monarch34 Posted April 20, 2004 Share Posted April 20, 2004 Q.1: if we had traded our 2nd round pick to Cincy for Dillon and either still had Champ, or if we couldn't resign him, then trading him for someone else's 1st and/or 2nd round picks? In other words, is Portis so much better than Dillon (if he is at all) that foregoing the add'l compensation we could have gotten for Champ was worth it? Q.2: if we had waited and signed Warner as a FA rather than trading a draft pick (5th?) for Brunell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KirkNC Posted April 20, 2004 Share Posted April 20, 2004 No No I am very happy with both moves the team made in aquiring Brunell and Portis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrfriedm Posted April 20, 2004 Share Posted April 20, 2004 Well to address the second question first, absolutly not!:doh: As a fan who still scratches his head over the Burnell deal, Warner is in no way better, worth more, or even worth anything. I would've rathered the skins to have given Jacksonville Ramsey, and the entire 2004 draft fro Brunell, then for us to give a fifth round pick for Warner.:hammer: As far as the Portis/Dillion question, I orginially thought that we would go after either Dillion or Staley. Obviously, I was wrong. However, I do think that Portis while in the same mold as dillion, is overly concerned about his stats, and his paycheck, is a better talent player who has a few extra years in him than Dillion. Remember this is Portis's 3rd season, while Dillion is going into his 6th (I'm guessing I don't know for sure how many years he's been in the league, but he's been around longer than Portis). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long n Left Posted April 20, 2004 Share Posted April 20, 2004 Brunell is worlds better than Warner, IMHO. More mobile, and he's the NFL's 9th all-time rated passer. I think the NFL figured out that by blitzing Warner all-out you can disrupt his rythym, and force turnovers. If Brunell stays healthy, I think he'll be a welcome addition in D.C. for the next 2-3 years. While I still scratch my head at giving up the 2nd round pick with Champ, at least the Skins got a bona fide, proven NFL superstar in return. Draft picks are a crap shoot...even top picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrapeApe Posted April 20, 2004 Share Posted April 20, 2004 Dillon is going into his 8th year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrfriedm Posted April 20, 2004 Share Posted April 20, 2004 Originally posted by GrapeApe Dillon is going into his 8th year. See I wasn't that far off :point2sky::wavetowel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
galentjm Posted April 20, 2004 Share Posted April 20, 2004 Warner has lost whatever magic he had in him when the Rams were making runs to the super bowl. And under no scenario would I rather take a 29 (i.e. 1 year from the dreaded 30 barrier) disgruntled head case, over a 22 year playmaking superstar at RB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riggins44 Posted April 20, 2004 Share Posted April 20, 2004 Dillon has talent, but with his character and attitude he doesn't fit into Gibb's plan. Brunell is far better than Warner. Warner had couple of good years and since has fallen off. You can't blame all of Warner's problems on injury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottb Posted April 20, 2004 Share Posted April 20, 2004 I would have gone for Dillon and kept Champ. However, the fact still remains that Champ didn't want to play here and decisions had to be made in order to proceed. I don't think the FO wanted to wait until the stars aligned right before the draft to implement their plans. Furthermore, Gibbs targets specific players to play and interface within his system. Talent is not the sole determination on who wears the burgundy and gold. I think he is happy with the results to date Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monarch34 Posted April 20, 2004 Author Share Posted April 20, 2004 All of these are good points of view, but I think some are missing the fine point (apparently too fine) that I was trying to get at. Its not whether Portis is better than Dillon, its whether Portis is better than Dillon PLUS whatever compensation Champ could have brought in a straight up trade. What's a multi-time all-pro worth when he is considered the best cover corner in the league? Is that a 1st rounder, or a 2nd rounder or some combo. of picks? Who could we have gotten to fill that slot? Alternatively, could we have traded Champ for another veteran all-pro or highly promising young player at another position of need and thus filled two needs rather than just one. I think Portis is better than Dillon, but is he better than Dillon-PLUS. To me, that is the interesting question. As for Brunell being better than Warner, this analysis is tougher because a 5th rounder isn't quite the same deal as what we gave up for Portis. However, if you believe that Warner is truly healthy and is willing to be a backup in the right situation, then maybe he is better outright and in conjunction with having a 5th rounder back, that would have been the better way to go. Although this may be one that only hindsight 6 months from now would tell us the true answer (and I now that would an unfair way to judge today's roster moves), but I still thought it worth pondering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJCrash34 Posted April 20, 2004 Share Posted April 20, 2004 I like the moves we made. Dillon had problems with the Bengals due to his attitude and butting heads with management, while I don't recall hearing anything like that about portis aside from him wanting more money this year from denver, 2, warner is at the end of his career as is brunell, but brunell had a lenghty stellar career, while warner only had 4 or 5 good seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fwo40 Posted April 20, 2004 Share Posted April 20, 2004 Dillion and Warner are both guys on the downside of their careers. Even in New England it should be hard for Dillion to spend the entire season healthy. Warner is a disaster...he is finished in this league....I mean he may hang around a few more seasons as a backup....but he will never awe anyone again. He's a poor man's Chris Chandler at this point..... Now I'm not sold on Brunell...especially his health....but he'd almost have to be better than Warner by default. Portis vs Dillion at this stage in their careers is a landside for Portis. Portis is so young...and already he is so productive...he will give us years of rushing power. Dillion, even if he managed to produce would give us a season or two at best....and then over those one or two seasons we'd be watching Portis out perform him anyway. Champ wasn't staying...and since Denver (one of the few teams who had the cap room to take on his monster contract) wasn't even satisfied with getting him w/o picking up a #2...you can bet we'd have been hard pressed to get both a #1 and a #2 for him. When you look at it....we have the much better QB and RB out of these matchups Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurgensen4Prez Posted April 20, 2004 Share Posted April 20, 2004 Here's a point everyone has missed. What happens when come June, July and August, Ramsey is playing better then Brunnel and gets the starting job? Then we've wasted a LOT of money and a solid draft pick for a back-up quarterback. Granted I understand Gibb's logic in wanting to quality qb's on the squad but that seems like an awful lot to give up for a potential back up. -------------------------- "40 men together can never loose" -George Allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted April 20, 2004 Share Posted April 20, 2004 I'm uncomfortable with the trades we made... I think we gave up too much for Portis. It should have been an even trade or we should have gotten something... at worst, we should have given a low rounder up. Brunnell if that's the contract we were offering and Brunnell knew it, I think we could have leveraged a lower pick because Brunnell would know what offer teams had to beat even if he were eventually cut. That said, I'm not unhappy about having either player, but I don't think either deal was in our favor. We certainly got no steals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long n Left Posted April 20, 2004 Share Posted April 20, 2004 It's my understanding that the best offer the Skins had on the table for Champ, BEFORE the Broncos stepped up to the plate, was from the Jets, and had them giving the Skins their 1st round pick (#12 I think), Lamont Jordan, and Anthony Becht. All in all, I'd rather have Portis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mania Posted April 20, 2004 Share Posted April 20, 2004 Originally posted by jrfriedm Well to address the second question first, absolutly not!:doh: As a fan who still scratches his head over the Burnell deal, Warner is in no way better, worth more, or even worth anything. I would've rathered the skins to have given Jacksonville Ramsey, and the entire 2004 draft fro Brunell, then for us to give a fifth round pick for Warner.:hammer: As far as the Portis/Dillion question, I orginially thought that we would go after either Dillion or Staley. Obviously, I was wrong. However, I do think that Portis while in the same mold as dillion, is overly concerned about his stats, and his paycheck, is a better talent player who has a few extra years in him than Dillion. Remember this is Portis's 3rd season, while Dillion is going into his 6th (I'm guessing I don't know for sure how many years he's been in the league, but he's been around longer than Portis). Dillon is 30 or 31. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Symbol Posted April 20, 2004 Share Posted April 20, 2004 With Champ, the Redskins tried to get a draft pick package, no one bit. So the trade with Denver is perfect and yes I believe it is worth it. The only reason I say that picking Brunell over waiting for Warner, is the fact that if we waited, what happens if a) the Rams decided not to cut him... he decided to go to another team, say the Cowboys. Where would we be at then. We still have Ramsey, which I feel is a great place to be, but Coach Gibbs wants and needs to starting QB's in his system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted April 20, 2004 Share Posted April 20, 2004 Dillon is 29. I would have traded for him with the second round pick. Sent Champ to Detroit for their 6th overall pick. Then Drafted Taylor AND Winslow II. (or maybe traded down a couple of times to pick up some D linemen). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thinker Posted April 20, 2004 Share Posted April 20, 2004 Dillon will do very well for the Pats this year. but he has alot of miles on him. He really is, statistically the same as Stephen Davis. With rbs you just don't know when they are just going to lose it. He isn't going to be a long term solution, because only a few rbs keep their prodictivity after that many hits. Portis had a higher price but is so much younger and could give us 7 -10 years of pro-bowl play. Dillon has a couple more productive years left. Warner, I believe, never recovered from his concussions. In reality I think he probably won't ever be big time again. Also if you wait for June 1 for him to be cut, he misses 3 months of qb school and workout with Gibbs and is alot less likely to be able to learn the offense. The reason we paid the high price for Brunell is partly to get that position locked up VERY early in the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldskool Posted April 20, 2004 Share Posted April 20, 2004 1. NO. We could never have resigned Bailey. So even though we got swindled for a second round pick in the trade for Portis, it was the best way to rid ourselves of a bad situation. 2. NO. Warner would not have fit into Gibbs’ system as well as Brunell has/will/ought to. We had no idea that Warner was to be released so we couldn’t have planned for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rook Posted April 20, 2004 Share Posted April 20, 2004 Originally posted by Oldskool 1. NO. We could never have resigned Bailey. So even though we got swindled for a second round pick in the trade for Portis, it was the best way to rid ourselves of a bad situation. 2. NO. Warner would not have fit into Gibbs’ system as well as Brunell has/will/ought to. We had no idea that Warner was to be released so we couldn’t have planned for it. Agree completely. Too much bad blood between Champ and FO. As for Warner, he is 0-8 in his last 8 starts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monarch34 Posted April 20, 2004 Author Share Posted April 20, 2004 Originally posted by Long n Left It's my understanding that the best offer the Skins had on the table for Champ, BEFORE the Broncos stepped up to the plate, was from the Jets, and had them giving the Skins their 1st round pick (#12 I think), Lamont Jordan, and Anthony Becht. All in all, I'd rather have Portis This post helps me greatly to clarify my point. If we had made a trade with Cincy for Dillon, then we also could have had another first round pick (a reasonably high one) as well as a couple of other players. Would we rather have Dillon and, say, Udeze or Smith, or just Portis? Having taken care of a DE spot with the #12 pick, we still could have taken Taylor or KW at #5. I personally like Portis better than Dillon for many of the reasons shared in this thread, but I'm not at all sure I like him better so much that I would not have preferred the package listed above. Thus, EVEN IF Champ wouldn't resign with us, we still could have traded him for a better overall package in a pair of trades with Cincy and NYJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manichispanic Posted April 20, 2004 Share Posted April 20, 2004 Originally posted by GrapeApe Dillon is going into his 8th year. exactly, there probably isnt a HUGE difference, but there will be in 4 years.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Redskin Posted April 20, 2004 Share Posted April 20, 2004 maybe I'm misreading this but it seems like people are saying we traded a 5th rounder for brunell. it was our 3rd rounder if im not mistaken. also I have not seen mention of jeff garcia, we could have signed him as a backup or to challenge for the starting job and not lost any picks. with this being said I'm am very happy to have portis and brunell aboard. now lets see what happens this weekend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panel Posted April 20, 2004 Share Posted April 20, 2004 Maybe, you never know though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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