Burgold Posted April 25, 2004 Share Posted April 25, 2004 Here's the thing. I liked that we picked up Portis, Brunnell, Barrows, Taylor and Cooley. I don't have a problem with what any of those people bring to the table and think each of them makes us better... but, I think that none of these picks were truly needs. They were all wants. They were things we wanted and will help, but don't address our more serious deficiencies. Stopping the run and getting to the qb. We got Barrows because we decided to cut ties with Trotter and poor Kevin Mitchell just never gets a shot. Will Barrows get to the qb? Will he stop the run significantly better than the guys he is replacing? We picked up Brunnell because Gibbs likes to have two good qb's and he likes a veteran, but we had at minimum a serviceable qb situation. Is this situation loads better than what we have before. Yes. Was it a necessary move and did we overpay if it was not a necessary move. Taylor... I may have blinders on, but I thought our safeties were okay, not great, but good enough (if we could increase pressure and scheme better.) Cooley, I have no problems with, but he is again more of a want pick. We have two or three guys who are competing for that job and just signed another right before the draft. We got Portis... okay, this may have been a need, but Betts/Candidate were not actually that bad when Spurrier used them. Were they a victim of blocking schemes and disuse. This move like the others is undeniably an upgrade, but should it have been the first move? The only need move we made was Springs, because we needed to have a replacement for Champ. Our needs really were in stopping the run and pressuring the qb. A free safety is not the guy you want to be stopping the run, because if he does you've been gashed. The only needs we addressed is cornerback and that we did with someone who is a clear downgrade (according to the experts) We are completely reliant on blitzing to pressure the qb and completely reliant that Noble makes a full recovery from what many predicted to be a career ending injury to hold the running game. Griffen and Note: Barrows could be considered a need in this case, but with really poor lineplay linebackers seem to get neutralized. Griffins and Daniels addition could be said to be the Redskins effort to address that need. Is anyone satisfied with that? I think Griffin was a good pick up. That gives us one D linemen. Upshaw is hopefully average. Wynn is below average. Noble... is a question mark. Haley is below average. Lining up Arrington and Washington at ends eliminates the blitzing advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzzlightbeer81 Posted April 25, 2004 Share Posted April 25, 2004 Well I believe that Taylor was a need move, because we did lose champ and now with taylor the smoot springs taylor tandem is stronger then last years. This also means that we will not require as much linebacker help covering, and with strong linebackers then last year Arrington will be available to attack the run and the qb more. Offensivly, canidate sucked. The hope there was that hes fast so if he broke into the open field hed gain big yards, but he was never good enough do it. Portis is an undeniable threat, teams MUST plan to stop him which will open up our passing. Our Dline is also better then it was last year. Its not carolina good, but its imporved with our new additions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted April 25, 2004 Author Share Posted April 25, 2004 That's the thing, buzz. I can't really complain about any of the players. I think each of those players are good and your argument is valid. However, I've seen us have a backfield of Champ, Darrell, and Deion and just be okay in pass coverage. I've seen us with Champ and Smoot and Darrell and be barely passable in coverage. Last year, especially the last eight games we were abysmal in coverage and stopping opponents. The common factor is very good coverage and not enough pressure. Even when we were in the top 5 and ten in defense a few years ago... it was illusory. How many times did we lose the game in the fourth despite an all world secondary. How many times were we unable to make the stop when we had to have it. You have to stop the run and you have to harrass the qb and can't be one dimensional. That is my worry when it comes to having a great backfield and believing... well, we can always blitz. by the way, I hope I am wrong and I may be because as I said, the pickups are good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfdc Posted April 25, 2004 Share Posted April 25, 2004 We aren't done yet. First of all, the draft isn't over and unless you have an elite DT pick in the particular part of the first round (We tried, but so did a lot of other teams, but someone else got them - yet none warranted moving from the #5 spot -NONE). That tells me, that Joe Gibbs and Gregg Williams are right on waiting until the later rounds, even if we don't think so, based on what they can do as coaches. Also, the FA moves still remain for a possible fit, that isn't even mentioned yet or even a trade, once some teams start to unload a player that fits us well enough to make our line awfully tough. We just didn't have a boat load of picks, but the Cooley scoop is better than it looks. Gibbs rotates TE's (Warren, Walker, Didier) were the main three, but a fourth was also a FB and used on ST and certain plays, either goal line, like Warren. This DOES eliminate even looking for both a FB and TE at the same time. Cooley has more experience than them playing "H-Back", which Gibbs will deploy. As for the DT sweepstakes for what's left, walk ons, undrafted, and after June 1, it will cost us less, but with these two guys, we learn why they are considered to be as good as they are at coaching people. You and I will be amazed at what they will do when fill these gaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Posted April 25, 2004 Share Posted April 25, 2004 Folks, when it comes to the Dline, people are missing the point. Coach Williams defense is a misdirection/overload defense. It is meant to cause confusion on the Oline to miss blocks. Coach Williams does not live on the basic 4 vs 5 that we have been used too where our 2 DTs have to try and get pressure through the C and 2 Gs and our ends are stuck 1 on 1 vs the OTs. We need to understand a bit more about what Coach is doing before announcing that we have not done the right things in the draft. Plus, its not over yet. Lets wait and see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kappaluvacee Posted April 25, 2004 Share Posted April 25, 2004 I think each move the FO has made since season end addressed a team need. 1. Coaching - Gibbs is back. 2. Personnel - We resigned each player we made restricted FA's and traded the one that would have killed our CAP. We've brought in quality FA to help this team. We're weeding out overpaid non-contributors (Trotter). 3. Draft day 1 addressed the secondary needs, and traded to address the TE position. We also acquired Brunell in the third round and Portis in the second round. They provide a leading rusher and a quality QB for competition at that the spot. We can't fix all our problems on one day at the draft. We made our team much improved. The FO is on fire right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H@iL2Gibb$ Posted April 25, 2004 Share Posted April 25, 2004 Originally posted by kappaluvacee We can't fix all our problems on one day at the draft. Exactly! We'll just wait for one of the Jets' DE next year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzzlightbeer81 Posted April 25, 2004 Share Posted April 25, 2004 Burgold, I agree with your concernsmy best friend has been preaching that same thing at me all year. It wopuld be nice to improve the front 4. Im hoping that even if we dont do anyhting, our defense will be improved because maybe they wont be on the field as much now that we have an offense. I felt our d started strong and got tired, losing games in the fourth quarter when they are dead and our offense has under performed. That being said, i saw this guy still available: http://www.otcdraft.com/news/articles/IsaacSopoaga.php what do u think about him, maybe we should make another move to get him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bredskin Posted April 25, 2004 Share Posted April 25, 2004 Burgold- I think you're going to fing that Barrow is a huge upgrade at Middle LB. Trotter was a finesse player that ran around blocks. Barrow will go through them. The dline is not strong, but with the right scheme and keeping the offense off guard, it can be adequate. We fixed a lot in this off season. You didn't think we were going to win the super bowl did you? let's aim for a playoff win and go from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted April 25, 2004 Author Share Posted April 25, 2004 I like his weight lifting and strength. How was he on the field? Is he a work out wonder or a player? A five second forty time doesn't sound too horrible to me for a d tackle. I plead ignorance as far as knowing about his motor, will, technique. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince62 Posted April 25, 2004 Share Posted April 25, 2004 Utah....will that work against a brute force O-line with a power running back? the sort of O that says..."go ahead, jump around...we're going to knock you on your arses anyway at 4-5 yards a clip...." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted April 25, 2004 Author Share Posted April 25, 2004 bredskin, Every year I think we're going to the Superbowl or at least that we should do our darndest to try. Realistically, I actually am thinking this will be an 8-8 or 9-7 type of year. Not because of the d-line, but because of the offense. I think it will take Joe 3-4 games to knock the rust off of his playcalling. Since, I don't think the d will be dominant this year I have worries about the early part of the season. Once Gibbs gets back in rhythm... I don't think he's lost his x's and o's, or mind for the game, but I think his feel for the game needs to be resharpened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzzlightbeer81 Posted April 25, 2004 Share Posted April 25, 2004 well he had like 30 sacks or something? I watched him a little in a Hawaii game last year and he looked like a beast, but I dont know the level of the competition he was against. I beleive he is considered a top pick of the remaining draftees Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted April 25, 2004 Author Share Posted April 25, 2004 sounds like a good choice... now, if we could just put a few dozen well placed mickey's in some general managers morning coffees and they just happen to fall asleep and lose their place in the draft. We'll be set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dark Horse Posted April 25, 2004 Share Posted April 25, 2004 Did anyone ever to ponder why defensive linemen fell so far in this draft compared to drafts of years past? Perhaps it's because the draft class *stinks* if you're in the defensive line market. I've said it a million times and I'll say it again. You don't turn down an franchise player when you can get them. Smile, we got the best defensive player in the entire draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
citigent Posted April 25, 2004 Share Posted April 25, 2004 dline was/is a need but it wasn't the only need. you have to take in account we did upgrade the dline some this year. i don't think the dline project is a one year deal, i expect for attention shown to it next year also. you cant fill every single need in one year exspecially when switching coaches with such different coaching princables. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernie5 Posted April 25, 2004 Share Posted April 25, 2004 Taylor was an enormous need move -- especially in the NFC East with big guys like Shockey, Owens, Whitten, Bryant, and Toomer about. He gives both your defensive backfield and the middle of your D instant credibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted April 25, 2004 Share Posted April 25, 2004 You can't be serious? After this entire offseason and draft, where several if not everyone is finally labeling us as a serious contender, you're still complaining?! COMPLAINING?!?! :hammer: Give me a break with this crap. The only hole we have left is a great pass rushing DE, and I wouldn't be suprized at all if we traded our first rounder next year to get Ogunleye. Not at all. This has to be a joke, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernie5 Posted April 25, 2004 Share Posted April 25, 2004 People love to whine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimster Posted April 25, 2004 Share Posted April 25, 2004 you need bricks to build a house - we're getting all our bricks together. in a couple of months the roof goes on:cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kleese Posted April 25, 2004 Share Posted April 25, 2004 Taylor... I may have blinders on, but I thought our safeties were okay, not great, but good enough (if we could increase pressure and scheme better.) I think our safeties were FAR below average and an underrated reason why our defense hasn't produced lately. I can live with Bowen OR Ohalete, but as a combo they aren't good. Taylor WAS a need pick. No doubt, our most glaring need was a DE/pass rusher. I actually think the DT's are OK, but I agree that end is a weakness, although slightly better than last year. But do you take a solid DE prospect or a potential star at safety? Hopefully, we won't have many more high picks, and this may be our last shot at a true superstar for quite awhile. Taylor was rated by some as the best player in the draft, while the DL prospects seemed average at best-- especially the ends. Don't forget, Washington will be used as a pass rusher. I think that's the main reason we swapped him for Armstead. I understand the basic philosophy of wanting to build the DL. But I think the gap was too wide in this case to pass up Taylor. Good pick. VERY smart off-season so far, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernie5 Posted April 25, 2004 Share Posted April 25, 2004 DE was not a position of strength in this year's draft. Once it was revealed that Udeze might need shoulder surgery, the decision away from DE in the 1st probably became somewhat easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Diggler Posted April 25, 2004 Share Posted April 25, 2004 Burgold Bowen and Ohalete are both true in-the-box strong safeties. Taylor is a prototype FS. In Marvin Lewis or Tony Dungy's defense, a true FS is not a need. In Greg Williams defense, it most certainly is a need. In fact, it is a MUST have with all the bump and run we will play on the outside. We just hit the freakin jackpot yesterday so quit yer whinin son. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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