GoSkins561 Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 This was an email message I recieved, I think it puts it(the iraqi prison abuse scandal) into perspective. I to do not agree with what happened to the Iraqi prisoners, however I also think there is no reason to apologize. This is certainly no reason to for some people to try to get political gain either. NO OUTCRY... These are not my words but they are certainly expressing some of my feelings. Couldn't have said it better myself: I am not condoning what happened to the Iraqi prisoners... however, I think it is vitally important that in my head I have these matters in proper perspective... * Saddam had Iraqi men, women and children put to death in human meat grinders on a daily basis... THERE WAS NO OUTCRY FROM THE IRAQI PEOPLE OR THE ARAB COMMUNITY... * Saddam had people thrown off of 3 - 4 story buildings, while their relatives were forced to watch... THERE WAS NO OUTCRY FROM THE IRAQI PEOPLE OR THE ARAB COMMUNITY... * Saddam had people's tongues cut out, limbs chopped off, and even beheaded, while their families were forced to watch.. THERE WAS NO OUTCRY FROM THE IRAQI PEOPLE OR THE ARAB COMMUNITY... * Saddam's sons, as well as other Administrators and military personnel raped and sodomized Iraqi girls, some as young as 8 years old, on a daily basis... THERE WAS NO OUTCRY FROM THE IRAQI PEOPLE OR THE ARAB COMMUNITY... * Saddam's regime indiscriminately put to death millions of Iraqi citizens on a daily basis, during the term of his brutal dictatorship, as evidenced by the mass graves recently uncovered in various parts of Iraq... THERE WAS NO OUTCRY FROM THE IRAQI PEOPLE OR THE ARAB COMMUNITY... * Terrorists recently exploded several car bombs in Baghdad, killing 17 innocent Iraqi children and several dozen innocent Iraqi citizens... THERE IS NO OUTCRY FROM THE IRAQI PEOPLE OR THE ARAB COMMUNITY... * Terrorists have been killing American/Coalition soldiers on a daily basis since we sent our troops, many of whom gave their lives on Iraqi soil, using US taxpayer dollars to liberate the Iraqi people... THERE IS NO OUTCRY FROM THE IRAQI PEOPLE OR THE ARAB COMMUNITY... * Four Americans were killed in Fallujah, their bodies were burned, mutilated, drug through the streets and hung on a bridge...while Iraqi people cheered and stoned the bodies... THERE IS NO OUTCRY FROM THE IRAQI PEOPLE OR THE ARAB COMMUNITY... AND NOW, A FEW IRAQI PRISONERS HAVE BEEN HUMILIATED ... A PAIR OF WOMEN'S UNDERWEAR PUT ON THE PRISONERS HEADS, A FEW NAKED PHOTOGRAPHS... AND THE IRAQI PEOPLE AND THE ENTIRE ARAB COMMUNITY GO BALLISTIC... GIVE ME A BREAK!!! As I said, I don't condone what happened to the prisoners ... but until the Iraqis and the Arab Community get their act together I wish the American news elite and certain elected Senators would stop being part of the problem and stop using this story to benefit political campaigns when in actuality they are aiding and comforting the enemy! I DON'T WANT MY PRESIDENT TO APOLOGIZE TO THE ARABS FOR ANYTHING! WE ARE AT WAR! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afparent Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 I agree and I believe our government agrees also, however, publicly we have to take the high road. Too sensitive right now. When this is all over, no one is going to be talking about the prison debacle. What about Lt Col West? He fired a gun near an Iraqi prisoner to get information that would save American lives and he was disciplined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 I DON'T WANT MY PRESIDENT TO APOLOGIZE TO THE ARABS FOR ANYTHING! WE ARE AT WAR! When did we declare war on Arabs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSkins561 Posted June 2, 2004 Author Share Posted June 2, 2004 Originally posted by Destino When did we declare war on Arabs? It doesnt say we declared war on the Arabs does it?:doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSkins561 Posted June 2, 2004 Author Share Posted June 2, 2004 Originally posted by afparent I agree and I believe our government agrees also, however, publicly we have to take the high road. Too sensitive right now. When this is all over, no one is going to be talking about the prison debacle. What about Lt Col West? He fired a gun near an Iraqi prisoner to get information that would save American lives and he was disciplined. Whatever it takes, I think if he had to chop one toe off at a time it would be okay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 OTOH, Saddam didn't claim that his moral superiority gave him the right to conquer our country to liberate us from our President, the monster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSkins561 Posted June 2, 2004 Author Share Posted June 2, 2004 Originally posted by Larry OTOH, Saddam didn't claim that his moral superiority gave him the right to conquer our country to liberate us from our President, the monster. Moral Superiority conerstone for GW. I cant say I agree with everything he does. However I can say I have seen him go against what the popular opinion is many times, why you might ask. Because he believes in his morals and makes his decisions based on what he has said and believes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinInsite Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 Moral Superiority - hey what we did isn't as bad as the other guy, so it's all good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chomerics Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 Originally posted by GoSkins561 This was an email message I recieved, I think it puts it(the iraqi prison abuse scandal) into perspective. I to do not agree with what happened to the Iraqi prisoners, however I also think there is no reason to apologize. This is certainly no reason to for some people to try to get political gain either. NO OUTCRY... These are not my words but they are certainly expressing some of my feelings. Couldn't have said it better myself: I am not condoning what happened to the Iraqi prisoners... however, I think it is vitally important that in my head I have these matters in proper perspective... * Saddam had Iraqi men, women and children put to death in human meat grinders on a daily basis... THERE WAS NO OUTCRY FROM THE IRAQI PEOPLE OR THE ARAB COMMUNITY... No, there wasn't there an outcry from us, his ally while alot of this crap was going on. If the Iraqis perched an outcry he's have killed them, they chose the wise course and kept quiet. We kept quiet for other reasons, but we still turned a blind eye. * Saddam had people thrown off of 3 - 4 story buildings, while their relatives were forced to watch... THERE WAS NO OUTCRY FROM THE IRAQI PEOPLE OR THE ARAB COMMUNITY... * Saddam had people's tongues cut out, limbs chopped off, and even beheaded, while their families were forced to watch.. THERE WAS NO OUTCRY FROM THE IRAQI PEOPLE OR THE ARAB COMMUNITY... * Saddam's sons, as well as other Administrators and military personnel raped and sodomized Iraqi girls, some as young as 8 years old, on a daily basis... THERE WAS NO OUTCRY FROM THE IRAQI PEOPLE OR THE ARAB COMMUNITY... * Saddam's regime indiscriminately put to death millions of Iraqi citizens on a daily basis, during the term of his brutal dictatorship, as evidenced by the mass graves recently uncovered in various parts of Iraq... THERE WAS NO OUTCRY FROM THE IRAQI PEOPLE OR THE ARAB COMMUNITY... See above reasoning. All valid and the Arab community was against Hussen. * Terrorists recently exploded several car bombs in Baghdad, killing 17 innocent Iraqi children and several dozen innocent Iraqi citizens... THERE IS NO OUTCRY FROM THE IRAQI PEOPLE OR THE ARAB COMMUNITY... I guess you don't read the newspaper or watch TV because where are the people condoning this? They are against this crap, but they also feel that the Americans brought this to them. There were no car bombs going on while Saddam was in power. iraq was a MUCH safer place during Saddams ruling then ours, you can ask the average Iraqi citizen that question and you'll almost certainly get a unanimous answer. * Terrorists have been killing American/Coalition soldiers on a daily basis since we sent our troops, many of whom gave their lives on Iraqi soil, using US taxpayer dollars to liberate the Iraqi people... THERE IS NO OUTCRY FROM THE IRAQI PEOPLE OR THE ARAB COMMUNITY... And when did the Iraqis ask us to liberate them from this brutal dictator? * Four Americans were killed in Fallujah, their bodies were burned, mutilated, drug through the streets and hung on a bridge...while Iraqi people cheered and stoned the bodies... THERE IS NO OUTCRY FROM THE IRAQI PEOPLE OR THE ARAB COMMUNITY... There actually was, you just failed to listen. AND NOW, A FEW IRAQI PRISONERS HAVE BEEN HUMILIATED ... A PAIR OF WOMEN'S UNDERWEAR PUT ON THE PRISONERS HEADS, A FEW NAKED PHOTOGRAPHS... AND THE IRAQI PEOPLE AND THE ENTIRE ARAB COMMUNITY GO BALLISTIC... GIVE ME A BREAK!!! Again, we aren't talking about a fag pile with Iraqi prisoners wearing underpants, we're talking about a systemic problem from the top down. We're talking about raping people, beating people and murder. Let's not try to make light of the abuse by showing it off as a fraternity prank, this was torturous abuse which was condoned by our military. This is rape, murder and torture we're talking about, not fag piles and guys wearing womens panties. As I said, I don't condone what happened to the prisoners ... but until the Iraqis and the Arab Community get their act together I wish the American news elite and certain elected Senators would stop being part of the problem and stop using this story to benefit political campaigns when in actuality they are aiding and comforting the enemy! I DON'T WANT MY PRESIDENT TO APOLOGIZE TO THE ARABS FOR ANYTHING! WE ARE AT WAR! We were the ones that were liberating the Iraqis, Bush put us on the high ground weather you like it or not. We are now handcuffed because of our actions and it put us at a tremendous disadvantage. Instead of blaming the Arabs and other factions, why not look at the root of the problem, faulty leadership in the US. We claimed to be liberating the Iraqis, we put ourselves on the high ground. Now, when we're caught raping, torturing and murdering POWs you want to blame everyone but the US. This isn't a political debate, but a moral one. When you invade a country for humanitarian reasons (supposedly) and then you're found to be commiting similar atrocious acts in the same prison Saddam was, you loose your credibility not only at home, but in the entire worlds opinion. It's time to start looking at the real problem. . . Bush and his Administration instead of blaming everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSkins561 Posted June 2, 2004 Author Share Posted June 2, 2004 Originally posted by SkinInsite Moral Superiority - hey what we did isn't as bad as the other guy, so it's all good. That is why we went their in the first place, to stop the atrocities. I would place the blame on our media outlets and Al Jezeera who are on a mission to see the George Bush fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chomerics Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 Originally posted by GoSkins561 Moral Superiority conerstone for GW. I cant say I agree with everything he does. However I can say I have seen him go against what the popular opinion is many times, why you might ask. Because he believes in his morals and makes his decisions based on what he has said and believes. So you think invading Iraq was a decision based on moral values? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 Originally posted by GoSkins561 It doesnt say we declared war on the Arabs does it?:doh: Nope but it certainly implies it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 Originally posted by GoSkins561 That is why we went their in the first place, to stop the atrocities. I would place the blame on our media outlets and Al Jezeera who are on a mission to see the George Bush fail. Blame for what exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinInsite Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 Originally posted by GoSkins561 That is why we went their in the first place, to stop the atrocities. I would place the blame on our media outlets and Al Jezeera who are on a mission to see the George Bush fail. No, we went to Iraq because our governemnt percieved them as a threat to aid terroist attack against America. If we really want to stop atrocities then we should have started in Africa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 Originally posted by GoSkins561 Whatever it takes, I think if he had to chop one toe off at a time it would be okay. You support toture? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSkins561 Posted June 2, 2004 Author Share Posted June 2, 2004 Chomerics, All i can say is i strongly disagree. The majority of the Iraqi people are excited about being liberated. The problem is the terrorist are trying to make thier lives a living hell because they want freedom. Car bombs are still going off and will being going off for a long time, it is our job to work with the Iraqis and the new government to make the situation right, and we will. We are not going to leave them hanging, Iraq will be a great country. Even a smart guy like yourself should realize that something like this is going to take time and isnt going to happen overnight. Your blinders are blocking your view of the big picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSkins561 Posted June 2, 2004 Author Share Posted June 2, 2004 Originally posted by Destino Blame for what exactly? Showing the pictures and saying that it was top brass that ordered the abuse of the iraqi prisoners, that hasnt been proven yet so therefore it should not be stated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSkins561 Posted June 2, 2004 Author Share Posted June 2, 2004 Originally posted by SkinInsite No, we went to Iraq because our governemnt percieved them as a threat to aid terroist attack against America. If we really want to stop atrocities then we should have started in Africa. That is fair enough from that perspective, did he not use chemical weapons against his own people, your right we also went to war with the guy because he failed to comply to 17 UN resolutions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 Originally posted by GoSkins561 Showing the pictures and saying that it was top brass that ordered the abuse of the iraqi prisoners, that hasnt been proven yet so therefore it should not be stated. Why wouldn't they report the abuses and the claims of the soliders there? Isn't the intent of "freedom of the press" to allow the press to report events the government may not want us to know about? BTW - the "top brass" thing wasn't a story made up by the press, the soldiers are claiming that and the press reported exactly that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins24 Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 Originally posted by chomerics I guess you don't read the newspaper or watch TV because where are the people condoning this? They are against this crap, but they also feel that the Americans brought this to them. There were no car bombs going on while Saddam was in power. iraq was a MUCH safer place during Saddams ruling then ours, you can ask the average Iraqi citizen that question and you'll almost certainly get a unanimous answer. ** There actually was, you just failed to listen. First part: :doh: Second part: I'll just say it's extremely ignorant if you think the one or two people who may have condemned what happened to those contractors were sincere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiebear Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 I support Torture of any Kind for the Leaders of Known Terrorist Groups. Not the people that are doing the work... Not anyone in uniform period.... If the Leaders of the Terrorist Groups put on a Uniform I would say not for them at that point also... Give me a reason why they shouldnt be tortured and made to tell us what the next Sarin Gas attack in Giants Stadium. Or a Dirty Bomb on 3 different side streets in LA... Or the Eifel Tower / Golden Gate Bridge etc.. etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXREDSKINS44 Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 Man that is a great email!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 sad that after abusing those guys......they have let a nice chunk of them go free. "Sorry.........we THOUGHT you were terrorists.......sorry about the ass raping and pictures.....it was ND and Sarge's idea" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinInsite Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 Originally posted by GoSkins561 That is fair enough from that perspective, did he not use chemical weapons against his own people, your right we also went to war with the guy because he failed to comply to 17 UN resolutions. What about the 2 million sudanese who died as a direct cause of their government policies? Where's the outcry for the millions of people who died in the Congo. Because those countries matter little on the world stage and offer little threat to us. So ignore them. A single death is a tragedy; a million deaths is a statistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSkins561 Posted June 2, 2004 Author Share Posted June 2, 2004 Originally posted by SkinInsite What about the 2 million sudanese who died as a direct cause of their government policies? Where's the outcry for the millions of people who died in the Congo. Because those countries matter little on the world stage and offer little threat to us. So ignore them. A single death is a tragedy; a million deaths is a statistic. I think it is all horrible, however these leaders from what I know are not invading other countries. Sadam differentiated himself by invading Kuwait and put Iraq in the spot light. He showed that not only was he going to torture kill and mame his own people but he was going to do the same throughtout the middle east if no one would have stopped him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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