OT- Will we see alternative forms of energy?

[@DCGoldPants]

With all this mid-east stuff going on. I'm wondering if threats like Iraq's to cut oil production could be avoided.<br /><br />I guess my real question is "Is it likely that events like these in the middle east where every other arab country hates and wants to destroy Israel will lead to rest of the world to really start using other power sources? Will we see any of these changes in our lifetimes?"<br /><br />I'm down with solar power or whatever they come up with. Soilent Green.....mmmmmmm....its people.

[Yomar]

If anyone is interested in alternative energy, check out <a href="http://www.eia.doe.gov/" target="_blank">http://www.eia.doe.gov/</a><br /><br />As far as changes in your lifetime, I don't know how old you are, but there are about 60 some odd years of oil resources left, in 20 you will start to see massive changes in the field, if not sooner. Right now natural gas is just as viable as oil as an energy source for your car. The problem is in the high cost associated with building a large enough network of natural gas stations to make it a viable option for you and I.<br /> <br /> <small>[ April 08, 2002, 03:03 PM: Message edited by: Yomar ]</small>

[All In]

Wow now this is really OT...<br /><br />Never would of even crossed my mind.<br /><br />I would say it would take almost a longtime to see a change in power source, as a replacement. I mean it would probably take something to happen in order to get that kind of reaction. Do you think that one day we would be talking/laughing at the fact that we used gasoline to power cars and fossil fuels???

[@DCGoldPants]

#1 I'm 26 so I hope I've got a few years left.<br /><br />#2 I thinking that we NEED a plan incase the middle east blows itself up.<br /><br />#3 I hate paying for Gas (I'm sure we all agree on that)

[Romo]

I dont expect to see anything new happen for quite some time just because the Oil industry is simply too powerful and in bed with all the politicians.

[Zen-like Todd]

Don't worry guys, it's all under control. Some company is coming out with a remote control that doesnt need batteries. It uses the energy you expend pushing the button to generate enough electricity to send the signal.<br /><br />Now, think of how much you flip through channels.<br /><br />I'm telling you guys, this will solve the energy crisis! <img border="0" title="" alt="[smile]" src="smile.gif" /> <br /><br />Honestly though, it aint no thing. Within 10-12 years we'll see mainstream fuel-cell vehicles enter the marketplace. While this is simply storage and not power generation, it allows us to convert to other forms of power production on the back end, if need be, such as the dreaded nuclear.

[Zen-like Todd]

Dubya totally (and not cause of this "crisis", these piddling countries need to sell us oil, or they'll all go under) needs to get up and do a JFK -like thing, proclaim an "energy race" like the "space race", not cause its easy but because our kids have asthma, stuff like that <img border="0" title="" alt="[big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" />

[Yomar]

True, the size and power of the Exxons of the world is an obstacle. But Exxon won't go away just because we switch to alt. energy, they will simply adapt. All of the leading innovations, be it fuel cells or natural gas, are being supported in some form by the establishment (car makers, oil companies etc.). Ideally they would be in favor of the status quo, and its true that change will meet some resistence. But nothing is more important to these global giants than political stability, so while they may be resistent to change, I think you will see some serious changes begin to be introduced over the next 10-20 years.

[jonjeff]

You guys ever hear of fuel cells? They are the energy of the future. In time you will see quite a few automobiles powered by fuel cells. Alot of your mass transit buses already are powered by fuel cells. They emit no pollutants whatsoever. Also there are stationary fuel cells that can be set up to power small communities in very remote areas. Look for companies like Ballard Tech., Plug Power and many more to be in the news much more in the coming years. Buy some of their stock now while it is low. It might be a very good investment!

[Yomar]

I didn't want to mention Ballard or anyone else by name since I am not into discussing stocks on the internet. Ballard is a leading fuel cell development company based in Canada whose funding comes primarily from several US car makers. They probably are a good investment idea if you are looking long term, but keep in mind that it will probably be at least 5 and more likely 10 years before the industry really takes off and a lot can happen in that time, so none of these alt energy companies are a sure bet.<br /><br />If you want to look into investing in the field, its important to do the research yourself.<br /> <br /> <small>[ April 08, 2002, 03:42 PM: Message edited by: Yomar ]</small>

[bulldog]

the truth is the US has to form a strategic plan to remain involved and engaged in Middle East diplomacy at the same time it is committed to weaning itself off the region's energy resourcs. <br /><br />Dependence on Middle East oil has already diminished as other producers such as Venezuela, Mexico, Indonesia and Russia have become major suppliers to the US.<br /><br />But that transferrence still leaves us vulnerable to international forces we don't in the main control.<br /><br />David Hackworth was entirely correct when he said that the 1990's will be remembered as the decade that America slept and failed to address the issues that brought us to warfare in the Gulf at the beginning of the decade.<br /><br />That should have been our wakeup call that finding and FUNDING alternative energy initiatives was as imperative as the Marshall Plan was for Europe in the late 1940's.<br /><br />The Middle East is a contentious region, with unstable governments that are increasingly becoming polarized and isolated from their own populations because of their own decadence and abuse of power. <br /><br />After travelling in the region, I am convinced that the gap between rich and poor and the hopelessness of the everyday situations millions of people find themselves in, is one of the greatest causes of the rise of militant, fundamental religious movements that are now wreaking such havoc.<br /><br />When the US turns to Egypt and the Saudi Governments to crack down on and control these groups, these governments by and large take a pass because they realize their own grip on power could be compromised by energizing these groups to oppose THEM.

[Darth Tater]

TCO,<br /><br />Great idea about the remote but the battery industry cabal will be paying you a visit tonight! <img border="0" alt="[box]" title="" src="graemlins/boxing.gif" />

[Larry]

When you folks say "fuel cells", I think of the devices which combine Hydrogen and Oxygen to produce electricity. Is that what you're talking about?

[Art]

Internal debate with myself on this one, but, if this thread disappears, it will do so to Tailgate. Just a heads up in case I come to my senses <img border="0" title="" alt="[smile]" src="smile.gif" /> .

[Yomar]

Yup, thats it. Its not a new technology, they have been around since the 1800s.<br /><br /><a href="http://americanhistory.si.edu/csr/fuelcells/" target="_blank">http://americanhistory.si.edu/csr/fuelcells/</a>

[Larry]

Admitting that all I know about fuel cells was a conversation in an engineering class many years ago, I see some problems with hailing them as the salvation of our energy needs just now: <br /><br />I see problems convincing the public to cary around a tank of liquid hydrogen in their cars. (Granted, gasoline ain't the safest stuff, either. But it's a risk people are used to). <br /><br />As a means of converting chemical energy into electricity, fuel cells are (or, at least were) less effecient than burning the hydrogen in an IC engine, and using the engine to run a generator. (Fuel cells are used in spacecraft for several reasons: The cell weighs less than a motor and generator. The fuel cell scales better (a motor and generator at 5% of capacity may use half as much fuel as it does at full load). In the shuttle, the "waste" from the fuel cells is drinking water, and it burns the same fuel as the rockets, so there's no additional weight for a fuel tank). <br /><br />And, I think, the current method of producing hydrogen is to use electricity to extract it from water, which takes more energy than you get when you burn it.

[Pete]

I also don't know a great deal about the fuel cells the auto makers are working on, but I do know that LP gas is not the answer. The persentage of vehicles on the road today that use LP as their primary fule sorce is very low, thank God. LP makes gasoline look like milk.<br /><br />Have any here (besides SAG) ever hear the term B.L.E.V.E.? A Boiling Liquid Evaprotive Vapor Explosion, or as one of my instructors called it, a Blast Leveling Everything Very Efficiently. The basic Idea with an LP incident is, if flames have inpinged on a tank for more then five minutes, evacuate the area, and wait for it to either burn itself out, or BLEVE. We live with LP and it's many uses at home, and it's safe enough, right. I've seen first hand what the tank from a gas grill can do to a house. Wasn't much left. Now think about the size of the tank on say a utility truck. Picture an instant fireball engulfing everything within 150 ft. <br /><br />Most folks just don't have a clue just how dangerous compressed gasses can be. Diesel is the safest IC fuel, with it's high flash point, and slow rate of Evaporation. If I didn't suffer from brain fade at times, I could remember the name of the company with the latest diesel fuel hybrid. It's a bit more money then the regular diesel, but has far less polutants, and is a blend of diesel, and organic oils. Regular diesel is far cleaner then gas to start, so this stuff, and future products could actually be part of the answer. <br /><br />The HAZMAT instructor I spoke of was Chief Warren Isman, of Fairfax VA, who teaches world wide.