys.

The arms that were taken out of the country included missile parts, nuclear-related equipment, tank and aircraft parts, and chemicals used in making poison gas weapons, the official said.

Regarding the satellite photographs, defense officials said the photographs bolster the information obtained from the European intelligence services on the Russian arms-removal program.

The Russian special forces troops were housed at a computer center near the Russian Embassy in Baghdad and left the country shortly before the U.S. invasion was launched March 20, 2003.

Harold Hough, a satellite photographic specialist, said commercial satellite images taken shortly before U.S. forces reached Baghdad revealed Russian transport aircraft at Baghdad's international airport near a warehouse.

"My thought was that the Russians were eager to get something out of Iraq quickly," Mr. Hough said. "But it is quite possible that the aircraft was used to transport the Russian forces."

Also yesterday, the IAEA said it warned the United States about the vulnerability of explosives stored at Al-Qaqaa after Iraq's Tuwaitha nuclear complex was looted.

"After we heard reports of looting at the Tuwaitha site in April 2003, the agency's chief Iraq inspectors alerted American officials that we were concerned about the security of the high explosives stored at Al-Qaqaa," IAEA spokeswoman Melissa Fleming told the Associated Press.

She did not say which officials were notified or exactly when.

[Ænima]

Sorry the text came out kind of strange, I just copied and pasted. Anyways, here is the picture that goes along with it.

[Thiebear]

Seeing how things are coming down: I dont think it will be close enough to even warrant a civil war type attitude.. 300+ to Bush.

[THE HAMMER'IN HOG]

Originally posted by Thiebear

Seeing how things are coming down: I dont think it will be close enough to even warrant a civil war type attitude.. 300+ to Bush.

As if the left would ever have the B*ll's for something like that!

[gstahl]

Originally posted by Ænima

Sorry the text came out kind of strange, I just copied and pasted. Anyways, here is the picture that goes along with it.

See <http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/iraq/al_qa_qaa.htm> for good factual information on the facility including imagery that disputes that the Washington Times photo has anything to do with the actual HMX at the facility (the truck shown is not at a bunker which the IAEA identified to contain HMX, though the truck is at a bunker at the facility). There is a link to the information about a video of numerous explosives at what could the facility. Jury is out whether the video is actually from the site (it likely is the facility based on the reporters GPS location with the 101st airborne at the time of the video but no word on whether they are looking at the HMX or not) and whether it actually shows the HMX (I believe Fox News is reporting that Hans Blix believes the video does show the site).

[Ænima]

Originally posted by gstahl

See <http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/iraq/al_qa_qaa.htm> for good factual information on the facility including imagery that disputes that the Washington Times photo has anything to do with the actual HMX at the facility (the truck shown is not at a bunker which the IAEA identified to contain HMX, though the truck is at a bunker at the facility). There is a link to the information about a video of numerous explosives at what could the facility. Jury is out whether the video is actually from the site (it likely is the facility based on the reporters GPS location with the 101st airborne at the time of the video but no word on whether they are looking at the HMX or not) and whether it actually shows the HMX (I believe Fox News is reporting that Hans Blix believes the video does show the site).

I was just posting the story, not necessarily saying it was true. Im not jumping to any conclusions until this whole thing is sorted out.

[gstahl]

Originally posted by Ænima

I was just posting the story, not necessarily saying it was true. Im not jumping to any conclusions until this whole thing is sorted out.

Understood, just adding to your information with more on the subject (not saying you were wrong in any way). Seems information on this is all over the board, some saying they were there, some they weren't, some they were moved, some they were stolen. We may never really know.

[Joe Sick]

So how's this story working out?

Any followups by the Moonie Times?

[Predicto]

Nah. That story didn't stick, so they've moved on.